UND and the Big Sky could go FBS

[Gothmog]

2 hours ago, Nodak78 said:

damn not sure how this fits into going FBS but another log on the fire.

 

http://www.fbschedules.com/2016/08/idaho-washington-state-2020-cancels-sjsu-series/

 

 

I may be stating the obvious, but this indicates that Idaho is making adjustments to its schedule based on its FCS status. It's another indication that the FBS WAC isn't happening.

[jdub27]

Here's a timeline/explanation of the budget deficit in the athletic department:

• UND had a projected deficit of $5 million due to the state capping tuition rates after UND had set their budget plus the first round of mandated budget cuts by Dalrymple.
• Athletics took a ~$2.4 million hit because of that in March/April when their fiscal year was almost over, meaning its pretty tough to impossible to do much at that point. They had some excess revenue that was able to cover a portion of it (~$1 million) but knew the budget cuts could be permanent and there still could be another round
• Golf and baseball were cut, saving around $720,000/year, but those savings won't be realized until next season
• Budget deficit ended up being $1.4 million. Simple math shows there would have been about $1 million in surplus funds without the budget cuts (though this is government/college athletics accounting so it would have never shown up that way, there would have likely just been few institutional funds used and the athletic department would have shown to be near break-even, just like it does every year)
• Athletic department has already made budget adjustments for 2016-17 of over $2,425,000 including decreasing some expenses and increased revenue.
  • Doing the math, that covers the deficit and then puts them $1 million ahead of whatever the "breakeven" number was for 2015-16. That is before adding in FCOA for all sports outside of hockey (which were paid this year) at an additional cost of $600,000 or so. However there is a second round of budget cuts that will affect next year's budget so that "breakeven" number will likely be lower in 2016-2017 and going forward, which is why they are examining things again.

[Gothmog]

56 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Here's a timeline/explanation of the budget deficit in the athletic department:

• UND had a projected deficit of $5 million due to the state capping tuition rates after UND had set their budget plus the first round of mandated budget cuts by Dalrymple.
• Athletics took a ~$2.4 million hit because of that in March/April when their fiscal year was almost over, meaning its pretty tough to impossible to do much at that point. They had some excess revenue that was able to cover a portion of it (~$1 million) but knew the budget cuts could be permanent and there still could be another round
• Golf and baseball were cut, saving around $720,000/year, but those savings won't be realized until next season
• Budget deficit ended up being $1.4 million. Simple math shows there would have been about $1 million in surplus funds without the budget cuts (though this is government/college athletics accounting so it would have never shown up that way, there would have likely just been few institutional funds used and the athletic department would have shown to be near break-even, just like it does every year)
• Athletic department has already made budget adjustments for 2016-17 of over $2,425,000 including decreasing some expenses and increased revenue.
  • Doing the math, that covers the deficit and then puts them $1 million ahead of whatever the "breakeven" number was for 2015-16. That is before adding in FCOA for all sports outside of hockey (which were paid this year) at an additional cost of $600,000 or so. However there is a second round of budget cuts that will affect next year's budget so that "breakeven" number will likely be lower in 2016-2017 and going forward, which is why they are examining things again.

Personally, I think it's all just a ruse to justify a move to the Summit/MVFC.

[SWSiouxMN]

All I know is that if UND does end up moving to the Summit/MVFC, I will need to start planning trips to Sioux Falls.

I am curious, as a few others have suggested here or the other thread about the possibility of a Summit/Big Sky configuration if the MVFC decides to stand pat 

[The Sicatoka]

Well, this thread has been quiet for a while. I guess I'll pull the pin and roll my own flash-bang in to so see what scrambles around.

My scenario plays off SV's:

First, have UM, UI, MSU, and UND do the friendly takeover of the WAC (SV's "BSC/WAC schools swap") to get the magic wand to make FBS schools.

But to make that work you'd really have to make the next major move, namely, collapse the western part of the Summit/MVFC:

WAC Mountain: UM, UI, MSU, (two more west FB schools), Denver
WAC Plains: UND, NDSU, SDSU, USD, (one more east FB school), Omaha

There it is: 10 FB (FBS), 12 BB.

• Half the schedule is by bus.
• Strong rivals and strong schools.
• This group would become the west's answer to the MAC. 

And yeah, I'm the guy who used the phrase "lots of moving parts" before and this is a ton of them so I plainly admit this is out there. I just had to see how much this shakes the internet.  

PS - I'd lobby to move the NCHC's administration into this "new WAC" administrative structure to save costs. (UND, DU, and UNO are NCHC core schools.) 

[Nodak78]

58 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Well, this thread has been quiet for a while. I guess I'll pull the pin and roll my own flash-bang in to so see what scrambles around.

My scenario plays off SV's:

First, have UM, UI, MSU, and UND do the friendly takeover of the WAC (SV's "BSC/WAC schools swap") to get the magic wand to make FBS schools.

But to make that work you'd really have to make the next major move, namely, collapse the western part of the Summit/MVFC:

WAC Mountain: UM, UI, MSU, (two more west FB schools), Denver
WAC Plains: UND, NDSU, SDSU, USD, (one more east FB school), Omaha

There it is: 10 FB (FBS), 12 BB.

• Half the schedule is by bus.
• Strong rivals and strong schools.
• This group would become the west's answer to the MAC. 

And yeah, I'm the guy who used the phrase "lots of moving parts" before and this is a ton of them so I plainly admit this is out there. I just had to see how much this shakes the internet.  

PS - I'd lobby to move the NCHC's administration into this "new WAC" administrative structure to save costs. (UND, DU, and UNO are NCHC core schools.) 

I see joining the WAC as I do the MVFC.  I saw on the MSU board they are looking to fund raise and upgrade the athletics facilities.  The way Kennedy is positioning this committee I would not be surprised to see this move.

[The Sicatoka]

Regarding Idaho and dropping the SJSU series from 2019-2022:

Here are Idaho's future non-conference opponents: http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa/sun-belt/idaho-vandals.php

Assuming an 8-game BSC schedule, they'll need three games in 2017 and 2018. They have them. 

In 2019 they have two still (after dropping SJSU). If they're in the BSC, that's 8 games for 10 total. Why'd they not try to keep the at SJSU game? 

In 2020 they have three still (after dropping SJSU). Add 8 BSC and that's 11.*

 

*Is 2020 a 12-game season by chance? 

[SIOUXFAN97]

10 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Regarding Idaho and dropping the SJSU series from 2019-2022:

Here are Idaho's future non-conference opponents: http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa/sun-belt/idaho-vandals.php

Assuming an 8-game BSC schedule, they'll need three games in 2017 and 2018. They have them. 

In 2019 they have two still (after dropping SJSU). If they're in the BSC, that's 8 games for 10 total. Why'd they not try to keep the at SJSU game? 

In 2020 they have three still (after dropping SJSU). Add 8 BSC and that's 11.*

 

*Is 2020 a 12-game season by chance? 

what r you hinting at?  

[The Sicatoka]

16 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

what r you hinting at?  

Is (again, I don't know, someone will inform me) 2020 is a 12-game year? 
If it is, it looks like Idaho would be set perfectly if they had 9 conference games in 2019 and 2020. 

And that's not a hint; just an observation. 

[SIOUXFAN97]

5 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Is (again, I don't know, someone will inform me) 2020 is a 12-game year? 
If it is, it looks like Idaho would be set perfectly if they had 9 conference games in 2019 and 2020. 

And that's not a hint; just an observation. 

okay what are you observing then?

[jdub27]

9 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

*Is 2020 a 12-game season by chance? 

No but 2019 is. 

[The Sicatoka]

39 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

No but 2019 is. 

Given that, the move by Idaho (no SJSU games) is absolutely inside-out; overall, they're good for 2020 now, but now short two games in 2019. 

[Gothmog]

16 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

Well, this thread has been quiet for a while. I guess I'll pull the pin and roll my own flash-bang in to so see what scrambles around.

My scenario plays off SV's:

First, have UM, UI, MSU, and UND do the friendly takeover of the WAC (SV's "BSC/WAC schools swap") to get the magic wand to make FBS schools.

But to make that work you'd really have to make the next major move, namely, collapse the western part of the Summit/MVFC:

WAC Mountain: UM, UI, MSU, (two more west FB schools), Denver
WAC Plains: UND, NDSU, SDSU, USD, (one more east FB school), Omaha

There it is: 10 FB (FBS), 12 BB.

• Half the schedule is by bus.
• Strong rivals and strong schools.
• This group would become the west's answer to the MAC. 

And yeah, I'm the guy who used the phrase "lots of moving parts" before and this is a ton of them so I plainly admit this is out there. I just had to see how much this shakes the internet.  

PS - I'd lobby to move the NCHC's administration into this "new WAC" administrative structure to save costs. (UND, DU, and UNO are NCHC core schools.) 

I agree that it might indeed be possible to craft a solid G5 FBS conference from a combination of Big Sky and MVFC schools, and that there might even be a need for such a conference. What I quarrel with is SV's insistence that not only could something like that happen, but that it is, in fact, happening right now.

[NDSU grad]

18 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

Well, this thread has been quiet for a while. I guess I'll pull the pin and roll my own flash-bang in to so see what scrambles around.

My scenario plays off SV's:

First, have UM, UI, MSU, and UND do the friendly takeover of the WAC (SV's "BSC/WAC schools swap") to get the magic wand to make FBS schools.

But to make that work you'd really have to make the next major move, namely, collapse the western part of the Summit/MVFC:

WAC Mountain: UM, UI, MSU, (two more west FB schools), Denver
WAC Plains: UND, NDSU, SDSU, USD, (one more east FB school), Omaha

There it is: 10 FB (FBS), 12 BB.

• Half the schedule is by bus.
• Strong rivals and strong schools.
• This group would become the west's answer to the MAC. 

And yeah, I'm the guy who used the phrase "lots of moving parts" before and this is a ton of them so I plainly admit this is out there. I just had to see how much this shakes the internet.  

PS - I'd lobby to move the NCHC's administration into this "new WAC" administrative structure to save costs. (UND, DU, and UNO are NCHC core schools.) 

I don't think this is out of the realm of possibility, but I think where the problem comes in is 1) finding two other western schools interested in FBS, and 2) getting the XDSU's (and possibly USD) to go along.  

[dmksioux]

2 minutes ago, NDSU grad said:

I don't think this is out of the realm of possibility, but I think where the problem comes in is 1) finding two other western schools interested in FBS, and 2) getting the XDSU's (and possibly USD) to go along.  

A pipe dream of a conference for sure.  I would think NMSU would potentially join.

[The Sicatoka]

8 minutes ago, NDSU grad said:

I don't think this is out of the realm of possibility, but I think where the problem comes in is 1) finding two other western schools interested in FBS, and 2) getting the XDSU's (and possibly USD) to go along.  

NMSU? Wichita State? EWU? Portland State? 

But, definitely there are, " ... lots of moving parts ... "

[Herd]

It's a tough debate on whether joining a quote "FBS" conference is advantageous. 

• If the FCS level completely loses it's ability to schedule games vs. P5 or G5 teams, then it becomes more of a priority.
• If you just move to a watered down FBS WAC and play the same teams, is it really worth spending and extra $4 mil for no playoffs and playing the same teams?
• If the Top level of football expanded to a 12 team playoff with all conferences having an avenue to the playoff, then I'm listening.  i.e . . . 4 Top Conf champs, 5 At Large Bids, 3 Play-in games from lower conferences.  Just playing a conf championship game doesn't interest me, some playoff is needed.  No access, why spend more?
• Is there a split coming with P5/G5?  Why, the P5 is having their cake and eating it too.   The G5 gets games vs the P5, but that's about it.  The are locked out of the playoffs save a 2nd tier bowl for 1 team.  What the draw?   FCS move ups are not tying to be Ohio State, so there needs to be an acceptable scholarship level below the 85 top.
• If FBS splits scholarship at 85 for the top, 70 for the middle, and 50 for low end, Yes, then you move to the 2nd Tier.  Not a lot of incentive to move to 85 for an FCS team.   If your at 85 and at the top, why?  You won't be top 25, you won't have access, you are not Ohio State.  (neither is most of the 120 teams in FBS)

 

[The Sicatoka]

2 hours ago, Herd said:

• If you just move to a watered down FBS WAC and play the same teams, is it really worth spending and extra $4 mil for no playoffs and playing the same teams?

Where's that $4 million number coming from? Worst case scholarships (63 --> 85) is 22 times 2 (title IX) for 44. At $20k per that's $880k. What else? Coaches? OK, double the current numbers. What else? NDSU and UND both have the FBS minimum sport sponsor ship (16) so that's done. Maybe add a few more women's scholarships for extra Title IX insurance? And ... ... ... I'm getting about half your number at worst. What am I missing? 

[Herd]

12 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

Where's that $4 million number coming from? Worst case scholarships (63 --> 85) is 22 times 2 (title IX) for 44. At $20k per that's $880k. What else? Coaches? OK, double the current numbers. What else? NDSU and UND both have the FBS minimum sport sponsor ship (16) so that's done. Maybe add a few more women's scholarships for extra Title IX insurance? And ... ... ... I'm getting about half your number at worst. What am I missing? 

4 million to move to the 85 scholly level with title iX has been the number used by numerous teams and reports over the past 5 years.  That number is nothing new.

[The Sicatoka]

4 hours ago, Herd said:

4 million to move to the 85 scholly level with title iX has been the number used by numerous teams and reports over the past 5 years.  That number is nothing new.

Yes. I get that. But I'd still like to see the basis, the numbers, behind it. Otherwise it's just a number.

[southpaw]

Where does Air Force stick their sports now that they're going to be a finalist for a FB-only spot in the Big12?  After turning the B12 down five years ago, it's looking like they'll be headed there.  Does that open the door for AF to the BigSky as a travel partner for UNC?   Summit with Denver as a travel partner?  Where does that leave UND?  

[BisonCardinal]

Seems to me this isn't about hockey or football.  It's about containing costs for the non-revenue sports.  So I honestly think UND is headed to the Summit and will keep football in the Big Sky.  

I don't get excited about a MVC invite for NDSU, like some people.  An I-29 conference with the Dakota 4, UNO, Oral Roberts and Denver would make for a strong base.

[nd1sufan]

On August 23, 2016 at 10:03 PM, Cratter said:

Midco and UND are building rapport. Which both know are helping build each other up, and will be both multiple more to each side in the future, as UND conference games are already under contract with national television (and midco contract has to work around)....neither of which are happening at NDSU as KVLY just realized it only competed with basically no one.

Number 2 in the bid for NDSU football was higher than the bid for all UND sports on a yearly basis, and that was from UND buddy that they are building a great rapport with, MIDCO. 

[Cratter]

10 minutes ago, nd1sufan said:

Number 2 in the bid for NDSU football was higher than the bid for all UND sports on a yearly basis, and that was from UND buddy that they are building a great rapport with, MIDCO. 

#2 bid was a lot less than KVLYs bid. Guy that works for KVLY told me they regret how much they bid after hearing the others.

[UNDBIZ]

How much is KVLY spending to broadcast ndsu women's basketball, volleyball, and women's hockey games, along with a weekly show dedicated to those sports (not football)?