Petitions

[UNDBIZ]

And no I do not approve of dressing up as a Nazi and that was a poor decision by Ralph and those in attendance at the party.

[Siouxperfan7]

If the teabaggers were a real party and power why do they need to ride on the Republican coat tails in lieu of standing on their own platform?

Sorry to point out your ignorance once again, but there is no such party or movement known as the teabagger party. They are actually called the Tea Party. But you must have known that...right? Oh I see what you have done. You have turned the actual name into something that you might here on the playground by a 3rd grader. Glad to see people like you stoop to the level of a child. Nice work buddy!! Of course maybe you are a 3rd grader...so if that's the case I apologize.

[The Sicatoka]

And no I do not approve of dressing up as a Nazi ...

Werner Klemperer and John Banner?

How about Mel Brooks having folks dress up as Nazis in "The Producers"?

Hugo Weaving?

Context people. Context.

[watchmaker49]

Sorry to point out your ignorance once again, but there is no such party or movement known as the teabagger party. They are actually called the Tea Party. But you must have known that...right? Oh I see what you have done. You have turned the actual name into something that you might here on the playground by a 3rd grader. Glad to see people like you stoop to the level of a child. Nice work buddy!! Of course maybe you are a 3rd grader...so if that's the case I apologize.

Funny but the media does not call it the Tea Party because the are not an offical political party. They are known more as the teabaggers than the Tea Party. The only place the are called the Tea Party, which is not correct, is FauxNews and other rightwingnut sites.

[Snake]

Funny but the media does not call it the Tea Party because the are not an offical political party. They are known more as the teabaggers than the Tea Party. The only place the are called the Tea Party, which is not correct, is FauxNews and other rightwingnut sites.

Funny how you chastise everyone here for the term "PN," but you have no problem slinging the word "teabagger" around.

[jimdahl]

Funny but the media does not call it the Tea Party because the are not an offical political party. They are known more as the teabaggers than the Tea Party. The only place the are called the Tea Party, which is not correct, is FauxNews and other rightwingnut sites.

You may not hear it on campus but you do throughout the rest of the state. Of course I have no proof the REA is behind it but they are still controlled by a racist Nazi loving freak. You really believe that they could not be the power behind the curtain?

Stop with the tired Ralph was a Nazi troll, stop with the crude slang, and stop with the partisan politics. All are unwelcome on this forum.

Edit -- discussion of forum rules and policies is welcome in the appropriate forum (the SiouxSports.com Administration forum) but not here.

[Bison Dan]

Funny but the media does not call it the Tea Party because the are not an offical political party. They are known more as the teabaggers than the Tea Party. The only place the are called the Tea Party, which is not correct, is FauxNews and other rightwingnut sites.

The tea party is made up of all parties and are taxpayers who are fed up with the level of government spending. We need a top to bottom review of every government program and sort out what works and what doesn't. It isn't that the tea party doesn't want to pay their taxes - they just want their tax dollars to work well. I think most people feel if the waste and duplicity are cut out, the government has all the money they need.

[Goon]

FauxNews and Rush do not count in reality.

Wow! You’re really not very smart are you? I have a real job, I don't have time to listen to Rush Limbaugh... I am smart enough to form my own ideas without having to listen to Rush. Thanks for playing Skippy. What are you going to do for an encore? What about your crescendo? Are you going to tell me that you get your talking points from the Daily Kooks and MSLSD?

Edited January 4, 2012 by Goon

[Goon]

Funny but the media does not call it the Tea Party because the are not an offical political party. They are known more as the teabaggers than the Tea Party. The only place the are called the Tea Party, which is not correct, is FauxNews and other rightwingnut sites.

No Skippy that is what the Leftwing call the Tea Party Patriots.

[fightingsioux4life]

Getting back on topic.......

Does anyone else find it interesting that the Petitioners went as far as to take REA, Inc. to court to be allowed to collect signatures there? This tells me that they are having trouble getting the signatures they will need to get this on the ballot; otherwise I don't think they would be spending the time and money (both of which they don't have much of) to get a judge to order REA to let them on area grounds. I could be wrong about this, but that is my hunch.

[The Sicatoka]

Getting back on topic.......

Does anyone else find it interesting that the Petitioners went as far as to take REA, Inc. to court to be allowed to collect signatures there? This tells me that they are having trouble getting the signatures they will need to get this on the ballot; otherwise I don't think they would be spending the time and money (both of which they don't have much of) to get a judge to order REA to let them on area grounds. I could be wrong about this, but that is my hunch.

I'd say either your hypothesis, or they're looking to "cherry pick", is the answer. I'd lean toward your hypothesis however.

[ScottM]

Getting back on topic....... Does anyone else find it interesting that the Petitioners went as far as to take REA, Inc. to court to be allowed to collect signatures there? This tells me that they are having trouble getting the signatures they will need to get this on the ballot; otherwise I don't think they would be spending the time and money (both of which they don't have much of) to get a judge to order REA to let them on area grounds. I could be wrong about this, but that is my hunch.

I haven't lived in NoDak for years, but my recollection is that the winners on initiatives were usually those that had the money and organization to effectively press their case with the voters. These guys don't really impress me so much, especially since those pushing the drive are also litigating the matter.

Perhaps if these people hadn't wasted so much time and energy, and blew so much smoke, after the fight was really over, the result might not be the same. Instead, they now resort to petition drives, conspriracy theories and the graspsing of straws ... meanwhile, nary a word from those who could actually stare down the NC$$ ...

What really sucks is that UND, the alumni association and others who see the pitiful reality of the situation may be forced to effectively disown the Sioux nickname in a very public fashion and take on the mantle of nickname opponents.

[The Sicatoka]

What really sucks is that UND, the alumni association and others who see the pitiful reality of the situation may be forced to effectively disown the Sioux nickname in a very public fashion and take on the mantle of nickname opponents.

Yes, this thing is making some "strange bedfellows" and some interesting positions, the one that stands out to me being REA Inc. (assumably pro-moniker) battling the "save the moniker" crew in court to prevent them from bringing petitions for signing to REA.

[wsdSIOUXfalls]

Yes, this thing is making some "strange bedfellows" and some interesting positions, the one that stands out to me being REA Inc. (assumably pro-moniker) battling the "save the moniker" crew in court to prevent them from bringing petitions for signing to REA.

I believe I heard that the arena has a policy not to allow ANY petitions on-site, as allowing one group in with petitions would open the door to many others... It says nothing about their stance on the Fighting Sioux name.

[Teeder11]

I believe I heard that the arena has a policy not to allow ANY petitions on-site, as allowing one group in with petitions would open the door to many others... It says nothing about their stance on the Fighting Sioux name.

I am sure is Sic is very aware of this. His point about this whole thing creating "strange bedfellows," and in this case, somewhat estranged bedfellows, is spot on.

[GeauxSioux]

i just heard on KNOX the judge said NO on allowing petitions inside REA.

[darell1976]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/226517/

Sponsors of petition drives aimed at restoring UND’s Fighting Sioux nickname and logo may not seek petition signatures inside Ralph Engelstad Arena this weekend, a judge has ruled

[Chewey]

Lots of signatures were probably obtained anyway, as I understand it. In particular, this decision may have motivated people to sign and may have pissed them off.

[jdub27]

They were outside before the women's game this afternoon with an air horn, blowing it to get attention. I found it off-putting, but to each his own I guess.

[iramurphy]

At hockey game last night and witnessed what is sad about the entire issue. In line to use rest room and one guy started by claiming he was going to kick the !@#$ out of the first Gopher fan he saw. (wasn't going to happen because I would not have allowed him to do that and secondly because when one went by and the other guy pointed out a Gopher fan, he just kept shooting off his big mouth but did nothing). Then he said would kick the !@#$ out of the refs. Embarassing to know we have Sioux fans with no class and no brains. He and the other guy then started spouting crap about Kelly, Faison and how the whole problem with the Sioux name was caused by the democrats. I told them signing the pertition would hurt UND hockey, UND and the University. I told them hockey would lose their chance to schedule games against the gophers, and badgers and whatever other PC teams won't play us if we remain on the NCAA sanction list. The only answer the short fat guy had was "you are just a FB guy". The other idiot claimed UND FB lost $1.8 million last year. I asked where he came up with crap like that and he said he had "an inside source". I told him I bet $100 he was wrong and he wanted to make it $200. I tried to tell him we could easily find a UND official to verify the answer but he disappeared. He reminds me of the people like Graham Cracker and Windy Boy who would say anything regardless of the truth to try and get people to drop the name only he claims to be a UND fan. He walked out spouting that none of this would have happened if Ralph were still alive. Ralph like many of us wanted the name to stay but the future of UND hockey is much more important than the name and he would have known that. He also would have known that UND athletics and UND are more important than the name itself. You don't get to be a billionaire without knowing when to cut your losses and move on.

Whether we can figure out a way to reinstate the name or not the answer is not to restrict UND by some stupid law. The answer is to let the legal action by Spirit Lake to run its course. It doesn't take long to lose our edge and its tough to get it back. UND hockey is positioned for success but if we start playing weaker schedules and we no longer play the gophers and badgers we will likely lose recruits. Those are factors kids and their families look at when they choose a school.

Refusing to sign this idiot petition does no harm to the chance we might be able to get the name back in the future. What it will do is possibly put UND in a position of weaker hockey schedules, recruiting barriers and definite problems for all of the other UND sports.

We need to keep our heads out of our colons and stay the course but do so in an intelligent manner. Emotions out of control gets people killed in wartime. That is a good lesson to remember as we move forward. We can't afford to win the name war and lose the battle of keeping UND hockey the premier program in the country and UND and UND athletics a premier educational institution. It is time to move past the middle school mentality of who to blame and make sure we are positioned to make the right moves if and when their is a real opportunity to reinstate the name permanently or if not position our entire athletic dept. for success.

[UND Fan]

Well said, Ira!

[Chewey]

<p>

<br />

At hockey game last night and witnessed what is sad about the entire issue.&nbsp;&nbsp;In line to use rest room and one guy started by claiming he was going to kick the !@#$ out of the first Gopher fan he saw. (wasn't going to happen because I would not have allowed him to do that and secondly because when one went by and the other guy pointed out a Gopher fan, he just kept shooting off his big mouth but did nothing). Then he said would kick the !@#$ out of the refs. Embarassing to know we have Sioux fans with no class and no brains.&nbsp;&nbsp;He and the other guy then started spouting crap about Kelly, Faison and how the whole problem with the Sioux name was caused by the democrats.&nbsp;&nbsp;I told them signing the pertition would hurt UND hockey, UND and the University.&nbsp;&nbsp;I told them hockey would lose their chance to schedule games against the gophers, and badgers and whatever other PC teams won't play us if we remain on the NCAA sanction list. The only answer the short fat guy had was &quot;you are just a FB guy&quot;.&nbsp;&nbsp;The other idiot claimed UND FB lost $1.8 million last year.&nbsp;&nbsp;I asked where he came up with crap like that and he said he had &quot;an inside source&quot;.&nbsp;&nbsp;I told him I bet $100 he was wrong and he wanted to make it $200.&nbsp;&nbsp;I tried to tell him we could easily find a UND official to verify the answer but he disappeared.&nbsp;&nbsp;He&nbsp;&nbsp; reminds me of the people like Graham Cracker and Windy Boy who would say anything regardless of the truth to try and get people to drop the name only he claims to be a UND fan. He walked out spouting that none of this would have happened if Ralph were still alive. Ralph like many of us wanted the name to stay but the future of UND hockey is much more important than the name and he would have known that.&nbsp;&nbsp;He also would have known that UND athletics and UND are more important than the name itself.&nbsp;&nbsp;You don't get to be a billionaire without knowing when to cut your losses and move on.<br />

Whether we can figure out a way to reinstate the name or not the answer is not to restrict UND by some stupid law.&nbsp;&nbsp;The answer is to let the legal action by Spirit Lake to run its course. It doesn't take long to lose our edge and its tough to get it back.&nbsp;&nbsp;UND hockey is positioned for success but if we start playing weaker schedules and we no longer play the gophers and badgers we will likely lose recruits.&nbsp;&nbsp;Those are factors kids and their families look at when they choose a school.<br />

Refusing to sign this idiot petition does no harm to the chance we might be able to get the name back in the future.&nbsp;&nbsp;What it will do is possibly put UND in a position of weaker hockey schedules, recruiting barriers and definite problems for all of the other UND sports.<br />

We need to keep our heads out of our colons and stay the course but do so in an intelligent manner.&nbsp;&nbsp;Emotions out of control gets people killed in wartime.&nbsp;&nbsp;That is a good lesson to remember as we move forward.&nbsp;&nbsp;We can't afford to win the name war and lose the battle of keeping UND hockey the premier program in the country and UND and UND athletics a premier educational institution.&nbsp;&nbsp;It is time to move past the middle school mentality of who to blame and make sure we are positioned to make the right moves if and when their is a real opportunity to reinstate the name permanently or if not position our entire athletic dept. for success.<br />

</p>

<p>&nbsp;</p>

The litigation will run its course. &nbsp;The NCAA may get a couple of claims thrown out but some will remain. &nbsp;The ravings of a couple of drunk fools constitute a poor basis upon which to make factual conclusions about the petition process or about people who support and effectuate it. &nbsp;The U of M, U of W, etc. are, without a doubt and without the need for any court determination, publicly funded institutions. &nbsp;Both of these schools have already stuck their collective feet in their mouths with their previous public statements (and, WI recently - around 2 months ago and irrespective of this issue - stated that it would continue playing UND in hockey) and neither has said nary a word about it since. &nbsp;Finally, someone smarter than a long-winded, out of touch academician is advising them evidently. &nbsp;To the extent that any refusal to play UND can be tied to the NCAA &quot;best practices policy&quot;, what do you think that does to the anti-trust and even the state actor claims vis-a-vis the NCAA? &nbsp;Certainly, such claims would not be hurt by it. &nbsp;</p>

<p>&nbsp;</p>

The NCAA has said that this is a state issue and it is being dealt with at the state level. It makes no sense to have victory in Court only to have Kelley and Faison and Shaft indicate that we've already retired the name, so it's all water over the dam now. After the misdirection play they employed concerning the Big Sky Conference and Shaft's factually unsupported statements vis-a-vis Notre Dame being concerned about the nickname and logo, I doubt there's much credibility in that triumvirate. How is reinstating the nickname and logo if and when a court victory is achieved furthered by retiring the nickname hastily, even though there's a three year window, only to have people give the Spirit Lake Tribe an atta-boy pat on the back and indicate that we can't endure this emotional trauma again so we're not bringing it back? If you have Faison, Kelley and Shaft indicate that they will agree to resume the nickname and logo if and when a court victory is realized, then your argument has more merit. Expedient disassociation with the nickname and logo and getting them out of sight and out of mind (or so they think) and disrespecting the wishes of the many Native Americans who wish to retain them (under the cover of the NCAA is making us do it) is the only course they intend to follow.

[darell1976]

24 days to get at least 6500 signatures (according to the people with the petitions they are at the halfway point).

[The Sicatoka]

And here is the crux of the situation:

Whether we can figure out a way to reinstate the name or not the answer is not to restrict UND by some stupid law. The answer is to let the legal action by Spirit Lake to run its course.

Such a law, without a change in NCAA policy, harms UND. I will not harm UND. And the NCAA has shown that they will not and do not have to follow ND law (see: Al Carlson's fiasco).

Efforts by SL beyond their lawsuit are misefforted and misguided. I say this because they want the power over the nickname, yet, they are trying to give some of that power (via petitions and a vote) to the voters of ND.

SL needs to focus on the lawsuit and only the lawsuit. That solves the whole situation: the NCAA loses in Federal court and SL gets all the power.

It's pretty simple, yet so few see it.

[watchmaker49]

And here is the crux of the situation:

Such a law, without a change in NCAA policy, harms UND. I will not harm UND. And the NCAA has shown that they will not and do not have to follow ND law (see: Al Carlson's fiasco).

Efforts by SL beyond their lawsuit are misefforted and misguided. I say this because they want the power over the nickname, yet, they are trying to give some of that power (via petitions and a vote) to the voters of ND.

SL needs to focus on the lawsuit and only the lawsuit. That solves the whole situation: the NCAA loses in Federal court and SL gets all the power.

It's pretty simple, yet so few see it.

Denial is a wonderful emotion.

I am still trying to understand how this law, if passed, over rides the ND State Constitution?