Who’s Next?

[fightingsioux4life]

49 minutes ago, zonadub said:

As someone who stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night...

Even though hockey is the cash cow of UND athletics, how much of their profits are shared with other teams? SDSU and USD basketball rules their winter program - and here is the Catch 22 of that... they have higher bb attendance, have more budget $ available for bb and so can pay their coaches more. This all leads to more wins which leads to higher attendance, more $...

This seems overly simplistic, but would UND's athletic budget without $600k going to hockey coaches plus airfare and lodging and training table and facilities have more $ available for football and basketball? Again, I understand that hockey lifts the boat, but (especially under the REA agreement as it stands) does it really lift all boats?

I understand this is not a popular view, but just want to pose the question.

Popular? No.

The right question to ask. Yes.

This idea that every program should support itself or dissolve must die.

[nodak651]

The hockey budget doesn't hinder the budget of other programs, because they make money.  The REA budget is what kills the non hockey sports.  Instead of using REA profits and investing in other programs/improving emberassing coaching salaries, an Iconic scoreboard is getting replaced.   What would 2 million dollars do for the football and basketball teams?  That is how much the REA's share of the new scoreboard cost, money that otherwise would flow back to UND.  Between these two options, where would the athletic department see a greater return on investment?  And just a reminder, the RAE operates as a non profit to benefit UND Athletics.

 

[zonadub]

17 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Popular? No.

The right question to ask. Yes.

This idea that every program should support itself or dissolve must die.

 

1 minute ago, nodak651 said:

The hockey budget doesn't hinder the budget of other programs, because they make money.  The REA budget is what kills the non hockey sports.  Instead of using REA profits and investing in other programs/improving emberassing coaching salaries, an Iconic scoreboard is getting replaced.   What would 2 million dollars do for the football and basketball teams?  That is how much the REA's share of the new scoreboard cost, money that otherwise would flow back to UND.  Between these two options, where would the athletic department see a greater return on investment?  And just a reminder, the RAE operates as a non profit to benefit UND Athletics.

 

Isn't t his what got MK into trouble with KEM... So not likely to change, is it?

[philjackson]

16 hours ago, FightingSiouxHawks said:

If you looking at the best candidate for the job that has had Head Coaching success! 

Coach Randall Herbst was the Head Coach for two years at Mary University. (maybe the toughest job in the league) 

In 14 seasons, U of Mary has only had 3 winning seasons.  2 by Coach Herbst before he was hired away by summit league rival UNO 

In just his second year, U of Mary went 23-6, 2nd in the NSC, and received the only NCAA postseason bid in school history!  

BTW went 2-0 vs Sather and 3-0 vs Walthall 

In 4 seasons at UWGB as Associate Head Coach,  GB gone to the NCAA tournament for the fist time in 20 yrs and finished 2nd in the CIT.  

 

 

To piggy back this post, I did a little research and those games that are in bold (The two coaches Sather and Walthall were 2-2 against each other those years).  Not to mention if you look back in the archives they had won 9, 8, and 7 games the previous 3 years. I see that their current AD is Dale Lennon longtime football coach at UND, and if I'm not mistaken the AD that hired Herbst was another former UND football coach Roger Thomas. That second year he was at UMary the team won something like 16 straight games if I counted correctly. Since his departure UMary has been 77-147 (.344).

Against Northern St. 

68-65 

75-47 (not a misprint) 

Against MSU-Moorhead 

72-57

73-66

70-65

 

[nodak651]

3 minutes ago, zonadub said:

 

Isn't t his what got MK into trouble with KEM... So not likely to change, is it?

No, but now she is going to open up her pocket book!  Actually NVM.  She said she wouldn't donate as long as he was president.  Also, what she didn't say, but thought, was that she still won't donate even after he leaves.

[UND Fan]

1 hour ago, Cratter said:

2018 Average Mens Basketball Attendance:

SDSU 2,292

UND 1,865

I thought your Jacks attendance must be low and found the below stats.  Not trying to point out that your numbers were wrong - I was more wrong, I would have thought they would be in the 4,000 range!

ATTENDANCE	Games	Total	Avg/ game
HOME	15	40718	2715
AWAY	13	53597	4123
NEUTRAL	5	4645	929
TOTAL	33	98960	2999

 

[Cratter]

4 minutes ago, UND Fan said:

I thought your Jacks attendance must be low and found the below stats.  Not trying to point out that your numbers were wrong - I was more wrong, I would have thought they would be in the 4,000 range.

I just used the most recent numbers from the NCAA website.

http://www.ncaa.org/championships/statistics/ncaa-mens-basketball-attendance

[jdub27]

42 minutes ago, nodak651 said:

Instead of using REA profits and investing in other programs/improving emberassing coaching salaries, an Iconic scoreboard is getting replaced.   What would 2 million dollars do for the football and basketball teams?  That is how much the REA's share of the new scoreboard cost, money that otherwise would flow back to UND.  Between these two options, where would the athletic department see a greater return on investment?  And just a reminder, the RAE operates as a non profit to benefit UND Athletics.

This is the catch-22 with the whole thing and the ownership of the REA possibly changing hands in a decade. 

The REA continues to be in amazing shape and has minimal deferred maintenance because they are able to put profits into a reserve fund before distributing the rest back to UND. It is important to keep the building as a premier facility across the college landscape.

It can be argued that there would definitely be a better ROI on some of those funds if they went back to UND and were invested into other programs but that also takes money away from the REA over the long term. The question/problem is the balancing act between keeping the REA up to world class standards and investing in other programs. I think its obvious at this point that scale has been tipped towards the REA, however the concern is if UND takes over the building, that tips too far the other way.

There is a definite advantage to holding the REA outside of UND ownership and my opinion is the overall the relationship needs to be repaired and move slightly towards other programs so they could hopefully defer the ownership change further out as a way to benefit all parties.

[UND Fan]

24 minutes ago, Cratter said:

I just used the most recent numbers from the NCAA website.

http://www.ncaa.org/championships/statistics/ncaa-mens-basketball-attendance

I got my numbers from the SDSU athletic website.  Not a big deal either way....

[SIOUXFAN97]

after reading the article on the heraldo...sounds like chaves already has his man...very specific qualifcations...

[SIOUXFAN97]

take the assistant to the und presidents job...she got 125k plus travel expenses to be a personal assistant...i know 10 people that could do that and they would do it for 65k (including myself) and the job would get done...maybe better or maybe worse (can't be that hard of a job)..

talk about moving money from hockey to the "other sports"....if erik fabian was offerend the hc of the hockey team and they offered 200k...would he take it...YES...would he do better than hak or bubba...maybe better or maybe worse but the basketball progam could be much better off by around 200k?

[Dustin]

1 hour ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

after reading the article on the heraldo...sounds like chaves already has his man...very specific qualifcations...

Any name(s) come to mind with that description?

[SIOUXFAN97]

1 minute ago, Dustin said:

Any name(s) come to mind with that description?

too lazy to do all the math involved but was hoping somone better at maths could figure it out for all of us!!

[ND-fan]

I have question with men's basketball program and the Betty the revenue generated there is there any return to the Men's basketball program. I look at how facilities get additional revenue hosting various events like the high school regionals, and now state basketball tournament. There has to be some profits generated there to be funneled back to basketball programs or is all that funneled through the agreement with Ralph and hockey. I also wonder now with change in conferences the travel expenses have to been reduced adding revenue for the programs. I guess another question is if hockey is generating positive cashflow why is it then other sports are so under funded compared to our other conference rivals. Is it because lack of fund raising or is not generating as much from these sports in control of facilities.  My other question is UND management structure top heavy consuming a lot of dollars that takes away from people actually running these programs. Also do the South Dakota schools get more money from their student fees than UND because they are not being split with Hockey program that has lot of student support. I guess my big question is why are we not able to compete with them and if so is revenue generated or are we spending more in administration and other expenses. I would like to see some facts and figures on this so we would know were behind and know what to improve upon. 

[SiouxVolley]

Many sports are funded in part by how much the alumni support it.  Athletics generates a lot of the buzz for giving.  At SDSU, mbb is the main driver.  At UND, mbb is well down the list.

Maine and UNH have similar fan expections and interest now, so they pay similarly.

The one thing SDSU can do is hire a P5 assistant, but those are much more likely to leave to a bigger program.

[UNDBIZ]

1 hour ago, ND-fan said:

I have question with men's basketball program and the Betty the revenue generated there is there any return to the Men's basketball program. I look at how facilities get additional revenue hosting various events like the high school regionals, and now state basketball tournament. There has to be some profits generated there to be funneled back to basketball programs or is all that funneled through the agreement with Ralph and hockey.

Revenue generated by the Betty/REA from outside activities is kept by the REA. It could make it's way to UND as part of the year-end allocation, but that's after the REA has taken 52% of ticket revenue, 100% of concessions, and historically around an extra $1 million or so from UND for miscellaneous.

[Shawn-O]

1 hour ago, Dustin said:

Any name(s) come to mind with that description?

I put my chips on Herbst, Boschee, and Walthall on the roulette board.  

[UNDBIZ]

Preference being given to a current head coach in the job listing, if it's written for a specific person, it would appear Herbst isn't the one. I thought his background looked pretty good. 

[philjackson]

2 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

Preference being given to a current head coach in the job listing, if it's written for a specific person, it would appear Herbst isn't the one. I thought his background looked pretty good. 

Sounds like you have the inside scoop on this one then  this should be an interesting one that has played out? Have Walthall or Boschee ever been employed by the university?

[Shawn-O]

10 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

Preference being given to a current head coach in the job listing, if it's written for a specific person, it would appear Herbst isn't the one. I thought his background looked pretty good. 

Looking at it again, the Boschee brothers are the only ones that check all the boxes.  But it wouldn't be the first time I've had a blind spot.   

[UNDBIZ]

13 minutes ago, philjackson said:

Sounds like you have the inside scoop on this one then  this should be an interesting one that has played out? Have Walthall or Boschee ever been employed by the university?

Nope, just read Tom's article on it. Perhaps Chaves doesn't have someone already picked though. I hope Herbst applies. 

https://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/basketball/4607615-und-posts-mens-basketball-job-prioritizes-local-ties#.XMuzsKKtq9Y.twitter

Quote

Another preferred qualification stated UND would like a current NCAA head coach.

[UofND-Alum]

Can someone copy in or post the job description 

[Cratter]

I'm liking Herbst from what I've read here.

[UNDBIZ]

6 minutes ago, UofND-Alum said:

Can someone copy in or post the job description 

https://www1.und.edu/finance-operations/human-resources-payroll/careers/secure/job-openings-external.cfm?category=2150+Athletics|Coaches

[UND Fan]

1 hour ago, UNDBIZ said:

Nope, just read Tom's article on it. Perhaps Chaves doesn't have someone already picked though. I hope Herbst applies. 

https://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/basketball/4607615-und-posts-mens-basketball-job-prioritizes-local-ties#.XMuzsKKtq9Y.twitter

If Randall hasn't done so, he is in the process of applying.  UND has been very pleased with the quantity and especially the quality of coaches who have expressed interest so far.....