Facilities Master Plan

[MoSiouxFan]

Sanford is going to want something in return so get ready. realize it alsThere is a reason why UND turned down 10 million dollars. USD took the money and paid for it. SDSU is going to o.

I plead ignorance; please elaborate.

[UND Fan]

I plead ignorance; please elaborate.

I am also ignorant - how is USD "paying for it"?

[JohnboyND7]

Sanford is non-profit. I don't know how they could really make the other Dakota schools pay for the money they gave them? They have to donate a ton of money or give free medical service to people. They chose to donate.

Ignorance pleaded as well

[UND1983]

There are more ways to "pay" for a decision than financial ones. From everything I heard about it, USD has athletic training-doctor issues that were brought about by having poor vision when signing the contract. Sanford did not provide the support they were supposed to and they did not allow any competitors to help out. UND knew of this and tried to take care of it in the negotiations but it must not have worked out. There were probably other issues, don't know.

[jdub27]

Sanford is non-profit. I don't know how they could really make the other Dakota schools pay for the money they gave them? They have to donate a ton of money or give free medical service to people. They chose to donate.

Ignorance pleaded as well

NDSU athletics had no problem dropping their 20+ year partnership with Innovis for the money. A few years earlier than the contract called for if I recall correctly. Those donations don't come without strings and it is up to the individual school to decide if they are worth it.

[JohnboyND7]

NDSU athletics had no problem dropping their 20+ year partnership with Innovis for the money. A few years earlier than the contract called for if I recall correctly. Those donations don't come without strings and it is up to the individual school to decide if they are worth it.

Sanford is the big cheese up here now. I'd presume the terms were worth it. Sanford gets their name on a building, gets rid of some cash they weren't going to get to keep anyway. NDSU gets money that they could use.

I'm sure UND will find a nice situation and/or source of income relating to a similar situation as well.

[Smoggy]

There are more ways to "pay" for a decision than financial ones. From everything I heard about it, USD has athletic training-doctor issues that were brought about by having poor vision when signing the contract. Sanford did not provide the support they were supposed to and they did not allow any competitors to help out. UND knew of this and tried to take care of it in the negotiations but it must not have worked out. There were probably other issues, don't know.

Wasn't the issue with Sanford that they wanted naming of the med school or some control of that? And seeing as how they have such a little presence in this town UND can't turn their back on Altru.

[gfhockey]

altru is struggling hardcore with cash flow right now. They werent predicting anyone to buy the aurora hosptial out.. and then someone did and the went to panic mode.... They were worried drs. hospital were gunna sell out to sanford after a couple sanford executives stayed up here and got hammerd at the wild hog and blabbed what they were up here to do... Word got back to Altru and the rest is history... UND wont expect to see a cent from altrue for a hile..... they already delayed the plans 2 years.

[Ole in MSP]

There are more ways to "pay" for a decision than financial ones. From everything I heard about it, USD has athletic training-doctor issues that were brought about by having poor vision when signing the contract. Sanford did not provide the support they were supposed to and they did not allow any competitors to help out. UND knew of this and tried to take care of it in the negotiations but it must not have worked out. There were probably other issues, don't know.

The University of Minnesota backed out of a deal with Sanford when they built TCF stadium for some unpublished reason too. I forget the amount of money, but it was for naming rights on the stadium among other things and was substantial. Obviously they felt the best thing to do was not jump in bed with Mr. Sanford.

[JohnboyND7]

The University of Minnesota backed out of a deal with Sanford when they built TCF stadium for some unpublished reason too. I forget the amount of money, but it was for naming rights on the stadium among other things and was substantial. Obviously they felt the best thing to do was not jump in bed with Mr. Sanford.

Minnesota also has the money (funny, considering the state) to be more selective than the schools around here do. It could also be that TCF was willing to give either more money, or fewer terms to meet to get the money. Say TCF gave them X amount of dollars and favorable terms. Say Sanford gave them 1.25-1.50 X dollars compared to TCF but less favorable terms....take that TCF money and don't look back in my opinion.

[Bison Dan]

The point is was UND counting on the 10 million for the IPA? If so it might be a long time to get it started. I guess Kelly over promised some fb recruits.

[UND-1]

The point is was UND counting on the 10 million for the IPA? If so it might be a long time to get it started. I guess Kelly over promised some fb recruits.

No he didn't over promise them. His promise, which is going to come true one way or another, is no different that what Saul has been telling basketball recruits for the past two years. Are any of the current players/recruits ever going to play in the new BB arena?

I am confident that President Kelley would not have turned down the 10 million dollars if he didn't have the pledge from Altru in hand. They would have known about these issues during negotiations.

Furthermore, what is going on at Altru financially with buildings, etc. does not always relate to marketing dollars - two separate areas. See Sanford as an example. Hospitals put large amounts into marketing.

[UND-1]

The point is was UND counting on the 10 million for the IPA? If so it might be a long time to get it started. I guess Kelly over promised some fb recruits.

Also, what I am happy about as far as UND's IPF goes, is how short-sighted NDSU was with their indoor track facility - no turf? Just a track facility. It will make UND's look really nice to recruits.

[Bison Dan]

Also, what I am happy about as far as UND's IPF goes, is how short-sighted NDSU was with their indoor track facility - no turf? Just a track facility. It will make UND's look really nice to recruits.

Not every school has the same needs. Once we get the final monies for the BSA the softball complex will be upgraded. We'll have all our facilities in one area and all new and impressive.

[FargoBison]

Also, what I am happy about as far as UND's IPF goes, is how short-sighted NDSU was with their indoor track facility - no turf? Just a track facility. It will make UND's look really nice to recruits.

Yeah it is pretty short sighted to not build an indoor football practice facility when the Fargodome is sitting right across the street.....

[homer]

Yeah it is pretty short sighted to not build an indoor football practice facility when the Fargodome is sitting right across the street.....

Is the turf down all the time in the Fargodome? Last time I was in there, there was a homeshow going on. Thanks to all the bison fans for the concern regarding our facilities.

[UNDBIZ]

Is the turf down all the time in the Fargodome? Last time I was in there, there was a homeshow going on. Thanks to all the bison fans for the concern regarding our facilities.

I hear the weight room/training facilities in the Fargodome are pretty nice......

[UND-1]

Yeah it is pretty short sighted to not build an indoor football practice facility when the Fargodome is sitting right across the street.....

Do they do their winter workouts in the Fargodome? Is it available at their beckon call? The answers are no and everytime they do want to use it, which is ONLY in the spring and fall, they have to pay for it. UND has the same availability at the Alerus.

[FargoBison]

Do they do their winter workouts in the Fargodome? Is it available at their beckon call? The answers are no and everytime they do want to use it, which is ONLY in the spring and fall, they have to pay for it. UND has the same availability at the Alerus.

NDSU has like 40 practices in the dome a year, I'm sure there have been a few conflicts but the NDSU football program pretty much gets what it wants. The contract between the school and the dome spells out a certain number of days NDSU can use the dome, I think it even allows for practice time for the softball and baseball teams.

Plus it isn't like we practice on just grass outside, we have a sprinturf field. Not sure spending an additional $5 million for an indoor football facility is worth it, especially when that $5 million is needed for the BSA.

[MplsBison]

It doesn't matter if NDSU actually "needs" a dedicated indoor field facility or if they can get by with the Fargodome.

Perception is entirely what sells recruits on a college football program.

I don't know how to explain this to you so you'll understand, maybe you won't budge anyway. But I guarantee you that if you take a tour of NDSU's football facilities in 5 years (assuming nothing new is built other than the indoor track and the BSA renovation) and then tour UND's facilities in 5 years (assuming the IPF is built) - you're going to say to yourself "wow...this IPF is such a nice facility for football, I wish NDSU had something that could match this".

And that's the failure. No one can see it now. But they will.

There's really nothing that can be done about it anyway. The indoor track is bought and paid for and being constructed now. It can't be expanded at any reasonable cost less than just building a whole new facility anyway. And even if NDSU decided they wanted something that could match the IPF for the Bison football program, there is no political way within the university or the athletic department to divert money away from the BSA project to that.

The BSA "renovation" is going to be an anchor around the neck of NDSU's fund raising for years to come. I hope Bohl is satisfied with what he has to work with now, because it's going to be well into 5-10 years before any significant new facilities can be built for football.

[JohnboyND7]

NDSU has like 40 practices in the dome a year, I'm sure there have been a few conflicts but the NDSU football program pretty much gets what it wants. The contract between the school and the dome spells out a certain number of days NDSU can use the dome, I think it even allows for practice time for the softball and baseball teams.

Plus it isn't like we practice on just grass outside, we have a sprinturf field. Not sure spending an additional $5 million for an indoor football facility is worth it, especially when that $5 million is needed for the BSA.

I never see them practicing anywhere but outside. So 40 practices a year is equivalent to practicing inside 8 weeks of the season. They do no such thing.

I don't see a need for an indoor building to practice. Nothing wrong with practicing outside.

[FargoBison]

I never see them practicing anywhere but outside. So 40 practices a year is equivalent to practicing inside 8 weeks of the season. They do no such thing.

I don't see a need for an indoor building to practice. Nothing wrong with practicing outside.

They do, I'm not making it up. That is including the spring.

You do realize last season went from August to January.

[dakotadan]

I guess I missed in the article where it said that Altru was flat broke and has not already/ will never again donate a penny to UND for anything.

What I did see was that Altru had spent years planning a complete makeover of its main campus and major expansions into south Grand Forks but has decided to push those plans back by two years. After spending all of that time planning such a major undertaking and then buying another hospital, it is just prudent and good business to relook at all of those plans and blueprints.

But I guess I will leave the forensic accounting to others.

As far as the IPF, I'm not holding my breath until we actually hear a peep out of the athletic department. I'm not sure why they are so tight lipped on what their plans are and what they hope to build in the future.

[iramurphy]

I believe it is accurate to say Altru has come through with a sizable donation and UND has about $15.6 million pledged thus far. This facility project should start picking up speed.

The Sanford donation offer was there. The biggest problem with the athletic training issue is the orthopedic coverage. UND is covered well by Altru with Drs Mann and Greek and the Family Medicine residents for primary care. 90% of athletic injuries are taken care of by the athletic trainers and 90% of the rest can be taken care of by primary care physicians with Sports Medicine experience. UND has that covered well right now. There is not a consistent ortho referral pattern and Sanford has no orthopedic surgeons in EGF or GF so that makes it tougher for Sanford to upgrade. Sanford has an excellent Ortho staff and multiple physicians with Sports Medicine training and experience. Getting the Sports Medicine contract was the center point of the $10,000,000 donation. I believe Sanford would like to develop a collaborative relationship with the UND med school and be the provider of Sports Medicine. The Altru donation probably puts a damper on those wishes.

[UND Fan]

I believe it is accurate to say Altru has come through with a sizable donation and UND has about $15.6 million pledged thus far. This facility project should start picking up speed. The Sanford donation offer was there. The biggest problem with the athletic training issue is the orthopedic coverage. UND is covered well by Altru with Drs Mann and Greek and the Family Medicine residents for primary care. 90% of athletic injuries are taken care of by the athletic trainers and 90% of the rest can be taken care of by primary care physicians with Sports Medicine experience. UND has that covered well right now. There is not a consistent ortho referral pattern and Sanford has no orthopedic surgeons in EGF or GF so that makes it tougher for Sanford to upgrade. Sanford has an excellent Ortho staff and multiple physicians with Sports Medicine training and experience. Getting the Sports Medicine contract was the center point of the $10,000,000 donation. I believe Sanford would like to develop a collaborative relationship with the UND med school and be the provider of Sports Medicine. The Altru donation probably puts a damper on those wishes.

Thanks for the update, Ira - what is the latest projection on the total cost of the facility?