Future UND/ Bison football Game

[FSSD]

We both should have moved with UNI, Montana, Montana State, etc., in the 70's, and yes we should have moved together in 2003. We are where we are and we have to deal with it.

 

I am in complete agreement.

[FSSD]

Did his dog crap on your porch or something? Maybe you were on the team and you didn't get to play. Not sure what you want to hear. Mussman didn't get the job done. A lot of hs coaches and alums felt he was aloof and not approachable. There seemed to be some improvement and we changed presidents and we changed AD's. If Kelly was here all along or Faison was here all along it may have been different but it isn't. People on this board don't make these decisions unless you count gfhockey and he makes all of the decisions Monday mornings at the truck stop with his " good ole boys". If it makes you happy he would have lasted 4 yrs and 3 mo at the AC. What else do you want to say about him. I don't think he is a bad guy and he left without bad mouthing the program. His kid is a prospect at this level, maybe higher if he continues to improve. I hope we get a shot at him and I hope Mussman does well wherever he is. If that isn't good enough get out to the truck stop Mon AM and look for a guy with blood shot eyes, and a 3 day hangover. He can answer your questions better than any of us if you buy him a cup of coffee and the truckers special.

 

I am also in agreement on the Mussman crap that is getting kicked around on this forum.  Was he able to get the job done - no.  Lets move on people.

[FSSD]

SDSU not winning FBS games can be attributed to their schedule.  holy crap, they've played murderer's row when it comes to FBS games compared to UND and NDSU.     NE (2), MO, IL, KS etc, etc.   Not going to knock SDSU, they've played great teams tough as shown again by their game at MO this week.   Not too many WY, SJ, Fresno's for Ball States on SDSU's schedule.

 

Agreed, I was not taking a shot at SDSU.  I was simply saying that you can be a very successful FCS program without a FBS win - that is all.

[Siouxphan27]

Hey, the Summit wanted you/needed you. If you would have joined the Summit, the other Summit teams would have been your support and ticket to join the MVFC, and quickly. You would be in the MVFC right now, no doubt about that.

Over and over I hear . . . "The MVFC would not take us". Idiots, all you had to do was join the Summit, and the offer would have come quickly. Hey, maybe you are happier in the BSC . . . if so, good for you, but please don't whine about the MVFC not inviting you, all you had to do was join the Summit.

If my post ignites another round of Summit bashing, then so be it. Check the Summit sagarin vs. the BSC. A little more Summit bashig will hopefully keep you in the BSC and out of the MVFC for a few more recruting cycles . . . ha, ha. Honestly, your FB is not better off in the BSC.

Is that why the Summit held an emergency conference call to quickly offer USD but not UND, when they caught wind both USD and UND were going to be offered spots in the Big Sky?

The effort on the part of ndsu to keep UND out of the conference was quite obvious. But, if your revisionist history works for you, then go with it.

[zonadub]

Hey, the Summit wanted you/needed you. If you would have joined the Summit, the other Summit teams would have been your support and ticket to join the MVFC, and quickly. You would be in the MVFC right now, no doubt about that.

Over and over I hear . . . "The MVFC would not take us". Idiots, all you had to do was join the Summit, and the offer would have come quickly. Hey, maybe you are happier in the BSC . . . if so, good for you, but please don't whine about the MVFC not inviting you, all you had to do was join the Summit.

If my post ignites another round of Summit bashing, then so be it. Check the Summit sagarin vs. the BSC. A little more Summit bashig will hopefully keep you in the BSC and out of the MVFC for a few more recruting cycles . . . ha, ha. Honestly, your FB is not better off in the BSC.

USD was a Summit member for what, 2 years, before they got an invitation to the MVFC? And only then to stop the Coyotes from joining UND in the Big Sky? The Great West was dead. The MVFC showed no sign of admitting UND or USD at the time. Vivitero commented that USD was admitted BECAUSE when UND was admitted to the Big Sky, they decided they could invite USD without having to invite North Dakota at the same time (and the unspoken reason was to keep the Big Sky out of the MVFC footprint). The Summit without a football conference would have been a worse death for UND football than two more years of Mussman. On top of that, Douple was not supportive and still has shown no reason to be trusted.

The Summit could become NCC 2.0 -NDSU, USD, SDSU, UNO (before they dropped football) if they were able to entice UND and threaten to break off from the MVFC and form their own Summit football conference. UND would be the fifth school, and then adding someone like Northern Colorado or getting, for example, Minnesota State Mankato, St Cloud or Minnesota Duluth to move up would give the Summit the sixth member to form a conference, but that does not seem to be Douple's vision either, if he has a vision of the future which at this time seems doubtful. He seems to be more reactive than proactive, while Fullerton has vision and knows where he wants the Big Sky to be positioned when the Power 5 make their move and is preparing the Big Sky for that eventuality. Whether you agree with SiouxVolley's analysis or not, the Big Sky will not be caught flat-footed when this realignment happens. And it certainly appears that it is much more likely to happen than not.

Personally I would have liked to see certain schools come together and join Idaho and New Mexico State a couple of years ago, but the timing was not right. I think a conference of those two along with the Montana's, Dakotas, Idaho St, Eastern Washington, maybe even Northern Colorado, Northern Iowa, Weber and Wyoming (but know they would not be interested) along with maybe Denver and Seattle for non-football sports would have been great. In reality, the South Dakota's are going nowhere -they have such a sweet deal with the Summit bb tournament. Wyoming is not leaving the MW, UNI will not leave the MVC, and too many of the Big Sky schools were not ready to make the transition, including UND.

I believe a very telling fact of what is going to happen in the next few years is Idaho including in their conference affiliation contract that they can refuse entry into the Big Sky if Montana, Montana State or NORTH DAKOTA is no longer a member of the Big Sky. That is a huge endorsement of a school that has been a member of a 50 year old conference for only two years. I think it is more than amazing that UND was one of 3 schools in a 13 member conference to be specifically named as an integral member of the conference. I don't know if SiouxVolley has some kind of earpiece or if he has a prediction with no basis whatsoever, but his posts have insight into things going on that the rest of us do not.

Maybe NDSU is not getting ready to ask the Big Sky for affiliation, as SiouxVolley says. I don't think the football games are any sign of the Bison wanting to make nicey-nice with UND or the Big Sky. If that was the case, it would have been a home and home. It more probably was a product of having more-or-less saved the 2015 date in the calendar until it is almost too late and Faison and Schweigert calling Taylor's bluff while NDSU was in transition. I think UND had more leverage than they used and could have pushed more for a more equitable contract, but there might be a method to UND's madness. After watching the games this past weekend, NDSU is still way ahead of UND on the field, and probably will be in 2015. However, this game gets UND in the door, so to speak, and sets the stage for 2019. Maybe Schweigert feels that even if UND gets beat in 2015 that the exposure will give him the recruiting leverage to beat the Bison by 2019. He appears to be able to win some of the recruiting battles now and there is the allure of being on the team that changes the status quo of perception of the region's fans. If he can go into the living rooms of potential recruits in 2016, 17 and 18 and sell those kids on being the team that dethrones the Bison it can change UND's football landscape considerably. He was on the staff when football and hockey won national championships in consecutive years, so he knows UND can be a football power while remaining a premier hockey school.

Sorry, I hate long posts, and now this one has gotten out of hand and I don't know where to stop, so I will stop here.

[SooToo]

Amen, Ira. Perfectly said. Lots of factors involved in how we got to where we are. In the end its all academic. The whole fanbase looks a little petty with the apparent need by some to continually bash a coach who's no longer with the program. Time to move on.

[BisonCardinal]

I know some (NDSU fans) will take great and deep offense at this, but I do sincerely mean this as a great compliment:

NDSU does not run anything exceptional; but, they run everything they run exceptionally.

- NDSU's blocking schemes are not revolutionary; their guys run them to precision every time, and it's actually surprising when they miss an assignment or a block

- NDSU's plays are not revolutionary either; but, again they run them to precise perfection.

- NDSU's defense is a base Tampa Two. Nothing earth-shattering there, but again, every player is assignment sharp and makes the tackle that needs to be made.

NDSU is playing crisp, assignment sharp, precision football. There's nothing there that can not be replicated ... if a culture where that is the expectation is put in place.

NDSU has that culture. Their battle is maintaining it as complacency (and injury) are the enemy.

UND has to create that culture and climb that climb. I know that would never have happened under Mussman. I believe it is more possible under Schweigert.

One more observation about NDSU:

Their guys did not fatigue against Iowa State. They didn't against Kansas State last year either. NDSU's guys seem stronger and fresher at the end of the game. They seem better conditioned. (That was a big part of Dean Blais' UND hockey teams' success: they were fresh late in games.)

UND's Football CEO needs to address strength and conditioning as I believe I can correlate that to the present state of the program as well.

What's there to be offended about? Great post!

[CMSioux]

USD was a Summit member for what, 2 years, before they got an invitation to the MVFC? And only then to stop the Coyotes from joining UND in the Big Sky? The Great West was dead. The MVFC showed no sign of admitting UND or USD at the time. Vivitero commented that USD was admitted BECAUSE when UND was admitted to the Big Sky, they decided they could invite USD without having to invite North Dakota at the same time (and the unspoken reason was to keep the Big Sky out of the MVFC footprint). The Summit without a football conference would have been a worse death for UND football than two more years of Mussman. On top of that, Douple was not supportive and still has shown no reason to be trusted.

The Summit could become NCC 2.0 -NDSU, USD, SDSU, UNO (before they dropped football) if they were able to entice UND and threaten to break off from the MVFC and form their own Summit football conference. UND would be the fifth school, and then adding someone like Northern Colorado or getting, for example, Minnesota State Mankato, St Cloud or Minnesota Duluth to move up would give the Summit the sixth member to form a conference, but that does not seem to be Douple's vision either, if he has a vision of the future which at this time seems doubtful. He seems to be more reactive than proactive, while Fullerton has vision and knows where he wants the Big Sky to be positioned when the Power 5 make their move and is preparing the Big Sky for that eventuality. Whether you agree with SiouxVolley's analysis or not, the Big Sky will not be caught flat-footed when this realignment happens. And it certainly appears that it is much more likely to happen than not.

Personally I would have liked to see certain schools come together and join Idaho and New Mexico State a couple of years ago, but the timing was not right. I think a conference of those two along with the Montana's, Dakotas, Idaho St, Eastern Washington, maybe even Northern Colorado, Northern Iowa, Weber and Wyoming (but know they would not be interested) along with maybe Denver and Seattle for non-football sports would have been great. In reality, the South Dakota's are going nowhere -they have such a sweet deal with the Summit bb tournament. Wyoming is not leaving the MW, UNI will not leave the MVC, and too many of the Big Sky schools were not ready to make the transition, including UND.

I believe a very telling fact of what is going to happen in the next few years is Idaho including in their conference affiliation contract that they can refuse entry into the Big Sky if Montana, Montana State or NORTH DAKOTA is no longer a member of the Big Sky. That is a huge endorsement of a school that has been a member of a 50 year old conference for only two years. I think it is more than amazing that UND was one of 3 schools in a 13 member conference to be specifically named as an integral member of the conference. I don't know if SiouxVolley has some kind of earpiece or if he has a prediction with no basis whatsoever, but his posts have insight into things going on that the rest of us do not.

Maybe NDSU is not getting ready to ask the Big Sky for affiliation, as SiouxVolley says. I don't think the football games are any sign of the Bison wanting to make nicey-nice with UND or the Big Sky. If that was the case, it would have been a home and home. It more probably was a product of having more-or-less saved the 2015 date in the calendar until it is almost too late and Faison and Schweigert calling Taylor's bluff while NDSU was in transition. I think UND had more leverage than they used and could have pushed more for a more equitable contract, but there might be a method to UND's madness. After watching the games this past weekend, NDSU is still way ahead of UND on the field, and probably will be in 2015. However, this game gets UND in the door, so to speak, and sets the stage for 2019. Maybe Schweigert feels that even if UND gets beat in 2015 that the exposure will give him the recruiting leverage to beat the Bison by 2019. He appears to be able to win some of the recruiting battles now and there is the allure of being on the team that changes the status quo of perception of the region's fans. If he can go into the living rooms of potential recruits in 2016, 17 and 18 and sell those kids on being the team that dethrones the Bison it can change UND's football landscape considerably. He was on the staff when football and hockey won national championships in consecutive years, so he knows UND can be a football power while remaining a premier hockey school.

Sorry, I hate long posts, and now this one has gotten out of hand and I don't know where to stop, so I will stop here.

Thanks for taking the time - so many of us are so tired of having to revisit the facts whenever a new troll comes o board - trolls live on revising history and pulling facts out of thin air.

[JohnboyND7]

Thanks for taking the time - so many of us are so tired of having to revisit the facts whenever a new troll comes o board - trolls live on revising history and pulling facts out of thin air.

USD was in the summit for a year before starting play in the MVFC.

If it was UND or USD I think UND would have been left out. Maybe it was not mutually exclusive though... No way of knowing

[darell1976]

Hey, the Summit wanted you/needed you. If you would have joined the Summit, the other Summit teams would have been your support and ticket to join the MVFC, and quickly. You would be in the MVFC right now, no doubt about that.

Over and over I hear . . . "The MVFC would not take us". Idiots, all you had to do was join the Summit, and the offer would have come quickly. Hey, maybe you are happier in the BSC . . . if so, good for you, but please don't whine about the MVFC not inviting you, all you had to do was join the Summit.

If my post ignites another round of Summit bashing, then so be it. Check the Summit sagarin vs. the BSC. A little more Summit bashig will hopefully keep you in the BSC and out of the MVFC for a few more recruting cycles . . . ha, ha. Honestly, your FB is not better off in the BSC.

If the MVFC wanted us they would have invited us the same time the SL did before the BSC offered membership in all sports. The only choice that was on the table was the SL for all sports but football or the Big Sky for all sports including football. Also when UND asked the SL for membership in baseball a couple years ago they said no that is why UND is in the WAC. You want UND in the MVFC get those eastern teams and Patty V to change their minds about that extra trip to the Dakota's.

[SiouxVolley]

USD was in the summit for a year before starting play in the MVFC.

If it was UND or USD I think UND would have been left out. Maybe it was not mutually exclusive though... No way of knowing

 

Taylor wanted to kill UND football off or at least wound it badly, so NDSU's admin didn't go to bat in the MVFC for UND.  Simple as that.  If NDSU had wanted UND in, they could have greased the skids.  Taylor and Chapman chose not to, as they are devious souls.  Years later, Taylor was being a complete *sshole about scheduling UND football, so why would he and the NDSU prez's supported UND for the MVFC?

 

SDSU wasn't so strident against USD, and the distance was less the SDSU and NDSU so the other schools could often bus to Vermillion.

[JohnboyND7]

Taylor wanted to kill UND football off or at least wound it badly, so NDSU's admin didn't go to bat in the MVFC for UND. Simple as that. If NDSU had wanted UND in, they could have greased the skids. Taylor and Chapman chose not to, as they are devious souls. Years later, Taylor was being a complete *sshole about scheduling UND football, so why would he and the NDSU prez's supported UND for the MVFC?

SDSU wasn't so strident against USD, and the distance was less the SDSU and NDSU so the other schools could often bus to Vermillion.

We'll have to agree to disagree. From what I've read... Eastern MVFC really doesn't like the idea of traveling this far west.

You seem to be on a witch hunt regarding Gene with little if anything to support it.

[SiouxVolley]

We'll have to agree to disagree. From what I've read... Eastern MVFC really doesn't like the idea of traveling this far west.

You seem to be on a witch hunt regarding Gene with little if anything to support it.

 

10+ years of press about not wanting to schedule a UND game by Gene doesn't support anything you say.

 

Kolpack and Izzo would agree with what I say, but they don't want to run against the NDSU admin official line.

 

 

But UND is happy where they are at and will be even happier when half the Big Sky is FBS.  NDSU will have to move then.

[JohnboyND7]

10+ years of press about not wanting to schedule a UND game by Gene doesn't support anything you say.

Kolpack and Izzo would agree with what I say, but they don't want to run against the NDSU admin official line.

But UND is happy where they are at and will be even happier when half the Big Sky is FBS. NDSU will have to move then.

If I recall... Ten years ago... The issue was not NDSU... Perhaps the past 6 or 7 years... But ten...?

[Bison Dan]

The world according to SV....  Answer me this why did UND not play NDSU in ANY sport after 2003?  RT's only purpose was to try to derail NDSU's transition to DI. In 2004 the FB rule about playing DI-AA was changed and UND could have scheduled NDSU.  Oh well ancient history and all when well with our transition.   

[Dagger]

How many times does the same thing get said over and over?  Time to move on.

[Siouxphan27]

The world according to SV.... Answer me this why did UND not play NDSU in ANY sport after 2003? RT's only purpose was to try to derail NDSU's transition to DI. In 2004 the FB rule about playing DI-AA was changed and UND could have scheduled NDSU. Oh well ancient history and all when well with our transition.

The answer is because games are scheduled years in advance.

Instead, why don't you answer this.... Why are you still here?

[Matt]

We both should have moved with UNI, Montana, Montana State, etc., in the 70's, and yes we should have moved together in 2003. We are where we are and we have to deal with it.

It could also be argued that the refusal of UND to move up with ndsu paved the way for the level of success they are seeing today.  Up until the move up, UND was a legitimate competitor for corporate dollars, recruits, and on the field.

 

By not moving up UND let the ac run roughshod over the entire state and region.  Then to make matters worse, the ac takes those tools and builds a dynasty and now UND is in a position where they not only are competing for resources with the ac, but the ac has firmly entrenched themselves on the high ground and UND is left to storm the hill.

 

Kupchella had such a terrible experience with the d-1 transition when he was in Missouri, I suspect he believed the dakota schools would suffer a similar fate.

[UND92,96]

Adding to Matt's point, I think the increased success of SDSU in FCS relative to division II also supports the notion--and arguably even moreso than the NDSU experience--that moving first was a huge, huge reason for the football success both programs have had the past several years. I'm not going to bash RT or Kupchella now, because I believe there were legitimate reasons, or at least reasons that seemed legitimate at the time, for waiting. But in retrospect, waiting turned out to be one of the biggest mistakes the UND athletic department has ever made.

[The Sicatoka]

Answer me this why did UND not play NDSU in ANY sport after 2003?  RT's only purpose was to try to derail NDSU's transition to DI.

 

I understand what you're trying to say, but riddle me this:

 

How does playing a DII help a team looking to become DI?

 

In a strangely twisted and perverse way, RT helped NDSU by forcing NDSU to play DIs and not legacy DIIs. 

[MafiaMan]

It could also be argued that the refusal of UND to move up with ndsu paved the way for the level of success they are seeing today. Up until the move up, UND was a legitimate competitor for corporate dollars, recruits, and on the field.

By not moving up UND let the ac run roughshod over the entire state and region. Then to make matters worse, the ac takes those tools and builds a dynasty and now UND is in a position where they not only are competing for resources with the ac, but the ac has firmly entrenched themselves on the high ground and UND is left to storm the hill.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but at the time of NDSU's big announcement, wasn't UND's company line "we're happy where we are at now in D-2"?

[Matt]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but at the time of NDSU's big announcement, wasn't UND's company line "we're happy where we are at now in D-2"?

You are not wrong

[UND1983]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but at the time of NDSU's big announcement, wasn't UND's company line "we're happy where we are at now in D-2"?

 

That's what you say when you don't have the money or resources or backing from your president to make the move.

[Hawkster]

Adding to Matt's point, I think the increased success of SDSU in FCS relative to division II also supports the notion--and arguably even moreso than the NDSU experience--that moving first was a huge, huge reason for the football success both programs have had the past several years. I'm not going to bash RT or Kupchella now, because I believe there were legitimate reasons, or at least reasons that seemed legitimate at the time, for waiting. But in retrospect, waiting turned out to be one of the biggest mistakes the UND athletic department has ever made.

^^^  THIS^^^    I really thought the entire North Central Conference should have moved up back in 2002 when it was first proposed.   The few schools that couldn't swing it could have dropped out and the rest of us moved on.    RT and Kupchella should have had more foresight on this.   We fumbled around and tried to make things miserable for the ones that did move and it backfired.

[MafiaMan]

You are not wrong

Just wanted to be sure Alzheimer's wasn't kicking in.

This is the part where Shawn-O jumps in and asks me what Bison jersey I'm wearing for the next game...