Indian nicknames in the news

[TBR]

  So it sounds like you are part of the group I was talking about that doesn't want a new nickname because you want to keep using the old one, even though it would be as the unofficial nickname with North Dakota being the "official nickname". 

No, I just finished explaining that I don't want a new identity imposed on UND which is not the same as saying I want to keep using the Sioux moniker. I thought it was a straightforward statement that did not require anyone coming along and telling me what I meant.

[yababy8]

There are people that actually think the nickname will be an option again. But that isn't what I was referring to. I was referring to people that don't want a new name competing with the Fighting Sioux nickname. They don't want a new nickname because people will yell that at games and more people will stop yelling Fighting Sioux. They want to keep the old identity, the Fighting Sioux, on an unofficial basis rather than have anyone start using a new nickname. So it sounds like you are part of the group I was talking about that doesn't want a new nickname because you want to keep using the old one, even though it would be as the unofficial nickname with North Dakota being the "official nickname". That is why I said it is obvious why most people want to keep North Dakota, it is because they want to keep using Fighting Sioux on an unofficial basis not as an official name.

At least the motives of those that want to go without a new nickname are obvoius, understandable, logical and fair.

Conversely, the motive for forcing thousands upon thousands of good, god loving, productive members of society to have to live with this lunacy that was in the beginning justified in the name of protecting a group of offended people only to be exposed as actually without a bit of consideration or respect for those very people to the extreme point of getting sued by the group of said victims in an attempt to restrain said lunancy from being imposed on said group.

Now there in lies the obvious target of any and all worthy conversations of vague, confused, hidden or ulterior motives.

[jdub27]

At least the motives of those that want to go without a new nickname are obvoius, understandable, logical and fair.

Conversely, the motive for forcing thousands upon thousands of good, god loving, productive members of society to have to live with this lunacy that was in the beginning justified in the name of protecting a group of offended people only to be exposed as actually without a bit of consideration or respect for those very people to the extreme point of getting sued in an attempt to restrain said lunancy from being imposed on said group.

Now there in lies the obvious target of any and all worthy conversations of vague, confused, hidden or ulterior motives.

 

I'd argue against the understandable and logical part, considering the whole settlement deal that kind of prevents it.  And thousands of "good, god loving, productive members of society" voted to remove the name because it was in the best interest of the University and its student athletes.

[TBR]

At least the motives of those that want to go without a new nickname are obvoius, understandable, logical and fair.

Conversely, the motive for forcing thousands upon thousands of good, god loving, productive members of society to have to live with this lunacy that was in the beginning justified in the name of protecting a group of offended people only to be exposed as actually without a bit of consideration or respect for those very people to the extreme point of getting sued by the group of said victims in an attempt to restrain said lunancy from being imposed on said group.

Now there in lies the obvious target of any and all worthy conversations of vague, confused, hidden or ulterior motives.

That right there is funny!

[darell1976]

FYP

Math wasn't working that early in the morning.

[darell1976]

Not apples to apples and I'm confident you know it..

Why isn't it? A school with a NA nickname taken away and had to be replaced. You think Alumni of GFC was thrilled to have the school be Knights back in 94?

[petey23]

Not apples to apples and I'm confident you know it..

I wouldn't be confident in him knowing and/or understanding much.

[yababy8]

I'd argue against the understandable and logical part, considering the whole settlement deal that kind of prevents it. And thousands of "good, god loving, productive members of society" voted to remove the name because it was in the best interest of the University and its student athletes.

Exactly!!! That's what good people do when they have a gun to their head with a lunatics finger on the trigger.

They give them what they want so others don't get hurt!!

More the reason we should maybe, just maybe, stand up for them. Just a bit?

Because you know, as I know, as we ALl KNOW what they gave up, what they sacrificed, is something they would really really really want back. They sure as f"ck aren't happy about any of it and not letting them keep the pictures on the wall of what they (we) lost is just further insulting them(us). Forcing another name on people is doing just that.

They don't want it!!! Kapeesh?

[iluvdebbies]

I wouldn't be confident in him knowing and/or understanding much.

^^^^^^^

THIS!!

[WiSioux]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/content/frank-burggraf-proud-name-meets-every-requirement-sioux

From today's paper...

[Shawn-O]

Wake me up when this BS is over, and chalk me up in the "indifferent" column.

[pontoonin]

Thanks to Frank. Good article.

[Oxbow6]

1. Wops

2. Satans

3. Redskins

 

 

 

 

Yah........I guess I can see where "Fighting Sioux" is as offensive as these to most.    

[jdub27]

Exactly!!! That's what good people do when they have a gun to their head with a lunatics finger on the trigger.

They give them what they want so others don't get hurt!!

More the reason we should maybe, just maybe, stand up for them. Just a bit?

Because you know, as I know, as we ALl KNOW what they gave up, what they sacrificed, is something they would really really really want back. They sure as f"ck aren't happy about any of it and not letting them keep the pictures on the wall of what they (we) lost is just further insulting them(us). Forcing another name on people is doing just that.

They don't want it!!! Kapeesh?

 

So your solution is to bring the name back at the expense of the student-athletes?

 

And I'm not sure what your point about pictures on the wall is?  Anything with historical significance remains, including some new stuff from the renovations.

[Fetch]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/content/frank-burggraf-proud-name-meets-every-requirement-sioux

[Chewey]

At least the motives of those that want to go without a new nickname are obvoius, understandable, logical and fair.

Conversely, the motive for forcing thousands upon thousands of good, god loving, productive members of society to have to live with this lunacy that was in the beginning justified in the name of protecting a group of offended people only to be exposed as actually without a bit of consideration or respect for those very people to the extreme point of getting sued by the group of said victims in an attempt to restrain said lunancy from being imposed on said group.

Now there in lies the obvious target of any and all worthy conversations of vague, confused, hidden or ulterior motives.

Yes.  That's the whole thing in the most simple, succinct and clear manner.  The irony, lunacy and hypocrisy of the "change the nickname" meme cause the position (charitably speaking) to be self-refuting and cause the argument to rise up in protest against itself. 

[Chewey]

So your solution is to bring the name back at the expense of the student-athletes?

 

And I'm not sure what your point about pictures on the wall is?  Anything with historical significance remains, including some new stuff from the renovations.

"Anything with historical significance remains...."

 

Except, of course, peoples' associations, remembrances and pride in "Fighting Sioux".  These must be disrespected for the sake of expediency and expunged as quickly as possible by the overnight selection of a new nickname to sate the quarrelsome, apoplectic dyspepsia of the very whiners who assaulted everyone with this nonsense in the first place.  People with cold, pallid slime in their heads will accept this.  People with functional gray matter with active electrons, neurons and pulsating synaptic animation will  not. 

[darell1976]

I guess some people forgot the baggage that nickname did bring especially after we lost tribal approval like recruiting (Dale Lennon said this), conference affiliattion (Big Sky Conference, if we brought the name back who says Fullerton wouldn't think about booting us out since they have Idaho back). The name is retired, you can still wear your Sioux gear whenever you want but a new name will be picked next year. If you don't support the teams after that because of the name, you aren't a fan of UND because no matter what nickname is picked the name North Dakota will NEVER change.

[Chewey]

the name North Dakota will NEVER change.

All the more reason to just keep in "North Dakota"

[TBR]

All the more reason to just keep in "North Dakota"

I agree, and I've yet to see substantiation of the assertion that merchandizing will take a disastrous hit in doing so.

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

I agree, and I've yet to see substantiation of the assertion that merchandizing will take a disastrous hit in doing so.

 

I haven't seen numbers (any open records geeks out there?), but I think it's fair to conclude that post-"retirement" licensing revenues have flattened.  Without a significant change in direction, you can extrapolate that into the foreseeable future.  The current gear is just not appealing to me as a consumer.  I warmed to the men's hockey sweaters over time, but frankly haven't spent a dime on anything else.  My home is littered with Sioux stuff that for now will simply wear out and go un-replaced.

 

Even a relatively unpopular name and logo (say, one with 40-60% fan support) will generate sales of merchandise.  Especially for students, newcomers, families and young children less acquainted with the past.  If you tie in a likable character or mascot, sales of kid-oriented stuff will absolutely skyrocket.  If the colors change (gasp!), then ring the cash register.  People will want to associate with the team -- I think that's human nature.  Throw in a couple of Frozen Four runs or even a title, and revenue will be flowing like crazy.

[MafiaMan]

I agree, and I've yet to see substantiation of the assertion that merchandizing will take a disastrous hit in doing so.

I think you're kidding yourself if you think sales of UND merchandise haven't gone in the tank since items with the Sioux logo on them have sold out. Ask the next sales floor person you see at Scheel's how UND merchandise is doing lately next time you're in there...

[Siouxphan27]

I think you're kidding yourself if you think sales of UND merchandise haven't gone in the tank since items with the Sioux logo on them have sold out. Ask the next sales floor person you see at Scheel's how UND merchandise is doing lately next time you're in there...

That's probably attributed to people buying lifetime supplies of Sioux stuff.

I also would like to see what this "big financial hit" is estimated to be if there is no new nickname.

My guess is the number of donors that feel even further alienated by having some new nickname forced on them and thus quit giving or lower their amount, will outweigh selling a few extra sweatshirts that say "UND... <insert dumb nickname here>."

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

That's probably attributed to people buying lifetime supplies of Sioux stuff.

I also would like to see what this "big financial hit" is estimated to be if there is no new nickname.

My guess is the number of donors that feel even further alienated by having some new nickname forced on them and thus quit giving or lower their amount, will outweigh selling a few extra sweatshirts that say "UND... <insert dumb nickname here>."

 

Now you're talking apples and oranges.  I, too, would be interested to know if there has been a demonstrable drop in donations that could be tied to the nickname issue.  Keep in mind you have to balance that against new donors who were put off by the name.

 

But I think the licensing revenue is an entirely different subject.  Yes, there was almost certainly a bump or spike when the market was flooded in anticipation of a change and people bought up Sioux gear left and right for emotional reasons.  UND is now in a valley with what I suspect are low sales of bland merchandise, and there are only two sources of new revenue:  reactivating Sioux licenses for legacy goods, which has never been off the table, and launching a successful new brand.

 

I agree that a poorly conceived name and logo is unlikely to reap tremendous licensing benefits.  But in my opinion, any sort of product is better than what's out there now.  You have to fill the void in the marketplace with something, and sales (and revenue) will follow.  If the UND brand is even remotely appealing, I will be among the first in line to buy some stuff.  My point earlier is that I don't think I'm alone.

[The Sicatoka]

Noise:

You're being rational/logical, not emotion driven; hence, you are clearly wrong.