Future of the UND Football Program

[GoHawks]

9 hours ago, Und246 said:

I don’t think it is time to over react. In spite of our record we have a lot of talent and we are a very improved team. I know it is hard to believe. Unfortunately we have had some really bad coaching decisions and some bad play executions happen at very inopportune times in several games. They came back to haunt us. If those mistakes would be corrected the future could be bright. There is hope. 

This hasn't been going on just this year though. Been going on for years under Bubba!

[geaux_sioux]

11 hours ago, UND1983 said:

You feel Danny has been overmatched by our opponents?  Interesting take.

I’d say it’s more of Danny overmatching himself at times. There are games where his play calls just flow together and it’s a thing of beauty. Then there are moments that leave us all befuddled. I just don’t remember a time where it felt like an opposing defense just schemed our offense into the ground. There have been game where the opposing d just had superior players though.

[UND1983]

3 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

I’d say it’s more of Danny overmatching himself at times. There are games where his play calls just flow together and it’s a thing of beauty. Then there are moments that leave us all befuddled. I just don’t remember a time where it felt like an opposing defense just schemed our offense into the ground. There have been game where the opposing d just had superior players though.

I would agree with this.  Even vs NDSU, the Bison fans were gushing about how great their defense was all game.  UND outgained them and scored the same amount of TD's.  Was UND's defense great then, too?  Danny needs to figure out what he wants to do in short yardage and stick to it.  No more trick plays.  

[Midwestern Hawk]

14 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

I’d say it’s more of Danny overmatching himself at times. There are games where his play calls just flow together and it’s a thing of beauty. Then there are moments that leave us all befuddled. I just don’t remember a time where it felt like an opposing defense just schemed our offense into the ground. There have been game where the opposing d just had superior players though.

I agree with this for the most part.  There is a time and a place for everything and 4th and 2 and 3rd and 1 and 4th and 1 is not the place for "tricks" when we can run the ball very effectively and/or we have the lead.  In a much different way, our offense is just as predictable now as it was under Rudolph, just in a completely different way scheme-wise.  

2 formation shifts, then a back comes in motion across faking the jet sweep and we throw a 4 yard crosser or hit the motion back in the flat.  At some point all the motion just causes motion penalties and the defense no longer cares because we always end up in the same sets.

[Irish]

51 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

I agree with this for the most part.  There is a time and a place for everything and 4th and 2 and 3rd and 1 and 4th and 1 is not the place for "tricks" when we can run the ball very effectively and/or we have the lead.  In a much different way, our offense is just as predictable now as it was under Rudolph, just in a completely different way scheme-wise.  

2 formation shifts, then a back comes in motion across faking the jet sweep and we throw a 4 yard crosser or hit the motion back in the flat.  At some point all the motion just causes motion penalties and the defense no longer cares because we always end up in the same sets.

I think Danny has either regressed or failed to adapt.  I remember when we finally got ride of Rudy and he was like a breath of fresh air.  Not so much anymore.  I agree that he has become predictable.  Our first problem is that other than our "trick" plays we don't keep any defense off balance or guessing.  And we are seemingly unable to make teams pay for overloading or overplaying when they figure us out.  Some of this may be due to our personnel, but hey, who recruited and assembled this offense.  Our overall stats look ok because we are world-beaters against some weak teams.  Look at our offense against good teams.  Not good.  Add in "4th down Bubba" and here we are with a losing record.  Something needs to change and the odds of Bubba doing some true introspection are practically nil.  

[gfhockey]

Bubba wants to be on the riverboat gambling 

[geaux_sioux]

1 hour ago, Irish said:

I think Danny has either regressed or failed to adapt.  I remember when we finally got ride of Rudy and he was like a breath of fresh air.  Not so much anymore.  I agree that he has become predictable.  Our first problem is that other than our "trick" plays we don't keep any defense off balance or guessing.  And we are seemingly unable to make teams pay for overloading or overplaying when they figure us out.  Some of this may be due to our personnel, but hey, who recruited and assembled this offense.  Our overall stats look ok because we are world-beaters against some weak teams.  Look at our offense against good teams.  Not good.  Add in "4th down Bubba" and here we are with a losing record.  Something needs to change and the odds of Bubba doing some true introspection are practically nil.  

Predictable? Gadget plays on huge 4th downs are considered predictable?

[shep]

18 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

Predictable? Gadget plays on huge 4th downs are considered predictable?

Earlier in this thread, they were being denounced as overthinking.  
 

should have just lined up and handed the ball to Otis.  That would have been predictable.

 

[Sioux94]

2 hours ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

I agree with this for the most part.  There is a time and a place for everything and 4th and 2 and 3rd and 1 and 4th and 1 is not the place for "tricks" when we can run the ball very effectively and/or we have the lead.  In a much different way, our offense is just as predictable now as it was under Rudolph, just in a completely different way scheme-wise.  

2 formation shifts, then a back comes in motion across faking the jet sweep and we throw a 4 yard crosser or hit the motion back in the flat.  At some point all the motion just causes motion penalties and the defense no longer cares because we always end up in the same sets.

I kind of agree with this, and wasn't able to see the play this weekend due to streaming being out.  However remember at Cal Poly, when I think it was Boltmann who went in motion to the left on 4th and 2, and we faked a hand off (I think) and we hit the TE on a crossing route and he took it in for a TD and the win.  Danny was the hero and I think nearly everyone said it was a great call.  Now if that pass goes incomplete, Danny looks like an idiot and we are asking why didn't we run it.  Again not saying he shouldn't have run Otis on this 4th down this weekend, but trick plays either look really good or really silly depending on if they work or not.  I'm guessing the 5 times they ran it in practice previous to the game the executed it just fine.  The 4th down against NDSU, a reverse that didn't work, also looked dumb.  When there is extra pressure on when running a 4th down and short and so many guys right at the line of scrimmage, yeah probably not the best time to run some of these gadget plays.  It certainly hasn't worked lately.  I know we were running the ball fairly well this past weekend, but not sure how well we were running it when it was a predictable run play because I couldn't see the second half.  We seem to struggle when the defense knows it's a running play, so I think that is part of reason Danny goes to the bag of tricks.....and it hasn't worked.  

[Parkers Pros]

If we would have gotten our O-Line back from this spring our record would be different. But we are young, inexperienced, and possibly just a bit outclassed on the line at times. Most of these short yardage turnover plays are 1st downs in stead of turnovers and Danny has more faith to hand it to Otis straight ahead instead of trying to fool defenses. Nate Ngoun was a huge, huge loss!

[Irish]

41 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

Predictable? Gadget plays on huge 4th downs are considered predictable?

Predictable with periods of poor timing when running his "gadgets".  Other than these flops we are pretty easy to defend.

[Midwestern Hawk]

37 minutes ago, Parkers Pros said:

If we would have gotten our O-Line back from this spring our record would be different. But we are young, inexperienced, and possibly just a bit outclassed on the line at times. Most of these short yardage turnover plays are 1st downs in stead of turnovers and Danny has more faith to hand it to Otis straight ahead instead of trying to fool defenses. Nate Ngoun was a huge, huge loss!

I disagree, not sure if it was always this way with Danny but our offense is not a championship offense.  We can argue as to why that is, but way too many gadget plays all season.  41 carries for 270 yards in the game vs MSU, 6.2 yards per carry.   If we were averaging 10 yards a carry would we have just run the ball?

Right now we have 14 TD passes on the season...

9 for Tommy

2 for Quincy

2 for Brock

1 for Richter

I'll take heat for this, but when has that happened at Alabama under Saban?  It's indicative of the entire offense.   One of Tommy TD passes was a gadget play too.

The 4th and 2 play is at about the 57 second mark....with that play call we deserved to lose.

https://missouristatebears.com/watch/?Archive=1772&type=Archive

 

If you watch the play Belquist was going to throw it to Quincy.  

......and then maybe Quincy was going to lateral it to Waletzko?

 

[UNDBIZ]

The play a couple (few?) seasons ago against cal poly where we play action passed to the TE was a trick of beauty. The attempted reverses this year remind me of Rudy against Richmond. 

[The Sicatoka]

Between the fourth down in your own end call v. NDSU, the continual lack of clock management, the terrible situational awareness (not realizing it's 4th down in the last home game), and this disaster, ...

It's time to move on, because the game has moved on from the head coach. 

[TheFlop]

1 hour ago, Parkers Pros said:

If we would have gotten our O-Line back from this spring our record would be different. But we are young, inexperienced, and possibly just a bit outclassed on the line at times. Most of these short yardage turnover plays are 1st downs in stead of turnovers and Danny has more faith to hand it to Otis straight ahead instead of trying to fool defenses. Nate Ngoun was a huge, huge loss!

Maybe true....but almost every team can say something similar.  Imagine if Trey Lance hadn't backed out of Spring ball?

[Dustin]

I've been trying to stay out of the football forums following Saturday's game, but wanted to ponder this topic.  Regardless of one's opinion of Bubba (and his current staff), there will be a new head coach for UND in the next few years (not soon enough for some, but anyway...), so where are we at with head coach options?  Are we talking a head coach not part of the current staff?  If so, who are good candidates?  Should the new person keep anyone from the current staff?  If so, who?  If we hire from the current staff, the likely candidates are Freund, Holinka, and Kostich.  Are any of them head coach material?  Of those 3, they've all shown their flashes, but also all been burned.   We seem to be in a tough position, coaching-wise.  Maybe that right there answers any and all questions.

[The Sicatoka]

8 minutes ago, Dustin said:

 so where are we at with head coach options?  

Can we do a real search where "while at UND" is not a de facto requirement on the resume? 

Or if that requirement will always be ... an option. 

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

The trickery in the long run seems to trick us more.
The complex offense plays seem to confuse us more often than their defense.
Clock management and quick snaps at appropriate times are not in our playbook. 
At times the offense, defense, and special teams shows uncertainty instead poised with confidence. Bubba also has this disease on the side lines. 
This team & coaches don't have a killer instinct. I'm not talking about winning by 50, but by still having that energy and drive of accomplishment at the end of close games to getter done.

[UND-FB-FAN]

On 11/1/2021 at 12:50 PM, UND1983 said:

OK.  So trying to think of all the FCS coaches that are getting plucked by FBS schools.  I come up with NDSU, SHSU (Fritz), JMU (Houston), Hauck went to UNLV 11 years ago to get his ass kicked and end up right back at Montana. Baldwin went to be an OC at Cal. Choate went to be a linebacker coach at Texas. 

So the programs whose coaches attract FBS offers are NDSU, JMU, SHSU, EWU, Montana and Montana State.  Shocker - all football first, national power schools.  
 

(also doing the downvote thing when you don't like a point being made is weaksh*t)

Your bitching is pathetic. You are getting down votes because your attempt at a point is embarrassing. You should want UND in the same conversation as NDSU, JMU, SHSU, EWU, Montana, and Montana State.  

“Football first”

“Hockey first” 

What ridiculous simplifications.

[UND-FB-FAN]

On 11/1/2021 at 1:03 PM, UND1983 said:

I could not care less if they move on from Bubba.  But thinking a new guy will come in and revitalize the program for a few years, only to leave, and THAT will be the difference is not dealing in reality.  UND needs somebody who will be here for 7-10 years to build it to a Top 10 level every year - and hopefully then the next guy can build off that.  This isn't NDSU where every coach wins, no matter what.  

Compared to other sports, college football coaches have likely the largest impact on the success (or lack thereof) of the program. Well, well documented that quick turnarounds are frequented when good coaches take over. 

[UND1983]

4 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Your bitching is pathetic. You are getting down votes because your attempt at a point is embarrassing. You should want UND in the same conversation as NDSU, JMU, SHSU, EWU, Montana, and Montana State.  

“Football first”

“Hockey first” 

What ridiculous simplifications.

Wanting UND in the same conversation as those teams and realizing they aren't are two separate things, super smart football guy. If you don't see the difference between UND and those schools when it comes to an athletic department I dont know what to tell you. 

[UND1983]

4 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Compared to other sports, college football coaches have likely the largest impact on the success (or lack thereof) of the program. Well, well documented that quick turnarounds are frequented when good coaches take over. 

Right, then the guy leaves immediately for a G5 school and it all is on the NEXT hire to actually get something out of what he built. Which is why I said 7-10 years out of one guy, like Bohl did.  

 

[UND-FB-FAN]

On 11/1/2021 at 4:39 PM, Parkers Pros said:

Look, nothings gonna happen. We just won the league last year our 1st time out. He is under contract and it would be expensive to buy him out. Ya we have holes. But who do you get that won’t cause an exodus of players if the coach is fired. We have a good core, hopefully we are learning, looking at you Danny and Brent. We have a decent QB room, the best RB room in program history, solid WR, a good enough defense!  Starting over sounds silly!

So, don’t start over because Bubba might get UND to 0.500 in 2022 again? Regression to the mean. And fear to make the next splash hire and go outside the inbred UND coaching tree. Spring 2021: UND got killed @ NDSU and @ JMU; other than SDSU win at home, not sure that strange spring season is much to hang your hat on. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

5 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

Wanting UND in the same conversation as those teams and realizing they aren't are two separate things, super smart football guy. If you don't see the difference between UND and those schools when it comes to an athletic department I dont know what to tell you. 

Cool, now you are referring to athletic department “facts”?

Right …

Think what you want, ‘83. You’re bulletproof…

[UND-FB-FAN]

3 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

Right, then the guy leaves immediately for a G5 school and it all is on the NEXT hire to actually get something out of what he built. Which is why I said 7-10 years out of one guy, like Bohl did.  

 

IMO, Craig Bohl and Bubba Schweigert are not in the same coaching category.