ScottM Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 But, what other options do they have exactly? Independence is untenable (imo). Hockey East appears to be out and the BigTen would take a gigantic philosophical shift for ND as an institution. Notre Dame will join the WCHA, have it renamed the "Notre Dame Hockey Conference" and never play a conference game outside of South Bend again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Does anyone know who is calling the shots on deciding what schools are to be invited into the NCHC conference. With no commissioner as of right now, who is deciding these factors. It's always University Presidents that have the first and last word on conference expansion. A commissioner is no different than a consultant: they can suggest. So in other words, send your emails to Robert Kelley, if you want to protest. Kelley and most of his administration probably view St Cloud's Saigo, Potter, and their stands with UND as heroic, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiSioux Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I am thrilled that Western is joining. Having moved to Michigan since graduating, this seems like a great opportunity for me to be able to watch Sioux hockey live again :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Hockey is an expensive sport. Those who were thinking that Bowling Green would be a good addition are flatly wrong and not paying attention to the economics. Miami will have a hard time hanging in there on the travel, as will WMU. Those who were thinking that this conference would match its rather stupid name and go "National" now have their answer. There are, save for the Alaska schools who may soon turn to dust in the wind, few schools, if any, that can sustain travel budgets outside of their regional play on a consistent basis. College hockey will never be a national sport. If the NHL cannot do it, college programs across the land already working on thinning dimes will not do it. I said it before and I will say it again. This move will not pan out to be a good move for the overall health of the game that we love. The Pig Ten started it. We followed. Now watch some programs wither rather than to see the landscape grow. By adding St Cloud, the Nat killed the potential for any other "name" school to join. There is absolutely no way Notre Dame ever joins now - that door is slammed. The rationale behind adding St Cloud is probably that it increases the MSP media interest and thereby helps (minimally) a media contract, has decent attendance, and is close to the MSP airport for cheaper travel. That National also wanted eight teams, so that all schools have a first round opponent with a good gate. If a NCHC tournament is at the Exel, clown fans would buy some tickets. Agree with you that this really hurts college hockey. With St Cloud in the WCHA, the Minnesota schools at least had an anchor. Now Bemidji and Mankato are looking at a league that is dominated by Upper Michigan schools. Where's the WCHA going to have their tournament? There's no natural place for a tournament. Not sure that MSU-Moorhead would even want to join the WCHA now. By the NCHC taking Western Michigan, that kills the shot of the CCHA reforming with WMU, BGSU, UAH, and the four AHA schools. Now UAH will need a WCHA invitation, and that might not even save them. Bowling Green's only option appears to be the WCHA, with which Bowling Green has absolutely nothing in common with. Bowling Green might even throw in the towel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Notre Dame will join the WCHA, have it renamed the "Notre Dame Hockey Conference" and never play a conference game outside of South Bend again. That might not be far off. Floated the idea that Notre Dame may start a mostly Catholic conference of Snow White and five dwarves (Canisius, Niagara, Mercyhurst, Holy Cross, and Robert Morris.) Notre Dame needs to have a conference where the playoffs would be in South Bend, so they can use that tournament for their TV network. Those five schools might just jump at an opportunity to associate a bit with ND, and still leave ND with all kinds of open slots to play Big Ten and Hockey East schools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodcon Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 That might not be far off. Floated the idea that Notre Dame may start a mostly Catholic conference of Snow White and five dwarves (Canisius, Niagara, Mercyhurst, Holy Cross, and Robert Morris.) Notre Dame needs to have a conference where the playoffs would be in South Bend, so they can use that tournament for their TV network. Those five schools might just jump at an opportunity to associate a bit with ND, and still leave ND with all kinds of open slots to play Big Ten and Hockey East schools. HTTHC Holier Than Thou Hockey Conference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 HTTHC Holier Than Thou Hockey Conference Maybe we'll know this week what ND's plans are. Ironically, if Bowling Green accepts the WCHA bid, Notre Dame will be the only remaining member of the CCHA, could theoretically invite anyone it wanted, and would have an immediate autobid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakotadan Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Puke. Miami and WMU just left their MAC brother Bowling Green out to dry (die). At least they are DI and brought a sliver of name recognition. So is the National Collegiate Hockey Conference going to change its name to Regional Collegiate Hockey Conference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jheria Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Like dmksioux said, my bet is that the NCHC are already aware of Notre Dame's intentions, and they probably do not include joining the NCHC. I don't like the addition of St.Cloud at all either. I would much prefer Bowling Green or Air Force. However, St. Cloud probably makes the most sense of anybody (other than Notre Dame) from a television standpoint. Fox Sports North is going to be losing alot of programming when Big 10 Hockey starts up, and having Duluth, St Cloud, CC, and Denver, the NCHC will have significant presence in 2 of the 4 major college hockey markets in the U.S. (if you consider Minneapolis, Denver, Detroit, and New England the 4 biggest markets for college hockey................) Finally, someone that gets it. The league needs a TV deal (Fox is the most logical) and TV needs that market. Kinda makes sense as to why they are getting an invite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yzerman19 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Finally, someone that gets it. The league needs a TV deal (Fox is the most logical) and TV needs that market. Kinda makes sense as to why they are getting an invite. St Cloud is not the Twin Cities... I am extremely disappointed by this decision. It almost feels as though someone had regrets and is changing their tune because of feelings. This is business. Eat what you kill and don't look back. The National became a joke today. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxman Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Hockey is an expensive sport. Those who were thinking that Bowling Green would be a good addition are flatly wrong and not paying attention to the economics. Miami will have a hard time hanging in there on the travel, as will WMU. Those who were thinking that this conference would match its rather stupid name and go "National" now have their answer. There are, save for the Alaska schools who may soon turn to dust in the wind, few schools, if any, that can sustain travel budgets outside of their regional play on a consistent basis. College hockey will never be a national sport. If the NHL cannot do it, college programs across the land already working on thinning dimes will not do it. I said it before and I will say it again. This move will not pan out to be a good move for the overall health of the game that we love. The Pig Ten started it. We followed. Now watch some programs wither rather than to see the landscape grow. NDH - Some time ago when this all started to come down I felt that you were way overly pessimistic. I was feeling this was all going to shake out without too much distress. I still think that you are overly pessimistic, but not much. UAH is still on the outside looking lost and I don't believe they can survive long-term as an independent. I am having doubts that they can survive even in a conference, because it won't be a conference with the high draw opponents to assist with revenue. The WCHA looks to become a glorified version of the CHA, admittedly somewhat stronger but still a weak sister. Notre Dame has overplayed their hand and no one gives a rip about what they decide to do. I think at this stage they piddled away their opportunity. If they stay independent, at the end of the year they sit and wait while everyone else plays out their tournaments. If they make the NCAA's they will not have played for a couple of weeks at least. So long CCHA. And then, as you point out there are some programs that will have a tough time with the extended travel costs. We will likely see some shrinkage in a few years. As for St. Cloud in the NCHC, I don't see them fitting the supposed vision of the NCHC, but if that means the conference tournament is in St. Paul, that is okay. And, as Dagies pointed out, they are a close travel destination. Besides every league needs a doormat. In summary, I defer to your crystal ball with a little more respect in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 By adding St Cloud, the Nat killed the potential for any other "name" school to join. There is absolutely no way Notre Dame ever joins now - that door is slammed. As I said before, it is most likely that the members of the National are aware of Notre Dame's intentions, and that is why we have this new development. Notre Dame likely slammed the door on the National, not the other way around. The rationale behind adding St Cloud is probably that it increases the MSP media interest and thereby helps (minimally) a media contract, has decent attendance, and is close to the MSP airport for cheaper travel. That National also wanted eight teams, so that all schools have a first round opponent with a good gate. If a NCHC tournament is at the Exel, clown fans would buy some tickets. I hate the fact that it appears St Cloud is joining up, but you just made a pretty decent argument in their favor, when you consider that Notre Dame has apparently turned them down.................It is a contingency plan. Puke. Miami and WMU just left their MAC brother Bowling Green out to dry (die). At least they are DI and brought a sliver of name recognition. So is the National Collegiate Hockey Conference going to change its name to Regional Collegiate Hockey Conference? St Cloud is not the Twin Cities... I am extremely disappointed by this decision. It almost feels as though someone had regrets and is changing their tune because of feelings. This is business. Eat what you kill and don't look back. The National became a joke today. Most on this site were claiming that the WCHA without Minnesota and Wisconsin would still be far superior to the Big 10 Hockey Conference. I fail to see how trading Alaska Anchorage, Mankato, Bemidji, Michigan Tech and Bruce McLeod for Miami and Western Michigan is a joke.................. Finally, someone that gets it. The league needs a TV deal (Fox is the most logical) and TV needs that market. Kinda makes sense as to why they are getting an invite. Minnesota by far and away had the best TV deal in college hockey. Wisconsin and Michigan also had decent coverage from Fox. I'll reiterate that I hate the fact that St. Cloud is joining the National, but I do see the point IF Notre Dame has said no thanks as they likely have. Fox Sports North in 2013 will lose what, 35 Gopher broadcasts and 10-15 Badger games? Couple that with the Big 10 Network taking away the basketball and football broadcasts from Fox North the last few years, and they have a serious need for programming once the Twins baseball season is over. I would not be surprised to see Fox Sports North, Fox Sports Rocky Mountain, and Fox College Sports carry NCHC games every single Friday and Saturday during the season. Hell, the Fox Sports networks in Ohio and Detroit may jump on board as well with Miami and WMU in the fold. Again, I much rather would have seen Notre Dame join instead of St Cloud or either of the two that will be for that matter. But sometimes you gotta make lemonade out of lemons. I hate St. Cloud, but they are in Minnesota, and the state of Minnesota is pretty critical to college hockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windsor Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Actually, as someone pointed out to me, you've traded AA, MTU, Bemidji and the WCHA leadership for Miami, Western MI, and hopefully a decent conference leadership group. Not all that bad of a trade, considering how much we belly-ached about McLeod for years. And none of us thought the WCHA was an inferior conference at that point. I like the way you put it. I am not a fan of St. Cloud joining but McClown had to go and it will still be a good conferance. We all know that St Cloud isn't being allowed to join with out some stipulations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yzerman19 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 As I said before, it is most likely that the members of the National are aware of Notre Dame's intentions, and that is why we have this new development. Notre Dame likely slammed the door on the National, not the other way around. I hate the fact that it appears St Cloud is joining up, but you just made a pretty decent argument in their favor, when you consider that Notre Dame has apparently turned them down.................It is a contingency plan. Most on this site were claiming that the WCHA without Minnesota and Wisconsin would still be far superior to the Big 10 Hockey Conference. I fail to see how trading Alaska Anchorage, Mankato, Bemidji, Michigan Tech and Bruce McLeod for Miami and Western Michigan is a joke.................. Minnesota by far and away had the best TV deal in college hockey. Wisconsin and Michigan also had decent coverage from Fox. I'll reiterate that I hate the fact that St. Cloud is joining the National, but I do see the point IF Notre Dame has said no thanks as they likely have. Fox Sports North in 2013 will lose what, 35 Gopher broadcasts and 10-15 Badger games? Couple that with the Big 10 Network taking away the basketball and football broadcasts from Fox North the last few years, and they have a serious need for programming once the Twins baseball season is over. I would not be surprised to see Fox Sports North, Fox Sports Rocky Mountain, and Fox College Sports carry NCHC games every single Friday and Saturday during the season. Hell, the Fox Sports networks in Ohio and Detroit may jump on board as well with Miami and WMU in the fold. Again, I much rather would have seen Notre Dame join instead of St Cloud or either of the two that will be for that matter. But sometimes you gotta make lemonade out of lemons. I hate St. Cloud, but they are in Minnesota, and the state of Minnesota is pretty critical to college hockey. Its the destruction of a vision of an elite conference with schools dedicated to performance on the ice and with $. It is not worse that the WCHA is now, but it is not the elite college hockey league in the country either...it is one of several good college hockey leagues along with the Big 10 and Hockey East. If you have a vision, you need to influence that vision into reality, not compromise it into mediocrity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodakvindy Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Pretty baffling move. There was no need to do a panicky expansion. If there is a commitment from the schools, six teams is enough for a conference. And with a easy system to work like PairWise, you should be able to get 4 of 6 teams in to the NCAAs almost every year. The key to getting bids as a conference is to do well in non-conference play. As a six-team loop, that would have meant 14 noncon games, and as "have" schools, that breakdown would likely have been 8-6 or 10-4 for home games. The conference tourney could have been a series of best of threes for all three rounds over three weekends. That would have been very distinctive and given a little extra luster to the NCHC playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDHockey Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 The rationale behind adding St Cloud is probably that it increases the MSP media interest and thereby helps (minimally) a media contract, has decent attendance, and is close to the MSP airport for cheaper travel. That National also wanted eight teams, so that all schools have a first round opponent with a good gate. If a NCHC tournament is at the Exel, clown fans would buy some tickets. The media interest angle in MSP as a reason to pick up St. Cloud is completely baseless. Over all the years I have lived in this area, I've never seen an ounce of media interest in St. Cloud during the season unless it relates to playing the Gophers. There might have been one article by Patrick Reusse one time but nothing beyond that. Yzerman19 has the right perspective. St. Cloud is not of any interest to the MSP market. Not even a blip on the radar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDHockey Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Minnesota by far and away had the best TV deal in college hockey. Wisconsin and Michigan also had decent coverage from Fox. I'll reiterate that I hate the fact that St. Cloud is joining the National, but I do see the point IF Notre Dame has said no thanks as they likely have. Fox Sports North in 2013 will lose what, 35 Gopher broadcasts and 10-15 Badger games? Couple that with the Big 10 Network taking away the basketball and football broadcasts from Fox North the last few years, and they have a serious need for programming once the Twins baseball season is over. I read that Joel Maturi said that the Gophers will still have their hockey games on Fox Sports North when the Big Ten Network isn't broadcasting a Gopher game. So it would appear that FSN is going to remain similar to how it is now. Badger games on FSN were only broadcast in Wisconsin and I doubt there will be any NCHC interest in their market. FSN hasn't been broadcasting Big Ten basketball games recently so I am not sure what you think they need to replace in the future. Whatever they lost has already been replaced. FSN is going to remain Wild, Wolves, and Gophers in the winter. Unless you are thinking they would do tape delay broadcasts of our games, I doubt they are going to be the answer for NCHC's TV future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pump It Up Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 It's good to be aboard boys! In my opinion, adding SCSU was a fine choice. I hope to see you all October 28 and 29 in Grand Forks. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakotadan Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 People cannot honestly say with a straight face that SCSU will bring in the Minneapolis/St Paul TV market, can they? That is like saying the Big Sky should add Trinity Bible College to bring in the Fargo TV market. SCSU will not bring in the Minnesota market anymore than UMD already would have. Even if the mighty Notre Dame has already told the NCHC that they are not interested, the NCHC should have just invited WMU, started as a 7 team league and then told BGSU that they would get an invite once they showed a commitment to hockey (i.e. facility upgrades, increased coaching salaries, etc.) In the mean time, the NCHC could have also began setting aside money and persuing other fully DI schools that currently do not play hockey to see about potentially starting programs in the future (Iowa State, Colorado/CSU, Montana, Washington, Seattle U, Syracuse, ANYONE besides SCSU). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iluvdebbies Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 As a Sioux hockey season ticket holder... i really dont care about " like-minded instituions" ,a conference of only div 1 schools,or improving the "national footprint". I want to see hockey teams that bring excitement to the ralph.SCSU brings that....uaa,bemidj,mankato,and certainly not tech brought that... even when games were close with these teams the atmosphere was not the same as duluth,goofers,wisconsin,cc denver and st cloud. Look at the teams we have now in the NCHC...every weekend is going to be something to look forward to .... Denver & Colorado College ...enough said Uno...Dean Blais returns and will bring talent every year Duluth....they now have a national championship Miami...have had really good teams and talented players the past few years...that shouldnt change WMU....Regional semi-finals last year and Andy Murray as their new head coach... they will only get better SCSU....We hate the clowns, aaron marvin(they will always have a marvin type),and their announcers.....but the games are still exciting Who else could the NCHC really get to top that........BC,BU,NH,or Maine wont happen... So that leaves Notre Dame....i hope they join ....but if they dont the NCHC is a way more attractive league then the current WCHA!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishSiouxFan Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 As a Sioux hockey season ticket holder... i really dont care about " like-minded instituions" ,a conference of only div 1 schools,or improving the "national footprint". I want to see hockey teams that bring excitement to the ralph.SCSU brings that....uaa,bemidj,mankato,and certainly not tech brought that... even when games were close with these teams the atmosphere was not the same as duluth,goofers,wisconsin,cc denver and st cloud. Look at the teams we have now in the NCHC...every weekend is going to be something to look forward to .... Denver & Colorado College ...enough said Uno...Dean Blais returns and will bring talent every year Duluth....they now have a national championship Miami...have had really good teams and talented players the past few years...that shouldnt change WMU....Regional semi-finals last year and Andy Murray as their new head coach... they will only get better SCSU....We hate the clowns, aaron marvin(they will always have a marvin type),and their announcers.....but the games are still exciting Who else could the NCHC really get to top that........BC,BU,NH,or Maine wont happen... So that leaves Notre Dame....i hope they join ....but if they dont the NCHC is a way more attractive league then the current WCHA!! Are you just a Sioux hockey season ticket holder? I'm not, I'm also a student and soon to be alumni and "like institutions" very much matter to me and my credentialing. We were lead to believe that the NCHC would be an elite league comprised of fierce competition and strong academic standards (with exception to UNO), now it looks desperate with no room or appeal for expansion for larger schools who are considering the pros and cons of adding D1 hockey. The NCHC can insist that that SCSU make upgrades to their facilities and spend more money on their program but what can they honestly do to raise SCSU academic prestige? Nothing. Schools like Notre Dame, Texas, Iowa State, and California are now less likely to join our party now that we have a turd in the punchbowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 The media interest angle in MSP as a reason to pick up St. Cloud is completely baseless. Over all the years I have lived in this area, I've never seen an ounce of media interest in St. Cloud during the season unless it relates to playing the Gophers. There might have been one article by Patrick Reusse one time but nothing beyond that. Yzerman19 has the right perspective. St. Cloud is not of any interest to the MSP market. Not even a blip on the radar. Agreed. The speculation that St. Clown would help create any sort of great "media deal" is baseless. St. Clown was really a participant in the Notre Dame Hockey Sweepstakes. ND probably either indicated they would not join or wanted terms so onerous the original schools told them to "kiss" Touchdown Jesus. St. Clown will dutifully raise a Participant banner before the start of its first home game in October. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmksioux Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Are you just a Sioux hockey season ticket holder? I'm not, I'm also a student and soon to be alumni and "like institutions" very much matter to me and my credentialing. We were lead to believe that the NCHC would be an elite league comprised of fierce competition and strong academic standards (with exception to UNO), now it looks desperate with no room or appeal for expansion for larger schools who are considering the pros and cons of adding D1 hockey. The NCHC can insist that that SCSU make upgrades to their facilities and spend more money on their program but what can they honestly do to raise SCSU academic prestige? Nothing. Schools like Notre Dame, Texas, Iowa State, and California are now less likely to join our party now that we have a turd in the punchbowl. I'm not a big proponent of adding St. Cloud to the NCHC, primarily because of their attack on the Fighting Sioux name. But I don't see why some people think all these "big" schools are going to be starting hockey anytime soon. How many schools have begun DI hockey in the last decade? How many of them are "big" schools? I can think of one and that's because of large donation by an alum. The NCHC came about because the schools involved wanted to cut some of the "dead weight" so there weren't so many schools to share revenues with. They also wanted schools that invest in their programs, which they've gotten. Sure they are going after ND, BC, or the outside chance of a new "big" school starting hockey, etc, but in my opinion, that wasn't the number one reason these schools started a new conference. They did it for money and a different management structure and possibly a media contract of some sort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND83 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I wonder if Faison gagged a little when he said "Both universities fit perfectly with the established goals of our conference membership". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jupiter Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I read that Joel Maturi said that the Gophers will still have their hockey games on Fox Sports North when the Big Ten Network isn't broadcasting a Gopher game. So it would appear that FSN is going to remain similar to how it is now. This is correct. In fact, since the BTN came online a few years back, they have had first choice on all Gopher games. Once they are done picking those games, FSN can pick up anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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