Official SiouxSports.com Logo Reaction Thread and Poll

[Siouxperfan7]

The Sioux logo was a very unique logo because , really, it was never intended to be a logo.  It was a work of art that was eventually adopted to be a logo.  So lets just put that iconic logo aside for now and look at the previous logo's UND has used compared to our new Fighting Hawks logo.  Obviously comparing it to the old Sioux logo will leave you dissapointed since is was such a great one.  But compare it to previous logos we have used in the past, and it really isn't as bad as people want to make it.  

[UND1981]

A hawk is not unique to North Dakota.  The others were unique to ND.  Being the nth number of hawk is just plain pathetic.

[The Sicatoka]

9 minutes ago, UND1981 said:

A hawk is not unique to North Dakota.  The others were unique to ND.  Being the nth number of hawk is just plain pathetic.

Did you vote? I did, and my selection did not come out on top. 

[UND1981]

Yes, I voted Nodaks then RR. 

[SiouxFan9]

Not a symbol of UND

 

As someone who grew up in Grand Forks, attend UND, have siblings and parents that attended UND, have a parent who is a professor at UND, and gone through this same process with my high school, I feel I have some insight into the issue. I feel there have been a number of injustices that have gone on throughout this process, from the mishandling of the issue by the State with the NCAA, to the blatant disregard of the facts, the oppression of the wishes of the people on the Standing Rock reservation, and to the debacle of the name and logo selection.

 

The university did receive permission from the tribes to use the name. Why was that fact ignored? Did the tribes rescind their permission of its use? Why didn’t the State stress this fact when dealing with the NCAA? Why didn’t the NCAA accept this approval of usage that was given when the namesake was first established? These are just a number of questions still out there.

 

What is lost in all the timelines that I’ve seen is the fact that the people of North Dakota overwhelmingly voted to have the university keep the name and symbol by voting it in as a law! The people reversed its decision only after being threatened and bullied by the NCAA with sanctions against the university. Yet that fact is absent from timelines. Only the vote to remove the name is mentioned.

 

The incontrovertible majority of the Spirit Lake Reservation voted in favor of keeping the name, yet the Standing Rock Reservation was kept mum and not allowed to voice their opinion the issue because the people who spearheaded its removal happened to be in a position to oppress their voices. If the name is so offensive to the tribes why are they using it in their own schools? The school in Solen on the Standing Rock Reservation calls themselves the Solen Sioux. They even have a symbol that is reminiscent of the one used by the highway patrol. Why is that acceptable and UND’s usage not?

 

The majority were once again ignored by not allowing the choice of “none” in the naming process. This is another case of where the minority is deciding what the majority will do, which seems to happening a lot these days. Why force the people to make a selection. A name could be chosen at a late time. Why force the issue? Of the criteria used to select the name they certainly missed the mark with being unique, and likelihood of name being abridged resulting in different name or name similar to existing name. As one other “Hawks” institution put it, “welcome to the hawk family.”. Even another college in the state was concerned that people could become confused with their nickname, the Blue Hawks. Seems that the Blue Hawks and Fighting Hawks have already been shortened to just “Hawks” justifying their concerns. It’s early, but the nickname being a unifying and rallying symbol don’t seem to have been met as well.

 

That being said, we’ve moved on to the symbol. This symbol is not a representation of UND. It’s a symbol that represents Mr. Schafer and all the injustices that have occurred with this whole process. An interim present is supposed to ensure the day to day functions of the university are addressed until a permanent replacement can be found. Their job is not to make decisions that will affect the university for decades to come and leave a fire-storm of controversy and upheaval for the in-coming present to deal with. As Mr. Schafer put it, the selection and creation of the symbol should have been left to the professionals. It’s obvious that Mr. Schafer wanted to leave his mark on the school. Apparently the past artist, students, athletes, and alumni suggestions were ignored during this process. Mr. Schafer took it upon himself to make the selection. He and he alone decided what the symbol would be and was “very hands-on” with the design and outcome of the symbol. He had his “favorite going in” to the process and nobody was going to persuade him otherwise, not even Bennet Brien and UND hockey standout Troy Stecher.

 

As for the logo itself, was the thought process behind the symbol to make it as plain, generic, and, well blah, as possible so that nobody could find a reason to be offended by it; except the people that it represents? To people who say this is just a symbol and not to get too excited over it, have you ever heard the phrase a picture paints a thousand words? I think everyone expected more than what we got.

 

To hear Mr. Schafer refer to the petition going around as a very small voice of the alumni was just outrageous. He completely ignored the alumni and student body with his selection of the symbol, but now he uses them as a convenient reason not revisit the issue??! Irony abounds!!

 

Did the name change and symbol stand a chance against the old name and symbol; not a chance. Nothing will ever be as good, ever. However, UND had the opportunity to ease the transition and persuade people into accepting the new name by creating a logo by the people for the people, which would allow them to take ownership of it and feel part of the process. It takes leadership to make that happen…

 

Having the university use the name and symbol allowed the people to be remembered, bring to light their plight, to not be forgotten. Every time UND would be represent by the students in any competition around the nation, academically or athletically, people would wonder what the Sioux were and why the university would use that name. They would look up the history of the tribes and learn what the Sioux nation was all about and their history. Now that the namesake and symbol have been removed and no longer in the forefront of the activities of the university, the Sioux tribes will fade out of the minds of the rest of the nation and fade out of existence. Is that really what the tribal wants?

 

I will, of course, support and cheer for the athletes of the university as I always have. That hasn’t changed and never will. What has changed is my opinion of the school’s philosophy and administration. I for one, can no longer support an institution that can’t uphold its values and morals by allowing itself to be bullied by the NCAA, and a minority of individuals who happened to be in the position to make a lot of noise, and oppress those who would speak up against their wishes, into removing their name and symbol.

 

For all of the detractors out there that feel that people are sulking because they merely want the old name and symbol back are missing the point. This is no longer about the old name and symbol. People have moved past that. This is about being forced into accepting something without having any input into the issues. It’s about being told what we can have with a false facade of a vote. The detractors seem to be the ones hung up on the old name and symbol and not the real issues at hand. They are the ones with the narrow focus of just the old name and a symbol.

 

I say to the in-coming present, what is the harm in allowing the students and alumni, the key stakeholders, to have a say in what the new symbol would be. Have local artists, students, and alumni (people who have lived in the region, understand the culture, attended the school, and know the history of the university) select the next symbol that will represent them. It won’t cost anything to do this. Put them all up for a vote, including the logo selected by Mr. Schafer, and let the people decide! Another option would be to use the logo selected by Mr. Schafer as a shoulder patch and create a new logo for the front of the jerseys. It won’t undo the injustices that have been done, but it will help ease the transition.

[SIOUXFAN97]

2 minutes ago, SiouxFan9 said:

Not a symbol of UND

 

As someone who grew up in Grand Forks, attend UND, have siblings and parents that attended UND, have a parent who is a professor at UND, and gone through this same process with my high school, I feel I have some insight into the issue. I feel there have been a number of injustices that have gone on throughout this process, from the mishandling of the issue by the State with the NCAA, to the blatant disregard of the facts, the oppression of the wishes of the people on the Standing Rock reservation, and to the debacle of the name and logo selection.

 

The university did receive permission from the tribes to use the name. Why was that fact ignored? Did the tribes rescind their permission of its use? Why didn’t the State stress this fact when dealing with the NCAA? Why didn’t the NCAA accept this approval of usage that was given when the namesake was first established? These are just a number of questions still out there.

 

What is lost in all the timelines that I’ve seen is the fact that the people of North Dakota overwhelmingly voted to have the university keep the name and symbol by voting it in as a law! The people reversed its decision only after being threatened and bullied by the NCAA with sanctions against the university. Yet that fact is absent from timelines. Only the vote to remove the name is mentioned.

 

The incontrovertible majority of the Spirit Lake Reservation voted in favor of keeping the name, yet the Standing Rock Reservation was kept mum and not allowed to voice their opinion the issue because the people who spearheaded its removal happened to be in a position to oppress their voices. If the name is so offensive to the tribes why are they using it in their own schools? The school in Solen on the Standing Rock Reservation calls themselves the Solen Sioux. They even have a symbol that is reminiscent of the one used by the highway patrol. Why is that acceptable and UND’s usage not?

 

The majority were once again ignored by not allowing the choice of “none” in the naming process. This is another case of where the minority is deciding what the majority will do, which seems to happening a lot these days. Why force the people to make a selection. A name could be chosen at a late time. Why force the issue? Of the criteria used to select the name they certainly missed the mark with being unique, and likelihood of name being abridged resulting in different name or name similar to existing name. As one other “Hawks” institution put it, “welcome to the hawk family.”. Even another college in the state was concerned that people could become confused with their nickname, the Blue Hawks. Seems that the Blue Hawks and Fighting Hawks have already been shortened to just “Hawks” justifying their concerns. It’s early, but the nickname being a unifying and rallying symbol don’t seem to have been met as well.

 

That being said, we’ve moved on to the symbol. This symbol is not a representation of UND. It’s a symbol that represents Mr. Schafer and all the injustices that have occurred with this whole process. An interim present is supposed to ensure the day to day functions of the university are addressed until a permanent replacement can be found. Their job is not to make decisions that will affect the university for decades to come and leave a fire-storm of controversy and upheaval for the in-coming present to deal with. As Mr. Schafer put it, the selection and creation of the symbol should have been left to the professionals. It’s obvious that Mr. Schafer wanted to leave his mark on the school. Apparently the past artist, students, athletes, and alumni suggestions were ignored during this process. Mr. Schafer took it upon himself to make the selection. He and he alone decided what the symbol would be and was “very hands-on” with the design and outcome of the symbol. He had his “favorite going in” to the process and nobody was going to persuade him otherwise, not even Bennet Brien and UND hockey standout Troy Stecher.

 

As for the logo itself, was the thought process behind the symbol to make it as plain, generic, and, well blah, as possible so that nobody could find a reason to be offended by it; except the people that it represents? To people who say this is just a symbol and not to get too excited over it, have you ever heard the phrase a picture paints a thousand words? I think everyone expected more than what we got.

 

To hear Mr. Schafer refer to the petition going around as a very small voice of the alumni was just outrageous. He completely ignored the alumni and student body with his selection of the symbol, but now he uses them as a convenient reason not revisit the issue??! Irony abounds!!

 

Did the name change and symbol stand a chance against the old name and symbol; not a chance. Nothing will ever be as good, ever. However, UND had the opportunity to ease the transition and persuade people into accepting the new name by creating a logo by the people for the people, which would allow them to take ownership of it and feel part of the process. It takes leadership to make that happen…

 

Having the university use the name and symbol allowed the people to be remembered, bring to light their plight, to not be forgotten. Every time UND would be represent by the students in any competition around the nation, academically or athletically, people would wonder what the Sioux were and why the university would use that name. They would look up the history of the tribes and learn what the Sioux nation was all about and their history. Now that the namesake and symbol have been removed and no longer in the forefront of the activities of the university, the Sioux tribes will fade out of the minds of the rest of the nation and fade out of existence. Is that really what the tribal wants?

 

I will, of course, support and cheer for the athletes of the university as I always have. That hasn’t changed and never will. What has changed is my opinion of the school’s philosophy and administration. I for one, can no longer support an institution that can’t uphold its values and morals by allowing itself to be bullied by the NCAA, and a minority of individuals who happened to be in the position to make a lot of noise, and oppress those who would speak up against their wishes, into removing their name and symbol.

 

For all of the detractors out there that feel that people are sulking because they merely want the old name and symbol back are missing the point. This is no longer about the old name and symbol. People have moved past that. This is about being forced into accepting something without having any input into the issues. It’s about being told what we can have with a false facade of a vote. The detractors seem to be the ones hung up on the old name and symbol and not the real issues at hand. They are the ones with the narrow focus of just the old name and a symbol.

 

I say to the in-coming present, what is the harm in allowing the students and alumni, the key stakeholders, to have a say in what the new symbol would be. Have local artists, students, and alumni (people who have lived in the region, understand the culture, attended the school, and know the history of the university) select the next symbol that will represent them. It won’t cost anything to do this. Put them all up for a vote, including the logo selected by Mr. Schafer, and let the people decide! Another option would be to use the logo selected by Mr. Schafer as a shoulder patch and create a new logo for the front of the jerseys. It won’t undo the injustices that have been done, but it will help ease the transition.

time to move on...let go.

[UNDBIZ]

Too long.  Didn't read.

[southpaw]

37 minutes ago, UND1981 said:

A hawk is not unique to North Dakota.  The others were unique to ND.  Being the nth number of hawk is just plain pathetic.

We're past the nickname choice.  Fighting Hawks was chosen, so we're going to have a fighting hawks logo.  Don't hate the logo just because you hate the name.

[southpaw]

48 minutes ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

The Sioux logo was a very unique logo because , really, it was never intended to be a logo.  It was a work of art that was eventually adopted to be a logo.  So lets just put that iconic logo aside for now and look at the previous logo's UND has used compared to our new Fighting Hawks logo.  Obviously comparing it to the old Sioux logo will leave you dissapointed since is was such a great one.  But compare it to previous logos we have used in the past, and it really isn't as bad as people want to make it.  

 

I love the geometric logo, but I really think the new logo looks sharper than either of the other two.

[The Sicatoka]

SiouxFan9: 

That water is already over the dam, under the bridge, and being drunk by a horse that's already left the barn. 

[fightingsioux4life]

7 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

SiouxFan9: 

That water is already over the dam, under the bridge, and being drunk by a horse that's already left the barn. 

Best description of the current situation I have ever read...anywhere. Well done.

[siouxfan512]

15 minutes ago, southpaw said:

We're past the nickname choice.  Fighting Hawks was chosen, so we're going to have a fighting hawks logo.  Don't hate the logo just because you hate the name.

Agreed. Hawks was one of my least favorite options, but it is what it is. I'm still going to refer to to teams as the Sioux, but maybe I'll eventually embrace the name. We'll see how it goes with time. I can't imagine telling someone on a Friday that I'm excited to watch some Hawk Hockey. Still Sioux Hockey to me.

Regardless, I do think they screwed up the logo transition. Though I think that is also something that can be fixed fairly easily by the university, by making some slight adjustments and adding some additional logos. It will evolve and be added to.

I don't mind complaining a bit on here, but in terms of changing the name or scrapping the new logo .... that battle is over.

[UND1981]

29 minutes ago, southpaw said:

We're past the nickname choice.  Fighting Hawks was chosen, so we're going to have a fighting hawks logo.  Don't hate the logo just because you hate the name.

I hate the logo because it is piss poor and plain.  Nothing unique to ND.  I don't have to like the logo or the new name.  That's what I have told my wife.  I'll keep wearing my Sioux stuff because that's what makes me happy.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

1 hour ago, The Sicatoka said:

SiouxFan9: 

That water is already over the dam, under the bridge, and being drunk by a horse that's already left the barn. 

Yup, there probably a lot of injustice in the process but at this point it doesn't realistically matter. The F'Hawks name is meh, the logo is meh but it's what we got.

I love the Sioux logo and name but the fight for it ended a long time ago and it seems like some people are showing up a decade or so late to the fight thinking there's a chance. Unfortunately, I think this gives uninformed people optimism that there is a chance they can reverse the nickname decision and continually lets them down when it doesn't happen.

PS Yes I'll still be wearing my Fighting Sioux gear at sporting events but I understand that's not the official nickname any longer. Maybe I'll get Hawks gear eventually if they can make something that looks good to me... it won't be the shirt Schaefer was wearing though

[Siouxperfan7]

16 minutes ago, InHeavenThereIsNoBeer said:

Yup, there probably a lot of injustice in the process but at this point it doesn't realistically matter. The F'Hawks name is meh, the logo is meh but it's what we got.

I love the Sioux logo and name but the fight for it ended a long time ago and it seems like some people are showing up a decade or so late to the fight thinking there's a chance. Unfortunately, I think this gives uninformed people optimism that there is a chance they can reverse the nickname decision and continually lets them down when it happen.

PS Yes I'll still be wearing my Fighting Sioux gear at sporting events but I understand that's not the official nickname any longer. Maybe I'll get Hawks gear eventually if they can make something that looks good to me... it won't be the shirt Schaefer was wearing though

That is the problem.  Many young fans were too young and were not paying much attention to all of this when it went down over a decadeago.  For example, the freshmen at UND this year were first graders when the NCAA came out with their policy towards native american nicknames and logos.  The things that students and younger fans are fighting for have already been fought for years before they even knew what the term "hostile and abusive" meant.  Instead of generation after generation fighting the same battle over and over, lets focus on building new traditions with a new name and logo and passing that down over generations of UND fans.

[The Sicatoka]

10 minutes ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

For example, the freshmen at UND this year were first graders when the NCAA came out with their policy towards native american nicknames and logos. 

August 5, 2005. Over a decade. < stunned > 

[tnt]

1 hour ago, southpaw said:

I love the geometric logo, but I really think the new logo looks sharper than either of the other two.

I agree.  I'm not a huge fan of the new logo, but when side by side against those, it certainly looks o.k.

[Fetch]

48 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

August 5, 2005. Over a decade. < stunned 

 

I hated reading that again just now - more than ever it is just wrong & awful such a few can make such claims & how inept the ncaa was to adopt it

[Siouxperfan7]

There is a lot of passion right now towards the new logo and the new name.  It would be nice to see that type of passion for supporting the teams instead of the logo on their jerseys.  Put that passion into coming to football games and packing stands and making the Alerus the most intimidating place in FCS football.  Put all that energy into volleyball and basketball games at the Betty giving our basketball team the support the deserve.  Continue to pour all that emotion into supporting the hockey team at home and on the road continuing to make UND the best fanbase in college hockey.  Support all the other sports like swimming and diving, softball, and soccer with the same attitude as well.

My point is that we need to focus on the right things.  Complaining about a logo and a name is not going to help our teams win.  But giving them that extra support at games and making it tough on opponents do to the passion, energy, and emotion of the fans in the crowd is what we as UND fans need to focus our attention on.

[Irish]

5 hours ago, tho0505 said:

Absolutely, here was my top 5 of the 5.  I felt then and still do, the most important part of this process to move on was the logo. It is essential, especially for the Sioux Forever crowd, that a logo be selected that instills pride in the university and North Dakota. We could have been the Sundogs (although I really dislike that name) and had an awesome looking Husky that we could be proud of.   That where the passion for the Sioux comes from. A great logo and a name that North Dakotans are proud of.  In order to move past it, the school needed to pick a logo that mattered. 

 

Nodaks

Roughriders

Fighting Hawks

North Stars

Sundogs

It was right at this point I knew we had been hosed.

[SIOUXFAN97]

not sure what was on Delaware's football helments were before the "homage to Michigan" but can you imagine und paying homage to Colorado state and adding horns on our helmets....

[tho0505]

3 hours ago, southpaw said:

We're past the nickname choice.  Fighting Hawks was chosen, so we're going to have a fighting hawks logo.  Don't hate the logo just because you hate the name.

I agree! Don't hate the logo just because you hate the name. Hate the logo, because just plain boring and is a corporate logo, not a school logo.

[tho0505]

1 hour ago, Irish said:

It was right at this point I knew we had been hosed.

At what point? When the decision for the logo was taken out of the alumni / students hands? The release of the new logo? Or since the majority wanted to keep North Dakota (without adopting a nickname) they forced a nickname?

[Siouxperfan7]

5 minutes ago, tho0505 said:

I agree! Don't hate the logo just because you hate the name. Hate the logo, because just plain boring and is a corporate logo, not a school logo.

There are many of these that I would classify as more "boring" and "corporate" than our logo.

[tho0505]

1 hour ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

 

My point is that we need to focus on the right things.  Complaining about a logo and a name is not going to help our teams win.  But giving them that extra support at games and making it tough on opponents do to the passion, energy, and emotion of the fans in the crowd is what we as UND fans need to focus our attention on.

It's been less than a week.  If I or anyone else is still complaining about our pathetic logo in 6 months or a year, that would be a great time to state this.  Fans/alumni/the COMMUNITY have the right to be upset about this logo and people should respect that process as well.

If someone is complaining about our logo, that doesn't mean we don't support the school. On the contrary, it shows we are passionate about our school, state, and the how we show ourselves to the rest of the country.    I hate this thought that as fans we are supposed to take everything blindly without any thought or push back. This decision for a logo was made by one man, one man alone.