Illinois State @ UND 11/13/21

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

Our chances are closer to none than slim. 
There are about 20 teams over .500 that are below the top 25 teams.
24 make the playoffs.
We are 5-5.

[geaux_sioux]

8 hours ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

Our chances are closer to none than slim. 
There are about 20 teams over .500 that are below the top 25 teams.
24 make the playoffs.
We are 5-5.

But how many of them have 4 quality losses by less than a TD each???? We have some losses, yes. But they’re all impressive losses. I saw the losses and said to myself, “wow, those are some nice losses.”

[UNDBIZ]

1 minute ago, geaux_sioux said:

But how many of them have 4 quality losses by less than a TD each???? We have some losses, yes. But they’re all impressive losses. I saw the losses and said to myself, “wow, those are some nice losses.”

2015 WIU < 2021 UND 

[Midwestern Hawk]

Our playoff chances ended with the meltdown in Springfield, Mo.  From a personnel standpoint, this is likely the best UND team ever and it will finish 5-6 or 6-5.   Lots of introspection needs to be done from Chaves and Bubba all the way down the ladder as to why it did not win the MVFC or at a minimum receive a seed in the playoffs.

@ Idaho State - good win in a place where UND teams have traditionally gone to lay an egg.

@Utah State - Danny emptied out the bag of tricks in the first quarter and it was all down hill after that.  Outscored 41-3 over the last 3 quarters.

Drake - Win against a vastly overmatched team.  5 turnovers in the game.  No Otis.

NDSU - The biggest game ever held in Grand Forks, one coaching meltdown on a certain 4th down changed the course of the season and probably UND football.

@USD - uninspired play from team, USD 10 points on their first 2 drives, offense fails to capitalize on punt block and starts the second half with a timeout.

@SIU - Again defense is lifeless for first 2 drives and spots SIU a 14-0 lead, then scores UND's first points.  Offense comes alive in the last minute of first half to tie the game.  UND blocks SIU first drive punt deep in SIU end, no points.  Have chances at end but use bizarre clock and game management techniques.  No Otis.

WIU - Beat an overmatched team, still many questionable calls and game management situations(end of half).

@MSU - Seem to have game in hand on the road 28-17.  Very questionable calls on 3rd and 4th downs combined with defense who seemed to be checked out leads to loss in the last minute of game.

YSU - UND plays uninspired football and but comes back in 4th qtr to beat a struggling Youngstown team.

ISU - UND plays great defense and scores a late TD to beat ISU in front of tiny Alerus "crowd".

 

[Sioux>Bison]

9 hours ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

Our chances are closer to none than slim. 
There are about 20 teams over .500 that are below the top 25 teams.
24 make the playoffs.
We are 5-5.

The FCS as a whole is pretty soft. A 6-5 record in the MVFC is comparable to a 8-3 record in a soft conference. There is still a chance but I agree it isn’t very big.

[Sioux>Bison]

19 hours ago, ND-fan said:

I don't know how are chances are to being selected to the playoffs but i have to think if we do beat SDSU they have to be not considered for the playoffs or am i missing something. They would have 4 and 4 conference record ending the season on two game loosing streak and would have 3 of their 4 conference losses at home.  Also they there second half of season would have record of 2-3 not team showing improvement but declining as the season is going along. I see where most feel they are shoe in for the playoffs but i believe they have to be on bubble and will get in because of Missouri Valley conference and politics of the conference. That is why see our chances of getting in small being the new school to the conference and because of our record. I have feeling we will be lucky to get team to semifinals this year out the Missouri Valley i just don't see any of teams that don't have some weakness in make up their teams not like in past years where NDSU and other top schools in conference were in top five  schools in FCS. I may all be wrong on this but UND making the playoffs i got to believe are slim at best especially when looking at latest rankings see we weren't even receiving any votes for the top 25. 

It would be a shame if SDSU doesn’t make the playoffs even with a loss next week. They are literally one of the top teams in the country and if the playoff field doesn’t include them why play in such a tough conference if that isn’t considered. I’m my opinion the MVFC deserves at least 5 teams if not 6. The bottom half of the top 25 are not impressive at all.

[UND1983]

6 minutes ago, Sioux&gt;Bison said:

It would be a shame if SDSU doesn’t make the playoffs even with a loss next week. They are literally one of the top teams in the country and if the playoff field doesn’t include them why play in such a tough conference if that isn’t considered. I’m my opinion the MVFC deserves at least 5 teams if not 6. The bottom half of the top 25 are not impressive at all.

They are literally not one of the top teams in the country.  Have you watched them play all year - their own fans know they are not even close to as good as people think they are.  They were better in the spring and got up for NDSU at home, just like we did. 

[Midwestern Hawk]

27 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

They are literally not one of the top teams in the country.  Have you watched them play all year - their own fans know they are not even close to as good as people think they are.  They were better in the spring and got up for NDSU at home, just like we did. 

Not difficult to figure out what is different for SDSU

Spring: 

Gronowski: 108-188 for 1,565 yards 15 TDS and 3 INT's , 83 rushes for 663 yards and 7 TD's (7.0 avg)

Fall:

Oladukun: 165-263 for 2,211 yards, 17 TD's and 5 INT's, 48 rushes for 199 yards and 2 TD's (2.1 avg)

Multi-dimensional QB changes everything.  Hopefully Feeney and Q are given long look in spring and fall camp.

[siouxfan512]

4 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

Not difficult to figure out what is different for SDSU

Spring: 

Gronowski: 108-188 for 1,565 yards 15 TDS and 3 INT's , 83 rushes for 663 yards and 7 TD's (7.0 avg)

Fall:

Oladukun: 165-263 for 2,211 yards, 17 TD's and 5 INT's, 48 rushes for 199 yards and 2 TD's (2.1 avg)

Multi-dimensional QB changes everything.  Hopefully Feeney and Q are given long look in spring and fall camp.

I really don't think Q is all that multi dimensional. Any time they run him it is up the gut. Doesn't seem to have the speed and twitch to get to a hole fast or get outside and make something on a scramble. I'm not saying he has never run successfully (for more than a yard or so), but certainly not like what you see from true dual threat QBs. That and his arm hasn't exactly put on a show either, and he has been give more opportunities this fall.

Not saying Q is a bad QB or player, but if we are going to talk about top tier, game changing QBs, I just wouldn't put him in that conversation yet. I actually think Tommy would be a more successful runner, if he would just take his opportunities; there have been plenty of them.

[the green team]

1 hour ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

Our playoff chances ended with the meltdown in Springfield, Mo.  From a personnel standpoint, this is likely the best UND team ever and it will finish 5-6 or 6-5.   Lots of introspection needs to be done from Chaves and Bubba all the way down the ladder as to why it did not win the MVFC or at a minimum receive a seed in the playoffs.

@ Idaho State - good win in a place where UND teams have traditionally gone to lay an egg.

@Utah State - Danny emptied out the bag of tricks in the first quarter and it was all down hill after that.  Outscored 41-3 over the last 3 quarters.

Drake - Win against a vastly overmatched team.  5 turnovers in the game.  No Otis.

NDSU - The biggest game ever held in Grand Forks, one coaching meltdown on a certain 4th down changed the course of the season and probably UND football.

@USD - uninspired play from team, USD 10 points on their first 2 drives, offense fails to capitalize on punt block and starts the second half with a timeout.

@SIU - Again defense is lifeless for first 2 drives and spots SIU a 14-0 lead, then scores UND's first points.  Offense comes alive in the last minute of first half to tie the game.  UND blocks SIU first drive punt deep in SIU end, no points.  Have chances at end but use bizarre clock and game management techniques.  No Otis.

WIU - Beat an overmatched team, still many questionable calls and game management situations(end of half).

@MSU - Seem to have game in hand on the road 28-17.  Very questionable calls on 3rd and 4th downs combined with defense who seemed to be checked out leads to loss in the last minute of game.

YSU - UND plays uninspired football and but comes back in 4th qtr to beat a struggling Youngstown team.

ISU - UND plays great defense and scores a late TD to beat ISU in front of tiny Alerus "crowd".

 

Aren’t we 5 and 1 all time at Holt Arena-Idaho State? I don’t think that equates to going there and traditionally  laying an egg?

[siouxfan512]

5 minutes ago, the green team said:

Aren’t we 5 and 1 all time at Holt Arena-Idaho State? I don’t think that equates to going there and traditionally  laying an egg?

I only remember one bad loss there. The others came at home.

[The Sicatoka]

For what it's worth (and to the eyes of the FCS committee it's not worth much), Massey has UND at 14. 

UND's FCS losses? To #1, #11, #6, and #4. 

Beating #2 (SDSU) is a must however. Control what's yours to control.

 

Beyond that ... it's no longer in your control. 

[Midwestern Hawk]

12 minutes ago, the green team said:

Aren’t we 5 and 1 all time at Holt Arena-Idaho State? I don’t think that equates to going there and traditionally  laying an egg?

Correct.  My mistake.  Lay an egg vs ISU.  Couldn't get the last visit to Holt out of my mind.

[siouxfan512]

I will say this regarding the playoff situation and I have been pretty vocal that we have no chance here, BUT:

IF UND can go into Brookings and get the win, and by some miracle UNI were to lose, we should absolutely be in over SDSU.

The same way I said USD should be in over UND based on head to head matchup, we should be in over SDSU. To me, head to head is the first criteria, after that we wouldn't have a resume to top them, but if we beat them that should be the first tie break in my mind.

 

[Midwestern Hawk]

26 minutes ago, siouxfan512 said:

I really don't think Q is all that multi dimensional. Any time they run him it is up the gut. Doesn't seem to have the speed and twitch to get to a hole fast or get outside and make something on a scramble. I'm not saying he has never run successfully (for more than a yard or so), but certainly not like what you see from true dual threat QBs. That and his arm hasn't exactly put on a show either, and he has been give more opportunities this fall.

Not saying Q is a bad QB or player, but if we are going to talk about top tier, game changing QBs, I just wouldn't put him in that conversation yet. I actually think Tommy would be a more successful runner, if he would just take his opportunities; there have been plenty of them.

Not saying it 's Q, he has looked bad on his last 2 pass attempts.  Hopefully its Feeney.  If Tommy was going to be a runner, it would have already happened.  Hopefully its Feeney.  

[Nodak78]

1 minute ago, The Sicatoka said:

For what it's worth (and to the eyes of the FCS committee it's not worth much), Massey has UND at 14. 

UND's FCS losses? To #1, #11, #6, and #4. 

Beating #2 (SDSU) is a must however. Control what's yours to control.

 

Beyond that ... it's no longer in your control. 

Yes beat SDSU.  Not sure how the committee will view UND losses to ranked opponents.  Some of the last four might not even play a ranked opponent.  There in lies  the rub of the MVFC.

[siouxfan512]

Just now, Midwestern Hawk said:

Not saying it 's Q, he has looked bad on his last 2 pass attempts.  Hopefully its Feeney.  If Tommy was going to be a runner, it would have already happened.  Hopefully its Feeney.  

Right, and I have no clue if that is in Feeney's toolbox or not. The frustrating part with Tommy, is he is athletic enough to do more of it, even if he isn't truly a run threat; he may not create those opportunities, but he could certainly capitalize on the ones that are there. Its mental for him, he just needs to look at that as an option more often. Maybe have Christian "Happy Feet" Ponder give him a call, that guy would scramble and try to run with 3 receivers wide open.

[siouxfan512]

Yes, beat SDSU or the rest of this is moot. Actually its nice that we are at least able to talk and still have some reason to watch at the end of the season, but can't help but think of all of the would of, should of, could of moments. A handful of different plays/corrected mistakes and this could be a 2, or even 1, loss team.

That being said, even with the wins, we lack consistency. We looked far superior in all of our losses than we did this past weekend (at least offensively).

[sioux24/7]

2 minutes ago, siouxfan512 said:

Right, and I have no clue if that is in Feeney's toolbox or not. The frustrating part with Tommy, is he is athletic enough to do more of it, even if he isn't truly a run threat; he may not create those opportunities, but he could certainly capitalize on the ones that are there. Its mental for him, he just needs to look at that as an option more often. Maybe have Christian "Happy Feet" Ponder give him a call, that guy would scramble and try to run with 3 receivers wide open.

Bingo. Tommy certainly isn’t slow or unathletic, he would just prefer to try to use his arm and avoid getting hit running with the ball. I would think there would be somewhat of an open competition for the job but more so between Tommy and Trey. 

[Midwestern Hawk]

5 minutes ago, siouxfan512 said:

Right, and I have no clue if that is in Feeney's toolbox or not. The frustrating part with Tommy, is he is athletic enough to do more of it, even if he isn't truly a run threat; he may not create those opportunities, but he could certainly capitalize on the ones that are there. Its mental for him, he just needs to look at that as an option more often. Maybe have Christian "Happy Feet" Ponder give him a call, that guy would scramble and try to run with 3 receivers wide open.

I'm nervous that Bubba/Danny have attached themselves to Tommy as QB as long as he is eligible and that Tommy at UND will outlive Bubba at UND.  Obviously it is not all Tommy's fault, but for much of this season the offense has been just plain bad, including last Saturday vs ISU.  Thankfully the combo of our D and their pathetic offense let us win with 14 points.

[siouxfan512]

1 minute ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

I'm nervous that Bubba/Danny have attached themselves to Tommy as QB as long as he is eligible and that Tommy at UND will outlive Bubba at UND.

Its a legit worry, which is the wrong mentality to have. We can't just stick with the status quo and expect to be successful. If Tommy truly wins the job, then so be it. If Q comes in and starts surprising people then awesome, and if Trey is the guy, then get him on the field. 

I understand the concern of putting in a guy with little to know college experience over a guy that has honestly had a decent amount of success, despite not always looking the part, BUT put your best talent on the field. That is why it is so critical to get some of these guys more reps late in games whenever possible.

To me, Tommy is effective, but even if we gave him a high end receiver, I'm not sure he can get the ball down the field. The first thought I had when I saw the USD hail mary was that Tommy would have probably thrown that 20 yards shorter.

[homer]

1 hour ago, Sioux&gt;Bison said:

It would be a shame if SDSU doesn’t make the playoffs even with a loss next week. They are literally one of the top teams in the country and if the playoff field doesn’t include them why play in such a tough conference if that isn’t considered. I’m my opinion the MVFC deserves at least 5 teams if not 6. The bottom half of the top 25 are not impressive at all.

They made that decision by choosing to play a non qualifying transitional D2 team for one of their non conference wins.  This is what has them at 6 D1 wins right now and on the bubble.  

[geaux_sioux]

51 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

Not difficult to figure out what is different for SDSU

Spring: 

Gronowski: 108-188 for 1,565 yards 15 TDS and 3 INT's , 83 rushes for 663 yards and 7 TD's (7.0 avg)

Fall:

Oladukun: 165-263 for 2,211 yards, 17 TD's and 5 INT's, 48 rushes for 199 yards and 2 TD's (2.1 avg)

Multi-dimensional QB changes everything.  Hopefully Feeney and Q are given long look in spring and fall camp.

Their current QB can run perfectly well. He just doesn’t. They’re probably gun shy about losing him after how last spring played out and want to keep him in the pocket.

[Midwestern Hawk]

1 minute ago, siouxfan512 said:

Its a legit worry, which is the wrong mentality to have. We can't just stick with the status quo and expect to be successful. If Tommy truly wins the job, then so be it. If Q comes in and starts surprising people then awesome, and if Trey is the guy, then get him on the field. 

I understand the concern of putting in a guy with little to know college experience over a guy that has honestly had a decent amount of success, despite not always looking the part, BUT put your best talent on the field. That is why it is so critical to get some of these guys more reps late in games whenever possible.

To me, Tommy is effective, but even if we gave him a high end receiver, I'm not sure he can get the ball down the field. The first thought I had when I saw the USD hail mary was that Tommy would have probably thrown that 20 yards shorter.

I had the same thought.  Tommy's only real long pass of game Saturday (over 20 yards in air) should have been picked and would have been picked if not for Boltmann making a spectacular play.  If we had a burner or two, i think we would all be even more frustrated with the UND offense.

[Midwestern Hawk]

2 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

Their current QB can run perfectly well. He just doesn’t. They’re probably gun shy about losing him after how last spring played out and want to keep him in the pocket.

Tommy can also run perfectly well, but he just is NOT a runner.  I have not watched much SDSU this season.  Will watch a couple games this week.  A running QB changes everything the DC has to plan for and can make a good team great.