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2020 non UND FCS thread


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3 hours ago, Bison06 said:

You lack an understanding of how time can change things. The landscape today will look nothing like what it will look like in 20 years. 

It could be worse, you don’t know either 

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A few opinions on this topic:

  • If NDSU's administration and athletic department along with their supporters are OK with playing in mid-level bowl games rather than national championships, they should move up.   Of course, they would need to find a conference that would accept them in all sports.   Due to geography, that may be difficult.  
  • I think NDSU can afford to move up.  Team Makers already generates more $ than is needed to fully fund all athletic scholarships, not just FB.  This is huge!  Continued financial growth is very possible due to the effectiveness of Team Makers, some well-healed boosters (example - the guy who wrote a $15M check so their indoor facility could be upgraded a bit and fully built now rather in two phases) and importantly, the huge growth in the Fargo metro area.  That means a significant growth of business in this market (both large and small) provides significant potential to raise much more $ on an annual basis!
  • As far as the level of success SU can achieve, I believe they could (over time) approach the success level of Boise State - which is quite good!  I don't think the university or their fans should assume they will be do any better than has Boise State.  That said, there are many FBS schools that would love to be compared with BSU.
  • Izzo isn't too far behind McFeely or Port in their efforts to create controversy/interest on many issues.  As others have said, that is simply part of journalism these days.

As the situation applies to UND:

  • The vast majority of UND alumni and fans wish UND had moved up at the same time as NDSU and SDSU.  There were two problems with our doing so back then - lack of institutional support/planning and $.  Heck, we really can't afford to effectively compete in DI today - I don't know how we could even consider moving up to FBS with NDSU.  I wish we could but it won't happen anytime soon.  We simply don't have the resources to do so.  Therefore, it would likely be embarrassing if we tried.  
  • The comment that, if NDSU moves up, both SD schools along with UND must do so as well.  I don't know if SDSU has the interest or the ability to move up but I am quite sure USD does not have the ability.
  • Regarding resources, I don't feel that the Champions Club produces nearly what they could/should on an annual basis.  I could provide a couple personal examples but will not do so in this in a public form.  I don't want anything I say to apply to any specific employees.  I will leave it at that but I have very strong feelings on this topic. 
  • Another example, in the drawer next to me, I have a copy of the original architectural drawing for the HPC.  It was given to me in a meeting with Josh Morton 11 years ago.  The assumption was that it would be fully completed within 3-4 years.  Contrary to what many on this board think, fundraising efforts have been a priority over the years but we are likely still a couple years away from its completion.  Bottom line - our ability to raise significant $ has not been good.  This fact makes a move to FBS even more of a pipe dream!     
  • Many have complained about Chaves' lack of effort in addressing certain things.  I thought Chaves would be very good but the jury is still out for me.  What I do know is that it is very tough for him to address some issues due to his budget constraints. 

In my reviewing the above, it comes across a little more negative than I had hoped but I will leave it as-is.  These are my opinions along with some facts.  I am not interested in debating any of this. 

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I took this from another site (AGS) and thought that this would add information to the discuss arounds budgets.  Disclaimer:  more than likely much of the accounting is simply transfers between departments at each school.  So, what is really in those numbers is kind of unknown more than likely not consistent between all schools. 

MVFC
North Dakota State $6,048,728
North Dakota $4,965,053
Illinois State $4,429,532
Youngstown State $4,349,972
Northern Iowa $4,281,286
Indiana State $4,256,090
Southern Illinois $4,212,321
South Dakota $4,031,135
South Dakota State $3,950,727
Missouri State $3,846,066
Murray State $3,514,694
Western Illinois $3,100,811

Big Sky
Montana State $6,955,242
Eastern Washington $6,739,278
UC Davis $5,754,648
Montana $5,747,021
Sacramento State $5,515,779
Northern Arizona $5,002,914
Cal Poly $4,546,931
Weber State $4,092,794
Portland State $4,092,668
Idaho State $3,993,358
Northern Colorado $3,882,353
Southern Utah $3,762,056

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The numbers spent by each of schools above may not be totally accurate but i do find it interesting the schools that were at the top of list were playing for national championship. The UND Fan above statements were very interesting and enlightening about fund raising and level of support for the schools. I do have one question and that is NDSU does go to FBS what changes will it mean for the structure of their other sports because of title 9. When they go to FBS the number of scholarships i believe will go up but how will they account for this to be in compliance with Title 9. I know not very much of fund raising but in past UND had national scope of past graduates and has that well dried up or have they lost much of that to name controversies over the last 10 to 15 years. I experienced the focus that large universities put on fund raising when one my children graduated from Iowa State from doctor programs and at graduation they had speaker durning ceremonies talk on giving to the university. Which I would say was little too pushy in my estimation but i may be behind the times. But getting back NDSU they may have money to move up and may be popular in Fargo but how does that play out to rest of the state for funding their institution and being part of the upper great plains. I am old school so i may be way out of touch but i think these are important things and higher education system needs to remember its just not city your in but whole state and region these institutions are part of.

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39 minutes ago, ND-fan said:

The numbers spent by each of schools above may not be totally accurate but i do find it interesting the schools that were at the top of list were playing for national championship. The UND Fan above statements were very interesting and enlightening about fund raising and level of support for the schools. I do have one question and that is NDSU does go to FBS what changes will it mean for the structure of their other sports because of title 9. When they go to FBS the number of scholarships i believe will go up but how will they account for this to be in compliance with Title 9. I know not very much of fund raising but in past UND had national scope of past graduates and has that well dried up or have they lost much of that to name controversies over the last 10 to 15 years. I experienced the focus that large universities put on fund raising when one my children graduated from Iowa State from doctor programs and at graduation they had speaker durning ceremonies talk on giving to the university. Which I would say was little too pushy in my estimation but i may be behind the times. But getting back NDSU they may have money to move up and may be popular in Fargo but how does that play out to rest of the state for funding their institution and being part of the upper great plains. I am old school so i may be way out of touch but i think these are important things and higher education system needs to remember its just not city your in but whole state and region these institutions are part of.

They could add Women's Hockey to offset the additional 22 scholarships.

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The numbers bandied about in past conversations about FBS was that is would take $2-4 million more annually compared to what is spent at FCS. This would cover 44 additional scholarships (22M / 22W) and increased coaching staffs and salaries and general department costs. These days I believe the numbers would lean closer to the $4 million figure. 

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21 hours ago, Bison06 said:

You lack an understanding of how time can change things. The landscape today will look nothing like what it will look like in 20 years. 

25 years ago Grand Forks, Fargo, Brookings, and Vermillion were where they were and in another 20 years they will still be where they are....Geography doesn't change with time....

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6 hours ago, UND Fan said:

A few opinions on this topic:

  • If NDSU's administration and athletic department along with their supporters are OK with playing in mid-level bowl games rather than national championships, they should move up.   Of course, they would need to find a conference that would accept them in all sports.   Due to geography, that may be difficult.  
  • I think NDSU can afford to move up.  Team Makers already generates more $ than is needed to fully fund all athletic scholarships, not just FB.  This is huge!  Continued financial growth is very possible due to the effectiveness of Team Makers, some well-healed boosters (example - the guy who wrote a $15M check so their indoor facility could be upgraded a bit and fully built now rather in two phases) and importantly, the huge growth in the Fargo metro area.  That means a significant growth of business in this market (both large and small) provides significant potential to raise much more $ on an annual basis!
  • As far as the level of success SU can achieve, I believe they could (over time) approach the success level of Boise State - which is quite good!  I don't think the university or their fans should assume they will be do any better than has Boise State.  That said, there are many FBS schools that would love to be compared with BSU.
  • Izzo isn't too far behind McFeely or Port in their efforts to create controversy/interest on many issues.  As others have said, that is simply part of journalism these days.

As the situation applies to UND:

  • The vast majority of UND alumni and fans wish UND had moved up at the same time as NDSU and SDSU.  There were two problems with our doing so back then - lack of institutional support/planning and $.  Heck, we really can't afford to effectively compete in DI today - I don't know how we could even consider moving up to FBS with NDSU.  I wish we could but it won't happen anytime soon.  We simply don't have the resources to do so.  Therefore, it would likely be embarrassing if we tried.  
  • The comment that, if NDSU moves up, both SD schools along with UND must do so as well.  I don't know if SDSU has the interest or the ability to move up but I am quite sure USD does not have the ability.
  • Regarding resources, I don't feel that the Champions Club produces nearly what they could/should on an annual basis.  I could provide a couple personal examples but will not do so in this in a public form.  I don't want anything I say to apply to any specific employees.  I will leave it at that but I have very strong feelings on this topic. 
  • Another example, in the drawer next to me, I have a copy of the original architectural drawing for the HPC.  It was given to me in a meeting with Josh Morton 11 years ago.  The assumption was that it would be fully completed within 3-4 years.  Contrary to what many on this board think, fundraising efforts have been a priority over the years but we are likely still a couple years away from its completion.  Bottom line - our ability to raise significant $ has not been good.  This fact makes a move to FBS even more of a pipe dream!     
  • Many have complained about Chaves' lack of effort in addressing certain things.  I thought Chaves would be very good but the jury is still out for me.  What I do know is that it is very tough for him to address some issues due to his budget constraints. 

In my reviewing the above, it comes across a little more negative than I had hoped but I will leave it as-is.  These are my opinions along with some facts.  I am not interested in debating any of this. 

A few comments here:

Team Makers is a money raising machine at this point.  Hell, there are business owners in Frisco, TX donating annually.  Bison fans feel free to chime in here and confirm or deny.  Secondly, as to UND,  sadly I believe that the Sioux name saga has hindered us on the fundraising side, which is outside of anyone's control      

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8 hours ago, Shawn-O said:

A few comments here:

Team Makers is a money raising machine at this point.  Hell, there are business owners in Frisco, TX donating annually.  Bison fans feel free to chime in here and confirm or deny.  Secondly, as to UND,  sadly I believe that the Sioux name saga has hindered us on the fundraising side, which is outside of anyone's control      

Yes there are a couple of businesses in Frisco that are Team Maker members

They love us down there.

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2 hours ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

25 years ago Grand Forks, Fargo, Brookings, and Vermillion were where they were and in another 20 years they will still be where they are....Geography doesn't change with time....

Thank you for that valuable input.

Markets do change however. Population growth in Fargo could make it a much more attractive TV market in 20 years.

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2 hours ago, Bison06 said:

Thank you for that valuable input.

Markets do change however. Population growth in Fargo could make it a much more attractive TV market in 20 years.

and no other market anywhere south of nodak hasn't grown too ....at a faster rate....with more sun...and law schools and business schools....and nicer stadiums.....and more alumni...with more money....

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50 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

and no other market anywhere south of nodak hasn't grown too ....at a faster rate....with more sun...and law schools and business schools....and nicer stadiums.....and more alumni...with more money....

We are specifically talking about NDSU here. If you'd like to talk about a different FCS team and the potential they have to move up to FBS feel free to bring up a specific team. Absent another team to discuss, I brought up the assets NDSU has in regards to a move up.

Objectively, the fargo area is booming with growth, others have said as much on this thread. Which part of that do you disagree with?

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18 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

We are specifically talking about NDSU here. If you'd like to talk about a different FCS team and the potential they have to move up to FBS feel free to bring up a specific team. Absent another team to discuss, I brought up the assets NDSU has in regards to a move up.

Objectively, the fargo area is booming with growth, others have said as much on this thread. Which part of that do you disagree with?

disagree with? that ndac is desireable to any current fbs conference out there.....bc...................................................location.

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17 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

disagree with? that ndac is desireable to any current fbs conference out there.....bc...................................................location.

Disagree that Fargo is growing and will continue to grow based on all projections making Fargo a more desirable TV market in the future than it currently is.

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13 hours ago, Bison06 said:

Disagree that Fargo is growing and will continue to grow based on all projections making Fargo a more desirable TV market in the future than it currently is.

If NDSU isn’t desirable right now for an invite what will it take? Bigger TV market? How about better academics, research  and bigger enrollment. 
 

P5 is about more than TV markets and a good football team. You need to have a top tier University in order to ever be considered for a P5 conference. I’m 20 years NDSU will be just as far away from the P5 as it is now! Who knows if they will even get a G5 invite in 20 years!

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30 minutes ago, Sioux>Bison said:

If NDSU isn’t desirable right now for an invite what will it take? Bigger TV market? How about better academics, research  and bigger enrollment. 
 

P5 is about more than TV markets and a good football team. You need to have a top tier University in order to ever be considered for a P5 conference. I’m 20 years NDSU will be just as far away from the P5 as it is now! Who knows if they will even get a G5 invite in 20 years!

Everything you listed has improved at NDSU in the past 20 years, as an optimist I choose to believe that trajectory will continue. Time will tell I suppose.

Of course we are all speculating here. You choose to see a future that isn’t as favorable for your rival school, I choose to see a future where we move ever closer to the potential NDSU and the Fargo market has/will have.

There’s no right or wrong here. Is it unlikely, sure. But, again, many on this board and around the state mocked and ridiculed NDSU for ever dreaming they would have the success they’ve already had at the DI level. Guess we’ll just have to see how it plays out.

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2 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

Everything you listed has improved at NDSU in the past 20 years, as an optimist I choose to believe that trajectory will continue. Time will tell I suppose.

Of course we are all speculating here. You choose to see a future that isn’t as favorable for your rival school, I choose to see a future where we move ever closer to the potential NDSU and the Fargo market has/will have.

There’s no right or wrong here. Is it unlikely, sure. But, again, many on this board and around the state mocked and ridiculed NDSU for ever dreaming they would have the success they’ve already had at the DI level. Guess we’ll just have to see how it plays out.

It’s just hard to look at geography and see a clear path. In my mind it would’ve already happened. 

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