COMMITTED UND Recruits

[Sioux>Bison]

On 5/5/2022 at 6:40 PM, The Sicatoka said:

UMD’s run is statistically, historically abnormal. They will return to the mean. 

That’s what we said about the bison too…….

[geaux_sioux]

1 hour ago, Sioux>Bison said:

That’s what we said about the bison too…….

Yea, such a loser mentality. “Well they cant be that good forever!”

[fightingsioux4life]

4 hours ago, Sioux>Bison said:

That’s what we said about the bison too…….

Different sport. Different situation.

[Fighting Sioux 23]

7 hours ago, TheFlop said:

Think Berry or Hakstol would have been the same with a subpar facility like the old DECC?  Look at Sandelins record once he got a decent facility to recruit to for more of an apples to apples comparison. 

Yes.  Kids commit to programs.  While a Grade A facility doesn't hurt, I don't believe it really plays a huge factor in a kid's decision to play for a program.  Look at a program like Denver.  DU doesn't have Grade A facilities, but has always been in the mix since Gwoz took over that program.  Heck, look at most of the recent national title winners outside of Duluth and North Dakota: Denver, Massachusetts, Providence, Union, Yale...even Boston College doesn't have that impressive of facilities.  

Also, even after Amsoil, Sandy had some pretty lean years after the title in '11, including a losing season and a .500 season (North Dakota's last season at .500 or worse was under Blais in 2001-2002).  It would be another 6 full years before the Bulldogs returned to the Frozen Four.  

[ksixpack]

On 5/5/2022 at 10:59 AM, The Sicatoka said:

Cole Spicer has scored exactly zero collegiate goals. Any other statement at this point is speculative. 

Well…in reality…

Spicer (at age 17 as a high school senior) had 7 points (2 goals 5 assists) in 13 games vs D1 college teams this year - pretty good college teams at that.  USNDT record was 8-5 vs those pretty good college teams as well (including a shutout against our favorite team).

Spicer’s PPG average against D1 college teams this year was .54 which was better than 10 of the forwards we have returning...only 3 had better than .54 PPG; Gaber, Schmaltz, and Costantino...so there’s that

[Fighting Sioux 23]

4 hours ago, ksixpack said:

Well…in reality…

Spicer (at age 17 as a high school senior) had 7 points (2 goals 5 assists) in 13 games vs D1 college teams this year - pretty good college teams at that.  USNDT record was 8-5 vs those pretty good college teams as well (including a shutout against our favorite team).

Spicer’s PPG average against D1 college teams this year was .54 which was better than 10 of the forwards we have returning...only 3 had better than .54 PPG; Gaber, Schmaltz, and Costantino...so there’s that

FWIW, I have him at 5 points (2g, 3a) in 14 games against D1 teams in exhibition games (.36 ppg / .14 gpg).

[gfhockey]

5 hours ago, ksixpack said:

Well…in reality…

Spicer (at age 17 as a high school senior) had 7 points (2 goals 5 assists) in 13 games vs D1 college teams this year - pretty good college teams at that.  USNDT record was 8-5 vs those pretty good college teams as well (including a shutout against our favorite team).

Spicer’s PPG average against D1 college teams this year was .54 which was better than 10 of the forwards we have returning...only 3 had better than .54 PPG; Gaber, Schmaltz, and Costantino...so there’s that

My points exactly 

[tnt]

7 hours ago, ksixpack said:

Well…in reality…

Spicer (at age 17 as a high school senior) had 7 points (2 goals 5 assists) in 13 games vs D1 college teams this year - pretty good college teams at that.  USNDT record was 8-5 vs those pretty good college teams as well (including a shutout against our favorite team).

Spicer’s PPG average against D1 college teams this year was .54 which was better than 10 of the forwards we have returning...only 3 had better than .54 PPG; Gaber, Schmaltz, and Costantino...so there’s that

...and Caulfield's numbers were better against college teams when he was with the USNDT.  Caulfield didn't exactly rip it up his first two season here.  In fact his goals against college teams while with the USNDT probably matched his full year total both of his first two seasons here. 

[SJHovey]

3 hours ago, Fighting Sioux 23 said:

FWIW, I have him at 5 points (2g, 3a) in 14 games against D1 teams in exhibition games (.36 ppg / .14 gpg).

Goals against Alaska and LSSU.  Assists against Providence, Mich. St. and Notre Dame.

Shut out against NMU, MTU, Cornell, Mercyhurst, BU, Merrimack, UND, Minnesota, and Michigan.

[stoneySIOUX]

11 minutes ago, SJHovey said:

Goals against Alaska and LSSU.  Assists against Providence, Mich. St. and Notre Dame.

Shut out against NMU, MTU, Cornell, Mercyhurst, BU, Merrimack, UND, Minnesota, and Michigan.

It's fine. Let people continue to justify why he shouldn't be in college hockey this season. Mr. Spicer will get his chance to prove it either way. 

Second verse, same as the first ... Kid made his choice. 

[fightingsioux4life]

19 minutes ago, SJHovey said:

Goals against Alaska and LSSU.  Assists against Providence, Mich. St. and Notre Dame.

Shut out against NMU, MTU, Cornell, Mercyhurst, BU, Merrimack, UND, Minnesota, and Michigan.

Analytics aside, the main gripe people have on here is that we let a talented forward go (Spicer) and brought back two veteran forwards to an team that struggled to score goals last year. Our defense and goaltending were good at the end of last year, our offense was incredibly not.

Having said that, talent evaluation is a crap shoot sometimes (just like NFL draft evaluations) and we won't know if this was a good decision or not for a couple of years.

[tnt]

10 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Analytics aside, the main gripe people have on here is that we let a talented forward go (Spicer) and brought back two veteran forwards to an team that struggled to score goals last year. Our defense and goaltending were good at the end of last year, our offense was incredibly not.

Having said that, talent evaluation is a crap shoot sometimes (just like NFL draft evaluations) and we won't know if this was a good decision or not for a couple of years.

...and it is a win now or the fans go ballistic situation at UND.   Not that it was an either/or situation with Hain, Senden or Spicer, but how many people complaining would say, oh it's o.k. that Spicer made a couple bad mistakes and/or didn't show up for a tournament game in which we lost.  No, those people would be all over Berry because we lost a tournament game.  Spicer moved on, and we will too.  

[burd]

19 hours ago, tnt said:

...and it is a win now or the fans go ballistic situation at UND.   Not that it was an either/or situation with Hain, Senden or Spicer, but how many people complaining would say, oh it's o.k. that Spicer made a couple bad mistakes and/or didn't show up for a tournament game in which we lost.  No, those people would be all over Berry because we lost a tournament game.  Spicer moved on, and we will too.  

I've stayed out of this topic because I know far less about the subject than many here.   But it seems to me we have no idea how Spicer personally interacted with staff on the question of when he would suit up and in what capacity.   Online gossip, but no real idea how he approached the situation.   That is not a controlling factor, but it is a consideration if I'm coach, especially balanced against another year from two mature players who have proven to be solid on the ice and very good in the locker room.   

But if UMD finishes ahead of UND in 22-23, I say we fire Berry and hire a guy who will win natties every 5 years.   Minimum.  

[stoneySIOUX]

5 hours ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Analytics aside, the main gripe people have on here is that we let a talented forward go (Spicer) and brought back two veteran forwards to an team that struggled to score goals last year. Our defense and goaltending were good at the end of last year, our offense was incredibly not.

Having said that, talent evaluation is a crap shoot sometimes (just like NFL draft evaluations) and we won't know if this was a good decision or not for a couple of years.

This is my main gripe... we've spent how many pages going in absolute circles about a kid who decided to leave us (I am making that very clear) and will likely be a 6th round draft pick or worse, while barely talking about one of the highest-scoring incoming classes in UND history (which addresses the idea of us adding scoring). Can't we just all cut bait and let this dang argument go?

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

8 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

This is my main gripe... we've spent how many pages going in absolute circles about a kid who decided to leave us (I am making that very clear) and will likely be a 6th round draft pick or worse, while barely talking about one of the highest-scoring incoming classes in UND history (which addresses the idea of us adding scoring). Can't we just all cut bait and let this dang argument go?

You must be new here Stoney 

[brianvf]

5 hours ago, stoneySIOUX said:

This is my main gripe... we've spent how many pages going in absolute circles about a kid who decided to leave us (I am making that very clear) and will likely be a 6th round draft pick or worse, while barely talking about one of the highest-scoring incoming classes in UND history (which addresses the idea of us adding scoring). Can't we just all cut bait and let this dang argument go?

+1

[fightingsioux4life]

15 hours ago, stoneySIOUX said:

This is my main gripe... we've spent how many pages going in absolute circles about a kid who decided to leave us (I am making that very clear) and will likely be a 6th round draft pick or worse, while barely talking about one of the highest-scoring incoming classes in UND history (which addresses the idea of us adding scoring). Can't we just all cut bait and let this dang argument go?

It's the off-season. No games to talk about.

[stoneySIOUX]

14 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

It's the off-season. No games to talk about.

Right, but again, maybe we stop talking about a non-UND recruit and about our really, really good recruits?

[scpa0305]

16 hours ago, stoneySIOUX said:

This is my main gripe... we've spent how many pages going in absolute circles about a kid who decided to leave us (I am making that very clear) and will likely be a 6th round draft pick or worse, while barely talking about one of the highest-scoring incoming classes in UND history (which addresses the idea of us adding scoring). Can't we just all cut bait and let this dang argument go?

Respectfully, you’re missing the point. Which I am not going to get into on a public forum. Either way, I agree time to move on.

we do have a decent collection of guys coming in. They’ll be freshman though. 

[Goon]

19 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

Right, but again, maybe we stop talking about a non-UND recruit and about our really, really good recruits?

I think this upcoming season, UND is going to have a solid lineup in the forward groups. 

Defensively, they're going to be really good too. This "could" be a really good season for UND. 

[stoneySIOUX]

6 minutes ago, scpa0305 said:

Respectfully, you’re missing the point. Which I am not going to get into on a public forum. Either way, I agree time to move on.

we do have a decent collection of guys coming in. They’ll be freshman though. 

 I am? Seems like the point has been well stated. A large chunk of fans want to talk about Spicer as an indicator of UND/Bubs' problems. I'm fine being told what the point is if I am missing it. 

I would say the class is more than decent. Definitely more than decent. Them being freshman... I'm confused, is that good? I see it as very good.

[BusinessSiouxt]

1 hour ago, stoneySIOUX said:

 I am? Seems like the point has been well stated. A large chunk of fans want to talk about Spicer as an indicator of UND/Bubs' problems. I'm fine being told what the point is if I am missing it. 

I would say the class is more than decent. Definitely more than decent. Them being freshman... I'm confused, is that good? I see it as very good.

Stoney for the Win!

[RhettRingers]

1 hour ago, Goon said:

I think this upcoming season, UND is going to have a solid lineup in the forward groups. 

Defensively, they're going to be really good too. This "could" be a really good season for UND. 

Tampa or bust baby! This D core is going to rival that 2016 team. Our top 9 will be solid. I think Berry is all in this next year.

[stoneySIOUX]

24 minutes ago, RhettRingers said:

Tampa or bust baby! This D core is going to rival that 2016 team. Our top 9 will be solid. I think Berry is all in this next year.

This could be a fun comparison. That 2016 team was legitimately loaded. Maybe in the 22-23 team thread we should line this up. My first instinct is 2016 has more overall talent. 

[Tbone]

On 5/9/2022 at 1:48 PM, burd said:

But if UMD finishes ahead of UND in 22-23, I say we fire Berry and hire a guy who will win natties every 5 years.   Minimum.  

By that measure of a championship every five years, Duluth would have dumped Sandelin after his 6 year drought from 2011. Who should have UMD replaced him with?