Who would UND hire?

[SWSiouxMN]

6 minutes ago, SiouxForever said:

It’s the same story every year. Winning and getting better just hasn’t caught on.

What’s a successful year this year? Make the playoffs, make the playoffs and win one game? Not making the playoffs and the program takes a step backwards…

I’’m willing to support the UND football program but if you want the Alerus Center full one day, a winning team/culture that can do some damage is much needed. 

I realize it’s a process but let’s say this year team misses playoffs, is the program/recruiting getting better? Or do we keep selling/marketing the program saying it is without results? 

Come on Bubba and coaches. Make a run one year and be the talk of the town Are we/you doing your best? Incremental improvement to me has been really disappointing.

Wts, I knew yesterdays game would be tough but so are the remaining games.

 Simple question, are we actually getting better? 

 

 

 

 

To me, it's a failure of what I call the Steely Dan Principal:

They didn't it go back jack and do it again.

Review the two most successful years so far in UND D1 History

2016: Win the Big Sky, the next season they went 3-8

2021 Spring Season: A share of MVFC and a playoff win.  Then went 5-6 in the fall.

Can't make progress if you are taking 1 step forward and 1 step back. 

  

 

[sioux24/7]

21 minutes ago, SWSiouxMN said:

Okay, I'll bite

If UND was going to be serious about this:  They open up the pocketbooks*, drive down to St. Paul and give Caruso whatever he wants to come to Grand Forks.

*Everybody's got a price, so meet it.

Don't know who the newbie coaches are in the NSIC that could make the jump.  Hoffner is 56 and probably wants to retire in Kato.   

 

Does UND have the pocketbook for Caruso? I would doubt it. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

25 minutes ago, SWSiouxMN said:

Okay, I'll bite

If UND was going to be serious about this:  They open up the pocketbooks*, drive down to St. Paul and give Caruso whatever he wants to come to Grand Forks.

*Everybody's got a price, so meet it.

Don't know who the newbie coaches are in the NSIC that could make the jump.  Hoffner is 56 and probably wants to retire in Kato.   

 

The search area doesn’t just need to be in North Dakota/Minnesota. That’s the kind of small minded approach that keeps UND football a non-contender. 

If you look at the top D2 coaches, who have led winning programs for at least a couple years, they aren’t way off, though, either; includes places like Michigan and Missouri. 

[SWSiouxMN]

1 minute ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

The search area doesn’t just need to be in North Dakota/Minnesota. That’s the kind of small minded approach that keeps UND football a non-contender. 

If you look at the top D2 coaches, who have led winning programs for at least a couple years, they aren’t way off, though, either; includes places like Michigan and Missouri. 

Fair point.  

 

[sioux24/7]

Package deal of Rich Wright and Ben McCollum from Northwest Missouri St. 

I’m still holding out hope for Sather but this is a big year for him too. I know wrong thread. 

[SiouxFanSince1990]

Start a petition to out Bubba? Protest with our feet, and don’t go to home games? it’s going to be mediocrity for the next decade if we don’t make a change now.

[iramurphy]

6 minutes ago, sioux24/7 said:

Does UND have the pocketbook for Caruso? I would doubt it. 

What about all the folks who keep calling for a new coach?  They want change as long as someone else pays for it. If Bubba has a contract through 2025 then this is just is a waste of time. If you want changes write a check for 6 figures to get us started and we can try to find 10-20 others. 
The same suspects call for coaching changes when any of our teams aren’t doing well. Sometimes warranted, usually not. Most show no insight into either the sport nor coaching but that’s what they see on ESPN. What ESPN doesn’t usually stress is the millions it costs schools to make coaching changes when there are unexpired multi-year contracts. It’s less expensive to provide the funds for coaching salary upgrades including assistant coaches, but instead of the “we should have… or what if… “ it doesn’t seem that those with the financial resources to do write the checks. That doesn’t mean fans who aren’t constantly clamoring for change every time we fail are any less upset than those who seem to think it means they are happy with mediocrity. (It may mean if we aren’t playing or coaching we have higher priorities).  We still have a long way to go to reach the level of excellence and consistency we all want. I’m not going to write a check for $1million or even $100,000 right now so I will support this team and coaching staff as long as they are in place. Lots of reasons to criticize and be frustrated but frankly our kids laid an egg. They didn’t play up to their ability and if we don’t do that, we will struggle to win in this league. 

[Sioux>Bison]

19 hours ago, fightingsioux4life said:

So we just give up? Quitters never win and winners never quit.

We going to fund UND like an elite program? If not then you get what you get!

[SiouxForever]

1 hour ago, iramurphy said:

What about all the folks who keep calling for a new coach?  They want change as long as someone else pays for it. If Bubba has a contract through 2025 then this is just is a waste of time. If you want changes write a check for 6 figures to get us started and we can try to find 10-20 others. 
The same suspects call for coaching changes when any of our teams aren’t doing well. Sometimes warranted, usually not. Most show no insight into either the sport nor coaching but that’s what they see on ESPN. What ESPN doesn’t usually stress is the millions it costs schools to make coaching changes when there are unexpired multi-year contracts. It’s less expensive to provide the funds for coaching salary upgrades including assistant coaches, but instead of the “we should have… or what if… “ it doesn’t seem that those with the financial resources to do write the checks. That doesn’t mean fans who aren’t constantly clamoring for change every time we fail are any less upset than those who seem to think it means they are happy with mediocrity. (It may mean if we aren’t playing or coaching we have higher priorities).  We still have a long way to go to reach the level of excellence and consistency we all want. I’m not going to write a check for $1million or even $100,000 right now so I will support this team and coaching staff as long as they are in place. Lots of reasons to criticize and be frustrated but frankly our kids laid an egg. They didn’t play up to their ability and if we don’t do that, we will struggle to win in this league. 

More money for coaches isn't the answer, it would help. Bubba is who he is, he's had a lot of time with the program, he got his extension etc. and he's had quite the leash.

If they miss the playoffs this year again, are we better off today than yesterday? I would say no. UND football (don't quote me) appears to have more resources than in years past. When I was a student, the team didn't have the high performance center for example. Excuses have to end eventually.

Roger Thomas and Dale Lenon did more with less, no? 

 

[Sioux>Bison]

5 hours ago, zonadub said:

 

Oh, and I forgot the most obvious one…

 

WASHINGTON!

 

 

and it is actually working out for Minnesota 

 

5 hours ago, zonadub said:

 

Oh, and I forgot the most obvious one…

 

WASHINGTON!

 

 

and it is actually working out for Minnesota 

All those teams hired coaches from the G5. We ain’t getting those coaches at UND. We could try to hire the next up and coming D2 coach but that doesn’t mean success will be guaranteed. They would still need to recruit better talent to UND. Who are they going to out recruit?

[Sioux>Bison]

1 hour ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

The search area doesn’t just need to be in North Dakota/Minnesota. That’s the kind of small minded approach that keeps UND football a non-contender. 

If you look at the top D2 coaches, who have led winning programs for at least a couple years, they aren’t way off, though, either; includes places like Michigan and Missouri. 

They need to know how to recruit in our region. We going to change where we recruit?

[Sioux>Bison]

6 minutes ago, SiouxForever said:

More money for coaches isn't the answer, it would help. Bubba is who he is, he's had a lot of time with the program, he got his extension etc. and he's had quite the leash.

If they miss the playoffs this year again, are we better off today than yesterday? I would say no. UND football (don't quote me) appears to have more resources than in years past. When I was a student, the team didn't have the high performance center for example. Excuses have to end eventually.

Roger Thomas and Dale Lenon did more with less, no? 

 

UND was doing great under Thomas and Lennon until we failed to move up when everyone else did. Our facilities have never been the top compared to our competition. What did they do that  Bubba is not?

[Sioux>Bison]

1 hour ago, SiouxFanSince1990 said:

Start a petition to out Bubba? Protest with our feet, and don’t go to home games? it’s going to be mediocrity for the next decade if we don’t make a change now.

Great way to pit the program in a bigger hole, that is the complete opposite of what we need to do to help the program!

[Sioux>Bison]

1 hour ago, sioux24/7 said:

Package deal of Rich Wright and Ben McCollum from Northwest Missouri St. 

I’m still holding out hope for Sather but this is a big year for him too. I know wrong thread. 

Didn’t work out for BB so why not experiment with football too! Average funding creates average programs….. or worse!

[iramurphy]

10 minutes ago, SiouxForever said:

More money for coaches isn't the answer, it would help. Bubba is who he is, he's had a lot of time with the program, he got his extension etc. and he's had quite the leash.

If they miss the playoffs this year again, are we better off today than yesterday? I would say no. UND football (don't quote me) appears to have more resources than in years past. When I was a student, the team didn't have the high performance center for example. Excuses have to end eventually.

Roger Thomas and Dale Lenon did more with less, no? 

 

Points well taken. My point is it takes money to buy out a contract. then additional dollars to find a replacement staff. I can’t write those checks and I don’t expect someone else will. So in the meantime, I think we are better than yesterday, but no excuse for yesterday’s performance. 

[Sioux>Bison]

3 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

That’s not entirely true, but I get your point. Interestingly, both hired “their own” and it didn’t work out. 

But Nebraska can really have any coach they want because they have the tradition and Big Ten $$$$$$, Frost had a pretty good track record at UCF until he went to Nebraska. Who knew he would be a bust.

[fightingsioux4life]

2 hours ago, iramurphy said:

What about all the folks who keep calling for a new coach?  They want change as long as someone else pays for it. If Bubba has a contract through 2025 then this is just is a waste of time. If you want changes write a check for 6 figures to get us started and we can try to find 10-20 others. 
The same suspects call for coaching changes when any of our teams aren’t doing well. Sometimes warranted, usually not. Most show no insight into either the sport nor coaching but that’s what they see on ESPN. What ESPN doesn’t usually stress is the millions it costs schools to make coaching changes when there are unexpired multi-year contracts. It’s less expensive to provide the funds for coaching salary upgrades including assistant coaches, but instead of the “we should have… or what if… “ it doesn’t seem that those with the financial resources to do write the checks. That doesn’t mean fans who aren’t constantly clamoring for change every time we fail are any less upset than those who seem to think it means they are happy with mediocrity. (It may mean if we aren’t playing or coaching we have higher priorities).  We still have a long way to go to reach the level of excellence and consistency we all want. I’m not going to write a check for $1million or even $100,000 right now so I will support this team and coaching staff as long as they are in place. Lots of reasons to criticize and be frustrated but frankly our kids laid an egg. They didn’t play up to their ability and if we don’t do that, we will struggle to win in this league. 

How big of a sample size do you need? This program is 100% Bubba's now. And the same problems are still there. I used to defend Bubba on here all the time. Now I am not sure he is the long-term solution.

Any up and coming athletes from Detroit Lakes we should watch out for? We need all the help we can get.

[petey23]

Kevin Bullis

Vince Kehres

Geoff Dartt

Jeff Thorne

[iramurphy]

4 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

How big of a sample size do you need? This program is 100% Bubba's now. And the same problems are still there. I used to defend Bubba on here all the time. Now I am not sure he is the long-term solution.

Any up and coming athletes from Detroit Lakes we should watch out for? We need all the help we can get.

As I said, regardless of how I or others feel,  I don’t believe we are able to buy out his contract so in the meantime, there is no reason to either call for a change, especially those early in the season or speculate about replacements. Players need to play much better. No excuses for the mental errors, missed blocks, missed tackles and missed assignments. 
As to your other question, the Soph QB Caden Strand is a good athlete with a strong arm. He needs some fine tuning, especially his form but is a kid they need to get into camp. Too early to know about him. We also have a 6’3” 305lb OL Isaac Cariveau, who has quick feet, is smart and a good athlete. He started as a Freshman but missed most of last year with an ACL tear. Quick enough to play varsity BB as a Fr.  If he continues to improve this year and next he will play college ball D-1 or D-2. Also a Soph kicker who is accurate, with a strong leg. Good athlete and very bright. Dad walked in at UND when Roger Thomas coached. Too soon to tell but he is good enough to play D-2 now. 
DL also has another 3-4 kids who could play D-2 or D-3. 
 

[Mama Sue]

1 hour ago, Sioux>Bison said:

UND was doing great under Thomas and Lennon until we failed to move up when everyone else did. Our facilities have never been the top compared to our competition. What did they do that  Bubba is not?

True….

Also, IMHO RT handed DL a hard working, motivated team with a passion for winning. A passion that was team-wide not a few players. DL had little building to do. Bubba has had to build and rebuild. Then throw in an off-the-field event every 3 years….

[Irish]

1 hour ago, iramurphy said:

Points well taken. My point is it takes money to buy out a contract. then additional dollars to find a replacement staff. I can’t write those checks and I don’t expect someone else will. So in the meantime, I think we are better than yesterday, but no excuse for yesterday’s performance. 

You make excellent points about money - However the buyout costs are self inflicted on the program by Chaves.  And we have seen zero indication that he is demanding a winner.  Many donors feel that if they donate more no changes will be made and we are essentially funding more of the same.  Letting Muss go on for 6 years and now in the 9th year of Bubba Ball doesn't equate to a program that wants to be on top.  Chaves needs to shape up and lead.  

 

[Kab]

Buyouts won’t cost millions here

chaves has his orders, not sure who from but he’s not calling ALL the shots here 

[iramurphy]

5 minutes ago, Irish said:

You make excellent points about money - However the buyout costs are self inflicted on the program by Chaves.  And we have seen zero indication that he is demanding a winner.  Many donors feel that if they donate more no changes will be made and we are essentially funding more of the same.  Letting Muss go on for 6 years and now in the 9th year of Bubba Ball doesn't equate to a program that wants to be on top.  Chaves needs to shape up and lead.  

 

You may be surprised at what he is trying to do. He will be meeting with some key people this week. Muss decision was also an issue involving where we were as a program in transition. Same with Bubba. It’s tough to justify firing a guy whose teams won a Big Sky and a Missouri Valley Championship. In recent years. Transitioning from no conference to a makeshift conference to Big Sky to Missouri Valley disrupts the overall transition. Through in the fact that our fans and supporters haven’t adjusted to the support needed speed up the process and maintain consistency, then I tend to look at what else can I do as opposed to what should someone else do. It has worked for me when I played, when I coached, as a combat commander, in my profession, as an elected official and a community member. When I have done that, it has been easier to sell others on the idea of excellence and success. This web site is entertaining and I learn a lot from others and their perspectives (except for the moron who knows less about sports than he does about health care, but I digress). I may be wrong but I think if we want coaching changes before contract renewal time, we need significant money for buyouts. I also feel we have some excellent assistants and I would rather focus on what we can do now to move forward in a positive manner as opposed to speculating on what we might do in 2025. I’m as frustrated as the rest of you with how we played yesterday.  But let’s see if this is who we are or can we rebound. It is so dependent on the OL, DL and fixing the secondary. We have a decent game manager at QB but I don’t see him carrying this team. He is there to not lose games. If the OL can’t protect the QB we are not going to be successful. Again I digress but I get your points and understand the frustration. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

4 hours ago, iramurphy said:

What about all the folks who keep calling for a new coach?  They want change as long as someone else pays for it. If Bubba has a contract through 2025 then this is just is a waste of time. If you want changes write a check for 6 figures to get us started and we can try to find 10-20 others. 
The same suspects call for coaching changes when any of our teams aren’t doing well. Sometimes warranted, usually not. Most show no insight into either the sport nor coaching but that’s what they see on ESPN. What ESPN doesn’t usually stress is the millions it costs schools to make coaching changes when there are unexpired multi-year contracts. It’s less expensive to provide the funds for coaching salary upgrades including assistant coaches, but instead of the “we should have… or what if… “ it doesn’t seem that those with the financial resources to do write the checks. That doesn’t mean fans who aren’t constantly clamoring for change every time we fail are any less upset than those who seem to think it means they are happy with mediocrity. (It may mean if we aren’t playing or coaching we have higher priorities).  We still have a long way to go to reach the level of excellence and consistency we all want. I’m not going to write a check for $1million or even $100,000 right now so I will support this team and coaching staff as long as they are in place. Lots of reasons to criticize and be frustrated but frankly our kids laid an egg. They didn’t play up to their ability and if we don’t do that, we will struggle to win in this league. 

This is a scapegoat argument, I’m afraid.

Many on this board, myself included, could write a check. Perhaps not for 6 figures, but 5 figures for starters, but why should I write said check if the administration hasn’t convinced me they have the decision-making capability or commitment to football to correctly utilize alumni donations. 
 

Many of the issues are beyond dollars. These include proving a commitment to football, hiring the right coach/coaching staff, such as not requiring a previous connection to UND, and not extending coaches that haven’t earned it. 
 

For example, UND extended Bubba after a 5-6 losing season in 2021. That screams mediocrity. 
 

I know you understand what NDSU’s football success has done for their university and following. UND needs to garner the same thing; the hockey program has plateaued and UND isn’t going to grow anymore with just that program in a vacuum. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

3 hours ago, Sioux>Bison said:

They need to know how to recruit in our region. We going to change where we recruit?

A lot of UND’s current recruits with this staff are just DII prospects - no competing DI offers. But there are some battles out there that UND could perhaps win with new coaches. New connections, new areas/geography, sure. But it goes beyond just that, so I wouldn’t make it so simplistic. Bubba isn’t the best recruiter by any means. You need to be able to make great relationships, develop a winning/championship culture, even more so in this day and age, you need to be able to utilize the transfer portal.