Former Players

[Midwestern Hawk]

9 minutes ago, Kab said:

Before each home game there are players and coaches with a public service announcement on the video board on how the team is doing everything they can to fight rape and other abuses of women.

I wonder how many players if any, knew of what happened and didn’t say anything

It's a football team...they were all aware of it.  

[Siouxperman8]

7 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

But with no substantiation. Things (rumors approaching slander/libel) put the forum at risk. 

Now that there's a media report that is being discussed, fire away. 

Not arguing that it should have been posted. Just saying they were in the know. 

[Kab]

52 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

It's a football team...they were all aware of it.  

So they are aware and still post that video, what’s the use?

[SiouxFan100]

Rare that something is 100%. Folks can see the same thing and not agree what it was.

Life

[Midwestern Hawk]

1 hour ago, Kab said:

So they are aware and still post that video, what’s the use?

First of all the world has a ton of BS in it.  Also, it doesn’t  mean other players endorse Otis actions.      Can’t imagine the situation, along with his overall attitude about the team built cohesion.

IMO, at the very least, Bubba should have cut Otis the week of Drake.  

[CMSioux]

What gets lost in these discussions is that rape is a crime of violence, not a crime of sex. 

[Mama Sue]

2 hours ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

First of all the world has a ton of BS in it.  Also, it doesn’t  mean other players endorse Otis actions.      Can’t imagine the situation, along with his overall attitude about the team built cohesion.

IMO, at the very least, Bubba should have cut Otis the week of Drake.  

Well true but the AD should have handled this. Something this serious is not for the person whose job rides on the performance of students…. Bubba is putting together a team, not dealing with (possible?) crimes. This is an AD decision and Bubba says ok.

[gfNDfan]

9 hours ago, geaux_sioux said:

Exactly. Tom doesn’t work for the Washington Post. He can’t just publish stories without legitimate sources and verified accurate info.

!@#!$ comment but great timing on the 50th Anniversary of the Watergate break-in!  Where just a couple little "reporters" named Woodward and Bernstein responded to a "minor burglary" and eventually forced a POS liar president to resign in disgrace.   They found legitimate sources and verified info with a lot of hard work.  Tom needs to do the work of a journalist and dig around.  It's not easy but it will get you to the truth...unfortunately the work ethic isn't there for a lot of todays newspaper and tv journalists.  

[Mama Sue]

Journalists walk a fine line….if it is not public information, I’m not so sure….

[Midwestern Hawk]

8 hours ago, gfNDfan said:

!@#!$ comment but great timing on the 50th Anniversary of the Watergate break-in!  Where just a couple little "reporters" named Woodward and Bernstein responded to a "minor burglary" and eventually forced a POS liar president to resign in disgrace.   They found legitimate sources and verified info with a lot of hard work.  Tom needs to do the work of a journalist and dig around.  It's not easy but it will get you to the truth...unfortunately the work ethic isn't there for a lot of todays newspaper and tv journalists.  

If Tom was Mockingbird, Otis was a target of the state, and the order was given, I have no doubt he could have been destroyed long before now. 

[Fry Bread]

On 6/16/2022 at 5:53 PM, Msmith said:

Are you seriously posting this? People like you are the reason more females do not report sexual assault. Shame on you! 

Sexual assault is a serious crime that oft times is life altering, but false allegations of any kind can be very devastating. 
 

Both situations need to be taken very serious. 
 

You should be punished if found guilty of assault but likewise, you should be punished if you lied about being assaulted 

[Mama Sue]

Well said Fry Bread…

[geaux_sioux]

11 hours ago, gfNDfan said:

!@#!$ comment but great timing on the 50th Anniversary of the Watergate break-in!  Where just a couple little "reporters" named Woodward and Bernstein responded to a "minor burglary" and eventually forced a POS liar president to resign in disgrace.   They found legitimate sources and verified info with a lot of hard work.  Tom needs to do the work of a journalist and dig around.  It's not easy but it will get you to the truth...unfortunately the work ethic isn't there for a lot of todays newspaper and tv journalists.  

Have you not paid much attention to the Washington Post’s journalistic “standards” lately? 

[Sioux>Bison]

12 hours ago, gfNDfan said:

!@#!$ comment but great timing on the 50th Anniversary of the Watergate break-in!  Where just a couple little "reporters" named Woodward and Bernstein responded to a "minor burglary" and eventually forced a POS liar president to resign in disgrace.   They found legitimate sources and verified info with a lot of hard work.  Tom needs to do the work of a journalist and dig around.  It's not easy but it will get you to the truth...unfortunately the work ethic isn't there for a lot of todays newspaper and tv journalists.  

In the end it is all hearsay because UND would not comment on the issue if approached by Miller. Why report on hearsay and risk your reputation and liability if the rumors were not true?

[SIOUXFAN97]

12 hours ago, gfNDfan said:

!@#!$ comment but great timing on the 50th Anniversary of the Watergate break-in!  Where just a couple little "reporters" named Woodward and Bernstein responded to a "minor burglary" and eventually forced a POS liar president to resign in disgrace.   They found legitimate sources and verified info with a lot of hard work.  Tom needs to do the work of a journalist and dig around.  It's not easy but it will get you to the truth...unfortunately the work ethic isn't there for a lot of todays newspaper and tv journalists.  

why is that when all these impartial "reporters" end up being libs? 

asking for a friend of terry dullum

[Sioux>Bison]

On 6/17/2022 at 5:55 AM, Bison Dan said:

If that's the case then Tom Miller should do his job.

Tom Miller needs the facts on what is going on . He is not going to write an article on hearsay or rumors and UND was not going to disclose any information. The Mo State coaches do not need facts to figure out what is going on with Otis. There is no way these rumors would not have gotten to those coaches. What take that risk on a guy and jeopardize your program and university’s image?

[Sioux>Bison]

On 6/17/2022 at 6:38 AM, The Sicatoka said:

Nit-picking, but is that the correct term? Guilty normally refers to a court finding. Those Title IX hearings are not the same as a court of law. 

You are found either guilty or innocent at a Title IX hearing. They are not the same as a criminal trial but those are the correct terms for a Title IX hearing. 
 

sounds like none of his credits would have even transferred if he was still suspended and tried to transfer. The university will typically not release your transcript if you are suspended.

[Sioux>Bison]

16 hours ago, Mama Sue said:

Well true but the AD should have handled this. Something this serious is not for the person whose job rides on the performance of students…. Bubba is putting together a team, not dealing with (possible?) crimes. This is an AD decision and Bubba says ok.

How is the AD or Bubba going to kick a kid off the the team for rumors? Until a title 9 complaint is filed it would be hard to justify kicking a guy off the team if a criminal investigation was dropped. Otis passed a lie detector test so he had that on his side.

Did Otis get some kind of legal advice before the hearing? Did he try to appeal the decision? I have a feeling he may not have know how this could have all blown up by trying to transfer or maybe he just ignored all the warnings?

 

[Kab]

In a he said she said who wins?

what evidence is needed ?

are there witnesses?

 

[Msmith]

22 minutes ago, Sioux>Bison said:

How is the AD or Bubba going to kick a kid off the the team for rumors? Until a title 9 complaint is filed it would be hard to justify kicking a guy off the team if a criminal investigation was dropped. Otis passed a lie detector test so he had that on his side.

Did Otis get some kind of legal advice before the hearing? Did he try to appeal the decision? I have a feeling he may not have know how this could have all blown up by trying to transfer or maybe he just ignored all the warnings?

 

The Title IX case and the criminal case or two different women…not connected. Totally different cases.

[Hawkster]

1 hour ago, Sioux>Bison said:

How is the AD or Bubba going to kick a kid off the the team for rumors? Until a title 9 complaint is filed it would be hard to justify kicking a guy off the team if a criminal investigation was dropped. Otis passed a lie detector test so he had that on his side.

Did Otis get some kind of legal advice before the hearing? Did he try to appeal the decision? I have a feeling he may not have know how this could have all blown up by trying to transfer or maybe he just ignored all the warnings?

 

I'm starting to think Bubba had a laundry list of other problems concerning Otis that he probably could have used at any time to remove him from the team.   I'm not trying to minimize the sexual assault charges but this was surly not the only major Otis problem to pop up.

[Sioux>Bison]

1 hour ago, Msmith said:

The Title IX case and the criminal case or two different women…not connected. Totally different cases.

Two different victims?

[Sioux>Bison]

1 hour ago, Kab said:

In a he said she said who wins?

what evidence is needed ?

are there witnesses?

 

https://mccrimlaw.com/criminal-law-101/what-expect-title-ix-hearing/

[Fry Bread]

4 hours ago, Mama Sue said:

Well said Fry Bread…

Thank you 

[Msmith]

25 minutes ago, Sioux>Bison said:

Two different victims?

Yes