University of North Dakota Hockey 2019-20 Season

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

I was going to go to the season opener tailgate and football game to cheer on the green and white but I've decided it just isn't worth it anymore.  I mean, the UND hockey beat writer tweeted out a photo about the ice going in(which he does every year).  After seeing that scoreboard, I'm not excited for football anymore.  It's taken all of the spotlight.

[Teeder11]

18 minutes ago, InHeavenThereIsNoBeer said:

I was going to go to the season opener tailgate and football game to cheer on the green and white but I've decided it just isn't worth it anymore.  I mean, the UND hockey beat writer tweeted out a photo about the ice going in(which he does every year).  After seeing that scoreboard, I'm not excited for football anymore.  It's taken all of the spotlight.

Go Fighting Hawks!

[sethhag]

19 hours ago, Emerald joker said:

i was wondering looking at this picture, is the score board going to obstruct the view for the upper seats, will they be able to see across the ice?

as long as the 300 level fans can see both goals and the benches I think its fine, not being able to see other sections across the rink is probably not the ralphs biggest concern

[UND-MH-Fan]

First of all, as a college hockey fanatic I can say I have seen about 20 posts from college hockey programs across the nation posting pics on their twitter accounts about their home ice being in. They do it every year, it’s a big step towards the start of the season. It takes nothing away from the football team. It was posted in a college hockey thread not football. Second thing is, I know the Engelstad’s paid for part of the new scoreboard, but the other half came from the Ralph fund for constant updating. The only way for the Ralph to keep that fund filled with money is to get people hyped about all the new upgrades and the upcoming season. Maybe the Ralph invited Brad down to write up a little story about it. Third of all, almost every college in the country has one favorite sport. UND’s just happen to be hockey. Deal with it. Go Hawks football! Also Go Fighting Sioux hockey!

[Benny Baker]

3 hours ago, jdub27 said:

I'd say being born on third and thinking you hit a triple is a hell of a thing but that takes a bit much from the hockey team. They were the team that was set up to succeed being given every advantage their is. Take away their $100+ million gift and things are significantly different. They weren't the cash cow until the new arena showed up.

You're confusing Penn State/ASU with UND.

"Given every advantage their is".  What on Earth are you . . . ?

The history behind UND's hockey program is about as grassroots as it gets.  UND hockey started at home plate and hit a frickin home run. 7 national titles before their $100+ million gift.

[jdub27]

1 hour ago, Benny Baker said:

You're confusing Penn State/ASU with UND.

"Given every advantage their is".  What on Earth are you . . . ?

The history behind UND's hockey program is about as grassroots as it gets.  UND hockey started at home plate and hit a frickin home run. 7 national titles before their $100+ million gift.

My reference was specifically to them being a cash cow, which what the defense of them being criticized was about. They were nowhere near that until the gift and nothing shows they would have been. Their success before the gift is why I specifically said the analogy wasn't an exact match as it did a disservice to their history but applicable in their ability to generate cash. 

That being said, what advantage haven't they had in the last 18 seasons? If they were hitting home runs with 7 national championships pulling themselves up by the but straps before the gift, how would you describe results since then?

For the record, whatever about Brad's tweet. I get the sentiment and it wouldn't have mattered if it waited a few days but Brad needs things to write about and the Herald has had excellent coverage of football the last few weeks. The team needs to win (that goes for football and hockey). 

[Benny Baker]

15 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

My reference was specifically to them being a cash cow, which what the defense of them being criticized was about. They were nowhere near that until the gift and nothing shows they would have been. Their success before the gift is why I specifically said the analogy wasn't an exact match as it did a disservice to their history but applicable in their ability to generate cash. 

That being said, what advantage haven't they had in the last 18 seasons? If they were hitting home runs with 7 national championships pulling themselves up by the but straps before the gift, how would you describe results since then?

For the record, whatever about Brad's tweet. I get the sentiment and it wouldn't have mattered if it waited a few days but Brad needs things to write about and the Herald has had excellent coverage of football the last few weeks. The team needs to win (that goes for football and hockey). 

How would I describe the results since then?  Still hitting home runs: 17 consecutive winning seasons, 8 frozen four appearances, 5 league titles, and, as you know, their 8th national title just three years ago.

[jdub27]

39 minutes ago, Benny Baker said:

How would I describe the results since then?  Still hitting home runs: 17 consecutive winning seasons, 8 frozen four appearances, 5 league titles, and, as you know, their 8th national title just three years ago.

While I actually agree with you, I was specifically pointing at national titles since that was the measure you originally used. 1 in the last 18 years given the resources, is disappointing, especially since they "started at home plate and hit a frickin home run. 7 national titles before their $100+ million gift." 

The gift allowed them to become a cash cow (the original point) but didn't exactly accelerate national championships (apparently your point).

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

16 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

While I actually agree with you, I was specifically pointing at national titles since that was the measure you originally used. 1 in the last 18 years given the resources, is disappointing, especially since they "started at home plate and hit a frickin home run. 7 national titles before their $100+ million gift." 

The gift allowed them to become a cash cow (the original point) but didn't exactly accelerate national championships (apparently your point).

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. 

On one hand, UND started on 3rd and was handed everything so their success shouldn't be a surprise. On the other hand, they're a failure since starting on 3rd and being given the cash cow. Which is it?

[stoneySIOUX]

19 hours ago, fightingsioux4life said:

And according to some people, it's the only program that matters. This attitude needs to change.

Btw, forcing hockey upon football fans is just as objectionable.

Who's forcing anything? Why does that attitude have to change?

[stoneySIOUX]

17 hours ago, NoiseInsideMyHead said:

And that story has been covered ad nauseam.

A little restraint all around would have been nice.  Show some respect for the football program and the other fall sports during the first week of classes.  Hockey will be front and center soon enough.

You're in a hockey thread. I'm so confused.

[jdub27]

17 minutes ago, InHeavenThereIsNoBeer said:

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. 

On one hand, UND started on 3rd and was handed everything so their success shouldn't be a surprise. On the other hand, they're a failure since being given the cash cow. Which is it?

Because it is two separate points and both can be true?

They started on 3rd with their ability to be a cash cow over the last 18 years (again, that was the point of the original comment I responded to). Their history prior to that proves the point. and their ability generate the cash that they currently do does not happen without that gift. Trying to knock other programs because they don't provide as much revenue is an unfair comparison given the incredible advantage men's hockey has been given to generate that revenue. No denying that for the majority of those years, their on ice success has helped drive that, but again, without the REA, it is a different story. There is no reason their should be multiple down years given the advantages UND has in the hockey world so their success, outside of national championships, shouldn't be a surprise. They have the resources to be in the hunt 90-95% of the time, which they have done.

The rebuttal was that they "started at home plate and hit a frickin home run. 7 national titles before their $100+ million gift." I didn't set the measurement at national titles and there is no arguing that 7 titles in 55 years playing in the Winter Sports building and the old REA is impressive. However 1 title in 18 years playing in one of the nicest arenas in the world is disappointing when you are strictly talking national championships. I was one who was supportive of Hak because he always had UND in a position to get one and given the nature of the NCAA tournament, I'll take his results and that chance every day. 

[stoneySIOUX]

4 hours ago, NoiseInsideMyHead said:

As the resident pot stirrer, I will take one more shot and then let the dust settle for another year.

Hockey stealing football's thunder before the season even gets rolling is nothing new; I've raised it here before.  Seems there's always a "big story" to be told in August...ice in, logo off ice, logo on ice, these jerseys, those jerseys.  Scoreboard up and operational is old news, of course.  But, ice glistening under the new scoreboard appears to be this year's ill-timed entrant.  It could have waited a few weeks -- no harm, no foul.

My only real question is the timing.  Why can't the Herald, and the REA, and even UND do more to promote football (even if by doing less, or nothing).  Maybe the Herald could double- or triple-down on FB coverage, for just a week or two.  Tom Miller has shown some versatility, and I suspect Brad does as well.  A simple, friendly moratorium on hockey news (barring something really significant) is not that much to ask.  Writers and editors pouncing on borderline hockey news for clicks and likes is just low hanging journalistic fruit.

Money talks and UND hockey sells. Especially in a newspaper world that is struggling to create money. It's really that simple. Hockey drives the most revenue for the paper. 

[SiouxFanatic]

I propose the entire Men's Hockey board be closed until at least the 2nd week of the football season. Too much attention is being diverted away from the football board. There's no reason why hockey needs to be discussed so early. 

/sarcasm

[stoneySIOUX]

4 minutes ago, SiouxFanatic said:

I propose the entire Men's Hockey board be closed until at least the 2nd week of the football season. Too much attention is being diverted away from the football board. There's no reason why hockey needs to be discussed so early. 

/sarcasm

Funniest part about this ... It's taking away attention from the football threads.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

4 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Because it is two separate points and both can be true?

They started on 3rd with their ability to be a cash cow over the last 18 years (again, that was the point of the original comment I responded to). Their history prior to that proves the point. and their ability generate the cash that they currently do does not happen without that gift. Trying to knock other programs because they don't provide as much revenue is an unfair comparison given the incredible advantage men's hockey has been given to generate that revenue. No denying that for the majority of those years, their on ice success has helped drive that, but again, without the REA, it is a different story. There is no reason their should be multiple down years given the advantages UND has in the hockey world so their success, outside of national championships, shouldn't be a surprise. They have the resources to be in the hunt 90-95% of the time, which they have done.

The rebuttal was that they "started at home plate and hit a frickin home run. 7 national titles before their $100+ million gift." I didn't set the measurement at national titles and there is no arguing that 7 titles in 55 years playing in the Winter Sports building and the old REA is impressive. However 1 title in 18 years playing in one of the nicest arenas in the world is disappointing when you are strictly talking national championships. I was one who was supportive of Hak because he always had UND in a position to get one and given the nature of the NCAA tournament, I'll take his results and that chance every day. 

Ok, I think I misunderstood then. What I thought you were saying was that the only reason they have had success in attracting fans/revenue is The Ralph. In my eyes, The Ralph is a consequence of the program/tradition of winning that has been built, not a cause. 

[Benny Baker]

58 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

While I actually agree with you, I was specifically pointing at national titles since that was the measure you originally used. 1 in the last 18 years given the resources, is disappointing, especially since they "started at home plate and hit a frickin home run. 7 national titles before their $100+ million gift." 

The gift allowed them to become a cash cow (the original point) but didn't exactly accelerate national championships (apparently your point).

Nope, you missed the point.

[Benny Baker]

Is UND hockey really a "cash cow"?  I thought the hockey budget breaks about even.

[skateshattrick]

12 minutes ago, Benny Baker said:

Is UND hockey really a "cash cow"?  I thought the hockey budget breaks about even.

Yes. It is very far in the black. The football program is very far in the red. 

[Benny Baker]

2 minutes ago, skateshattrick said:

Yes. It is very far in the black. The football program is very far in the red. 

Thanks.

I'm probably not recalling correctly, but I thought there was reporting about two years ago during the department cuts that showed both programs ran a loss.  Hockey very slightly, but football very far in the red like you said.

[UNDColorado]

To Schloss' credit, he and Miller just put together a 35 minute podcast specifically about football. Link in the 2019 season football thread.

[jdub27]

1 hour ago, Benny Baker said:

Is UND hockey really a "cash cow"?  I thought the hockey budget breaks about even.

Very much depends on which method of accounting you use. Specifically how you allocate Champions Club memberships and REA usage expenses/ticket revenue as per the REA usage agreement. The numbers can say whatever is convenient for the person putting them together.

[Siouxperfan7]

Getting back on track, I have no problem with Schloss's tweet.  It is the first picture of the new scoreboard with the ice in.  It's not stealing thunder.  We live in a word where everything is news and everything can be tweeted.  both pictures of the scoreboard and the opening football game of the season can both exist at the same time without stepping on each other and stealing thunder.  If this is a front page article on the Herald, then you have some gripe.  But its just a tweet.

 

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

18 minutes ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

It's just a tweet.

 

This was all you needed to say  but agree 100% 

[AlphaMikeFoxtrot]

Word on the street is Forum papers, including the Herald, will be subscription-based access in the near future. Probably why Brad isn't updating his areavoices site anymore.