Grand Forks Economy

[jdub27]

35 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

I’ll just say the owner likes making changes long after changes should be made.

Plenty of issues to go around. Some controllable, some not. They definitely compounded though.

[Kab]

Been there but better now than later , either way the contractor makes out good 

[gfhockey]

The alerus sign on it looks dented up already

[Hammersmith]

18 hours ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

i know someone said our soil is sandy which is why it's more expensive to go to high with these new downtown buildings....but isn't the beacon far enough from the river to where instead of 3 seven story buildings couldn't they just do 2 ten or so story buildings?

Holy !@#$. Opposite Opposite Opposite

The soil in the RRV is heavy clay, not sand. And the band of clay is over 200 miles long N/S and 30-50 miles wide(E/W). The clay layers(there are two) are around 100ft thick. The soil under the clay is capable of bearing high loads, but the clay is not.

That means taller buildings need to be anchored with hundreds or thousands of pilings driven through the clay to the soils below in order to distribute the weight evenly and keep the building from shifting. The taller(heavier) the building, the greater the number of pilings and the deeper they need to go. That cost builds up fast. Each additional floor costs significantly more than the one below it. New construction techniques and materials have helped lower the cost(which is why the Fargo Sanford building and the RDO Tower were able to happen), but it's a real stretch to go beyond 6-8 stories in the RRV.

[SIOUXFAN97]

59 minutes ago, Hammersmith said:

Holy !@#$. Opposite Opposite Opposite

The soil in the RRV is heavy clay, not sand. And the band of clay is over 200 miles long N/S and 30-50 miles wide(E/W). The clay layers(there are two) are around 100ft thick. The soil under the clay is capable of bearing high loads, but the clay is not.

That means taller buildings need to be anchored with hundreds or thousands of pilings driven through the clay to the soils below in order to distribute the weight evenly and keep the building from shifting. The taller(heavier) the building, the greater the number of pilings and the deeper they need to go. That cost builds up fast. Each additional floor costs significantly more than the one below it. New construction techniques and materials have helped lower the cost(which is why the Fargo Sanford building and the RDO Tower were able to happen), but it's a real stretch to go beyond 6-8 stories in the RRV.

oops meant clay....but boy i had no idea about the e/w 30-50 miles!

why is the columbia towers so tall then? and the us bank building right by the building site?   and there both kinda old too?

[Hammersmith]

49 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

oops meant clay....but boy i had no idea about the e/w 30-50 miles!

why is the columbia towers so tall then? and the us bank building right by the building site?   and there both kinda old too?

You can always do it, but the economics have to make sense. Occasionally a bit of ego, too. I'm sure in this case, the economics said three shorter buildings were cheaper than two taller buildings. Now if they needed the same amount of square footage but had a smaller lot to work with, maybe they would have gone up. But they had the space to build three, so that made sense to them.

It's really the RRV city sprawl debate in miniature. Because it's expensive to build up, and land is basically flat for a 25 mile radius, it's always cheaper for businesses to expand the footprint of the city instead of increasing the density. But increasing the density is cheaper for the city in the long run because it means less infrastructure and fewer police and fire stations. It's why property tax incentives for downtown redevelopment make financial sense for cities like GF or Fargo. Every business that relocates to an area that has preexisting infrastructure, instead of building on a site that forces the city to extend the infrastructure, saves the city money.  

 

As for the width of the clay section, I believe around GF it runs from Red Lake Falls, MN to Turtle River State Park(just beyond the AFB). About 55 miles. 

[Vegas_Sioux]

21 minutes ago, Hammersmith said:

You can always do it, but the economics have to make sense. Occasionally a bit of ego, too. I'm sure in this case, the economics said three shorter buildings were cheaper than two taller buildings. Now if they needed the same amount of square footage but had a smaller lot to work with, maybe they would have gone up. But they had the space to build three, so that made sense to them.

It's really the RRV city sprawl debate in miniature. Because it's expensive to build up, and land is basically flat for a 25 mile radius, it's always cheaper for businesses to expand the footprint of the city instead of increasing the density. But increasing the density is cheaper for the city in the long run because it means less infrastructure and fewer police and fire stations. It's why property tax incentives for downtown redevelopment make financial sense for cities like GF or Fargo. Every business that relocates to an area that has preexisting infrastructure, instead of building on a site that forces the city to extend the infrastructure, saves the city money.  

 

As for the width of the clay section, I believe around GF it runs from Red Lake Falls, MN to Turtle River State Park(just beyond the AFB). About 55 miles. 

Yep, that’s why there are sand and gravel mines just east of crookston it’s the ancient eastern beachhead. 

[forksandspoons]

Yet another mission for Grand Forks Air Force Base. How much these benefit the economy remains to be seen. 

Future satellite mission added to Grand Forks Air Force Base's responsibilities

https://www.grandforksherald.com/news/government-and-politics/7199629-Future-satellite-mission-added-to-Grand-Forks-Air-Force-Bases-responsibilities

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

44 minutes ago, forksandspoons said:

Yet another mission for Grand Forks Air Force Base. How much these benefit the economy remains to be seen. 

Future satellite mission added to Grand Forks Air Force Base's responsibilities

https://www.grandforksherald.com/news/government-and-politics/7199629-Future-satellite-mission-added-to-Grand-Forks-Air-Force-Bases-responsibilities

The question seems to be: How many people are coming to the AFB with these missions?

[forksandspoons]

Grand Forks company receives $17M contract from U.S. Navy
 

https://www.grandforksherald.com/business/7203119-Grand-Forks-company-receives-17M-contract-from-U.S.-Navy

[Oxbow6]

All Starbucks in ND have closed their lobbies to indoor seating for 3 weeks. Believe Caribou is doing the same. 

#TheScience

[SIOUXFAN97]

11 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

All Starbucks in ND have closed their lobbies to indoor seating for 3 weeks. Believe Caribou is doing the same. 

#TheScience

buy keurig stock...so stupid

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

When you think about some of the business that have limited on-site access (in some cases, for more than a year now), it's kinda funny how many are the LAST place you'd find anyone concerned about their health.

[Oxbow6]

11 minutes ago, NoiseInsideMyHead said:

When you think about some of the business that have limited on-site access (in some cases, for more than a year now), it's kinda funny how many are the LAST place you'd find anyone concerned about their health.

I know individuals that won't go to UND or HS athletic events this fall but will spend a half a day in Scheels, Fleet Farm, Walmart or TJMax shopping.

[SIOUXFAN97]

28 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

All Starbucks in ND have closed their lobbies to indoor seating for 3 weeks. Believe Caribou is doing the same. 

#TheScience

wired, bully brew, urban stampede.....buy local

[Oxbow6]

4 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

wired, bully brew, urban stampede.....buy local

Went to Bully this am

[Shawn-O]

6 hours ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

buy keurig stock...so stupid

Keurig with the Dunkin' K-cups is better coffee anyway.  

[petey23]

5 hours ago, Oxbow6 said:

Went to Bully this am

Used to have Bully Brew right down the hallway where I lived....then they moved.

[SIOUXFAN97]

4 minutes ago, petey23 said:

Used to have Bully Brew right down the hallway where I lived....then they moved.

you used to live at valley eldercare?

[petey23]

4 hours ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

you used to live at valley eldercare?

Fargo

[forksandspoons]

The governor, Hoeven and Cramer have all been in Grand Forks a ton lately. UAS, carbon capture, GFAB, downtown development, etc. Good signs for the city and UND. 
 

U.S. Secretary of Energy says North Dakota's carbon storage capacity a ''gift' to the planet'

https://www.grandforksherald.com/news/government-and-politics/7239125-U.S.-Secretary-of-Energy-says-North-Dakotas-carbon-storage-capacity-a-gift-to-the-planet

[northernraider]

People have been wanting a waterpark in Grand Forks for years (CanadInn doesn't count), well Fargo's is finally official 

https://epiccompaniesnd.com/eola-by-epic-starts-construction-on-phase-1/

 

A lot of great thinks are happening in Grand Forks, but still a lack of major attraction indoor activity for those occasional winter days 

[Cratter]

3 hours ago, northernraider said:

People have been wanting a waterpark in Grand Forks for years (CanadInn doesn't count), well Fargo's is finally official 

https://epiccompaniesnd.com/eola-by-epic-starts-construction-on-phase-1/

 

A lot of great thinks are happening in Grand Forks, but still a lack of major attraction indoor activity for those occasional winter days 

That Waterpark will likely be the same size or smaller than the Canad Inn one.

Not sure what "major indoor attractions for winter" Fargo currently has?

A bigger mall?

[Cratter]

Anyone know what the new building going by up the auto parts store by the Ralph is gonna be?

[Kab]

I see altru is starting again