Fighting Sioux 23

I try to provide a historical perspective when I feel people are overreacting. I hope the overreactions at this time next season are how many titles in a row will UND win.

I don't believe anyone was suggesting that UND should do nothing and simply wait for another championship. I also don't believe that UND is sitting on its hands waiting for the clock to strike 12 again. However, some historical perspective is necessary with a certain portion of our fanbase at the moment. Particularly those that point out Denver's current run as if that is what they've been doing for 75 years. They have not (and I did not even mention in my original post DU's 35-year wander through the desert before pulling a miracle in 2004). I'd also challenge you on your assertion that there are "just as many" historical programs that fade into history and don't bounce back. Historically, that is untrue. The only programs that would come close to having faded away and not bounced back (at least, in my opinion) are LSSU and Maine. LSSU had one decade of greatness, and I would not consider them to be a "historical program." Maine gets closer to that status (about a 2 decade run of greatness, with two titles). But Maine has also now made significant investments in its program and finally made the tournament again. We will see how their program responds here in the next few seasons. Regardless, what makes a "historical program" is their ability to compete consistently over the course of time. Almost by definition, they do not "fade into history." I'd also point out that BC (York), Minnesota (Lucia), and Michigan (Berenson), have won a grand total of 0 National Championships since departing with their legendary coaches. You could throw BU (Parker) in that mix as well.

While green banners are obviously the "most" memorable seasons, they are certainly not the only seasons that we remember. I fondly remember the 1997-1998, 1998-1999, 2000-2001, 2003-2004, 2004-2005, 2007-2008, 2010-2011, 2014-2015, 2019-2020, and 2020-2021 runs. They didn't end with national titles, but they were great seasons. Also, people are constantly bringing up Denver. No doubt the Pios are on a run. But they are quick to forget the Pios "awful" stretch between 2005 and 2016. 10 seasons. 0 National Titles. 0 Frozen Fours. 2 Regional Finals in 8 NCAA Tournaments (2-8 overall record). 2 missed NCAA Tournaments. As others have said, these things are cyclical. Michigan had a historical run in the late '40s / early '50s (6 titles in 9 seasons). DU had a historical run in the late '50's / '60s. (5 titles in 12 seasons). Wisconsin had a historical run in the '70s / early 80's (4 titles in 11 seasons). BC had a historical run in the '00s / early '10s (4 titles in 12 seasons). DU may currently be in the midst of another historical run (which, I guess I'm defining as 4 titles in 12 or fewer seasons). One of the unique things about North Dakota's history, is that we have not had such a historical run, but we have been the most consistent program in college hockey history. Our time atop the mountain will come again. And if history repeats itself, that time will likely be sooner than some of us believe.

I don't think you're remembering the 2019-2020 season very well. It was one of only four seasons in UND hockey history where the team had a .800 winning percentage or higher (1986-1987 (Gino - with a title), 1998-1999 (Blais - one and done), 2015-2016 (Berry - with a title), and 2019-2020 (Berry - with a ?)). Would they have won the title that season? Who knows. But they would have been the #1 overall seed, and I would have liked their chances against anyone. Berry did a great job that season. You're also severely discounting the 2020-2021 season, and forgetting that UND (again, the #1 overall seed) played a rested Duluth squad and lost in 5OTs. If UND wins that game are you okay with Berry now? 2021-2022 wasn't terrible either. Another Penrose Cup (not the banner we all hope for, but a banner nonetheless). Another OT loss in the NCAAs (Berry has been particularly snakebitten in OT as a head coach, see season enders in 2017, 2018, 2021, 2022, and 2023)), but what I would consider an above-average season. This past season was very frustrating, and a complete disappointment given the expectations coming into the season. If next season ends the same way, I agree that looking at other options should be considered. Until then, everybody here understands the point you've made over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again. Let's move on.

Not that it really matters, but here are the facts about ages and the 2015-2016 North Dakota squad that played in the National Title game on the day of the championship (Canadian Players with an *): Brock Boeser - 19 Drake Caggiula - 21* Nick Schmaltz - 20 Troy Stecher - 22* (22nd birthday was the day of the Semifinal win over Denver) Austin Poganski - 20 Tucker Poolman - 22 Bryn Chyzyk - 23* Paul LaDue - 23 Rhett Gardner - 20* Johnny Simonson - 22 Keaton Thompson - 20 Christian Wolanin - 21 Coltyn Sanderson - 24* Shane Gersich - 19 Gage Ausmus - 20 Joel Janatuinen - 21 Trevor Olson - 22 Colton St. Clair - 23 Cam Johnson - 21 # of Canadians: 5 (26% of lineup) Average Age of Canadians: 22 Average Age of Entire Team: 21 (7th youngest team in college hockey that season - 3 months younger than this year's Gopher squad)

Agreed. Since Frattin scored 36 in 2010-2011, here are the guys to pot 20+ in a season: Brock Nelson (2011-2012) - 28 Brock Boeser (2015-2016) - 27 Danny Kristo (2012-2013) - 26 Drake Caggiula (2015-2016) - 25 Shane Gersich (2016-2017) - 21 Gaber definitely has the talent to join this group, and coupled with the influx of offensive prowess coming in this season, 20+ should definitely be the goal. But I would be perfectly fine with 30+. : p

Ehh, at one point "Bucci" was talking about how the Gophers played for the National Championship last season (despite the fact that he called the game between DU and Mankato just three months ago). Sadly, he is one of college hockey's biggest advocates at ESPN.

Basically every team is going to win 60 games, and every team is going to lose 60 games. The Twins are 5-1 against Detroit thus far this season. They have 13 more games against the Tigers. They probably will lose at least 2-3 more times. Take a deep breath...it's a long season. ; )

FWIW, I have him at 5 points (2g, 3a) in 14 games against D1 teams in exhibition games (.36 ppg / .14 gpg).

Yes. Kids commit to programs. While a Grade A facility doesn't hurt, I don't believe it really plays a huge factor in a kid's decision to play for a program. Look at a program like Denver. DU doesn't have Grade A facilities, but has always been in the mix since Gwoz took over that program. Heck, look at most of the recent national title winners outside of Duluth and North Dakota: Denver, Massachusetts, Providence, Union, Yale...even Boston College doesn't have that impressive of facilities. Also, even after Amsoil, Sandy had some pretty lean years after the title in '11, including a losing season and a .500 season (North Dakota's last season at .500 or worse was under Blais in 2001-2002). It would be another 6 full years before the Bulldogs returned to the Frozen Four.

Per the "analytics" draft charts, it was a win for the Vikings. New GM is an analytics guy. I'm guessing the guys they had the highest grades on were already gone, so may as well trade? Also, letting Detroit move up to draft yet another first round WR named Williams was probably just too much to pass up. ; p

If you look at the first post of that thread, it has links to the prior threads (back when USCHO capped threads at 1000 posts). I've been posting the formula results over there since 2010.

Nice work, although I'm pretty sure Minnesota only has 12 championship game appearances.

Well, it's official. Denver now has more National Championships than fans.

FWIW, Denver and North Dakota tend to win titles in close proximity to one another. 1958 - Denver wins National Title. 1959 - North Dakota responds and captures the title. 1960 & 1961 - Denver goes back-to-back 1963 - North Dakota gets back on the board 1968 & 1969 - Denver goes back-to-back again. ------MEANINGFUL GAP----- 1980 - North Dakota gets third title. 1982 - North Dakota gets fourth title. 1987 - North Dakota ties it up with Denver, capturing its 5th title. -----MEANINGFUL GAP----- 1997 - North Dakota finally goes ahead of DU, winning its 6th title. 2000 - North Dakota wins another, goes up 7-5. 2004 & 2005 - Denver goes back-to-back for a third time, and knots up the score at 7 apiece. -----MEANINGFUL GAP----- 2016 - North Dakota edges back ahead of DU, capturing its 8th title 2017 - Denver storms back to tie it up at 8. 2022 - Denver sneaks ahead, winning its 9th title. 2023 - ????

Well, for football, ESPN usually uses "Michigan St." I would imagine the same would be true for hockey.

Agreed. Ole, Ole Ole Ole, Ole...Ole!

That's pretty common for them. Took them 26 years to win their first. Then got 3 in a span of 6 seasons. Then they had a drought of 23 years. Then won back-to-back. Assuming this score holds, their current drought will reach 20 seasons. In fact, of all the teams that have won more than 2 titles, all have had (or currently are on) droughts of at least 20+ years...with one exception. ; )

Not a problem. I also looked at Minnesota State's. It shows a stark contrast to their success before and after conference realignment: Pre-Conference Realignment (2002-2013) Average Finish: 26.55 Best Finish: 11th (2012-2013) Worst Finish: 49th (2011-2012) Made/Missed NCAA Tournament: 2/9 Post-Conference Realignment (2013-2022) Average Finish: 8.55 Best Finish: 1st (2014-2015 and 2020-2021) Worst Finish: 28th (2016-2017) Made/Missed NCAA Tournament: 7/2

To put UND's 6.35 average Pairwise finish into further perspective, here are the next highest teams: Denver Average Finish: 9.0 Best Finish: 1st (2016-2017) Worst Finish: 26th (2020-2021) (non-Covid: 23rd (2013-2014)) Minnesota Average Finish: 9.35 Best Finish: 1st (2006-2007 and 2013-2014) Worst Finish: 24th (2009-2010) Boston College Average Finish: 9.45 Best Finish: 1st (2004-2005 and 2011-2012) Worst Finish: 34th (2018-2019) Michigan Average Finish: 11.90 Best Finish: 1st (2007-2008 and 2021-2022) Worst Finish: 37th (2016-2017)

Also, for those interested, CHN has historical pairwise data back to 2002-2003. In that time frame, here is where we have finished: 2002-2003: 10th 2003-2004: 1st 2004-2005: 8th 2005-2006: 7th 2006-2007: 10th 2007-2008: 3rd 2008-2009: 8th 2009-2010: 5th 2010-2011: 2nd 2011-2012: 4th 2012-2013: 8th 2013-2014: 14th 2014-2015: 2nd 2015-2016: 3rd 2016-2017: 10th 2017-2018: 14th 2018-2019: 20th 2019-2020: 1st 2020-2021: 2nd* 2021-2022: 7th The average finish in that 20-year timeframe was 6.95, or a #2 seed. The breakdown by NCAA Tournament seed: 1 seed: 7 times (35%) 2 seed: 6 times (30%) 3 seed: 3 times (15%) 4 seed: 1 time (5%) Missed Tournament: 2 times (10%) No Tournament: 1 time (5%) *As there was no intra-conference play in 2020-2021 due to Covid, the Pairwise results were likely inaccurate and not meaningful. The NCAA Selection Committee ultimately chose North Dakota as the #1 Overall Seed.

I would agree with your characterizations. Although, I would also note that, we finished 14th in the Pairwise in 2018 (4 teams "stole" bids). Most years we make the tournament in that position. We finished 20th in 2019, so we weren't really even a "bubble" team that year.

IF Minnesota beats Minnesota State, then yes, I will cheer for them in the title game. I will not cheer for DU to win their 9th title before we get ours, and I will not cheer for Michigan to win their 10th title before we get there. It is really that simple. The rivalry with Minnesota just doesn't mean much to me anymore. But hey, root against the Gophers all you want. I'll gladly join you next Thursday. I think we all can at least agree on that.

Yep. Not sure why you were second-guessing my list of rooting interests in the Frozen Four to begin with. ; )

Doesn't change the fact that I would rather have Minnesota win over Denver or Michigan. I hate Denver and do not want them winning #9 (and certainly not before we do). Likewise, I do not want Michigan winning #10 (and certainly not before we do), and I really do not want them to win the title this year based on the crap they pulled with Western. The Gophers...I just don't really have that much hate left for them. Do I want them to win? No. Give me Mankato please. But, they are the clear (at least in my mind) second-best option of the teams in the Frozen Four this year.