UND to cut women's hockey

[Goon]

Just now, The Sicatoka said:

Schlossman would have been all over it if it was anywhere near truthy. Thus I find the rumor to be just that. 

I was wondering the same thing. 

[MafiaMan]

8 minutes ago, Goon said:

I heard a rumor from a friend that said a prominent UND alum offered UND 10 million for an endowment for women’s hockey and it was rejected by president Kennedy. Has anyone else heard this? 

I'll text @Oxbow6 and find out why Kennedy would turn down that kind of ka-ching!  

[Hayduke]

Just now, The Sicatoka said:

Hayduke, in my perfect world we’d only play sports that were revenue benign to UNDs budget.

But we can’t per the NCAA. We must play some revenue losers. 

And the Feds say you must meet Title IX.

So, you have to play and make budget and make Title IX. 

If you’re an expensive sport you’d better provide revenue to keep your cost and cost per participant down. 

Oh, I know.  I'm just pointing out that football is a loss leader for UND.  Yet, the cries about women's hockey losing money are the loudest here.  It seems that this needs to be pointed out. 

It also seems that we forget that ALL sports at UND lose money.  A little over half of students at UND are women.  Women's hockey is growing and getting bigger.  So, these young ladies have a legitimate beef against the school.  I hope they win.  I don't think they will, but they deserve to rattle Kennedy's cage.  

Nobody should try to deligitimize their complaints with blatantly mysogonist statements.  They have every right to complain.

 

 

[UND1983]

2 minutes ago, Hayduke said:

Oh, I know.  I'm just pointing out that football is a loss leader for UND.  Yet, the cries about women's hockey losing money are the loudest here.  It seems that this needs to be pointed out. 

It also seems that we forget that ALL sports at UND lose money.  A little over half of students at UND are women.  Women's hockey is growing and getting bigger.  So, these young ladies have a legitimate beef against the school.  I hope they win.  I don't think they will, but they deserve to rattle Kennedy's cage.  

Nobody should try to deligitimize their complaints with blatantly mysogonist statements.  They have every right to complain.

You're absolutely right, anybody can complain.

[MafiaMan]

2 minutes ago, Hayduke said:

Nobody should try to deligitimize their complaints with blatantly mysogonist statements. 

@petey23  it was only a matter of time, wasn't it?

[The Sicatoka]

Everyone has a complaint. 

I think they lack standing for anything more based on the OCR finding. 

 

PS - Compare cost per participant between FB and WIH. And you need participant numbers to balance. FB means VB and soccer and softball exist. Head count and cost per player equity. 

[The Sicatoka]

The US Office of Civil Rights said UND is meeting Title IX. 

Getting a ruling contrary would really throw every OCR ruling for a loop. Call me skeptical. 

[Rebel_Sioux]

Regardless as to the result of the case. I don't buy that there wasn't a way to save WIH without a massive endowment. You could have cut other sports (track, softball, tennis etc) and just WIH dramatically reduce their budgets. Idalski's contract was up, step one would be to hire a cheaper coach who focused on local recruits. 

 

Am I way off here or are there other factors I'm missing? 

 

 

[Hayduke]

15 minutes ago, MafiaMan said:

@petey23  it was only a matter of time, wasn't it?

Yes, it was about time somebody said it. 

 

[cberkas]

27 minutes ago, Goon said:

I heard a rumor from a friend that said a prominent UND alum offered UND 10 million for an endowment for women’s hockey and it was rejected by president Kennedy. Has anyone else heard this? 

Still need to bring in another sport with women's hockey. Would $10 Million cover that? Probably not.

[darell1976]

3 hours ago, Rebel_Sioux said:

Regardless as to the result of the case. I don't buy that there wasn't a way to save WIH without a massive endowment. You could have cut other sports (track, softball, tennis etc) and just WIH dramatically reduce their budgets. Idalski's contract was up, step one would be to hire a cheaper coach who focused on local recruits. 

 

Am I way off here or are there other factors I'm missing? 

 

 

By cutting those other sports wouldn’t we drop the minimum number of sports needed for DI? I believe we are at the minimum now. 

[Frozen4sioux]

Womens hockey has a big future. The numbers of girls participation and the growth poves that without doubt.  

For UND to be a part of that future it needs money.... from endowmmet not at the expense of others.

and better leadership from Coaching and administration, that doesnt have to cost more than before, can cost way way less it just has to have the proper focus for the sports time in history, local local local and proper expenditures... i.e. not recruiting all over eastern Europe, or eastern US for that matter.  

This lawsuit tho... yeah thats a waste of money and time.

[Siouxphan27]

7 hours ago, Hayduke said:

Oh, I know.  I'm just pointing out that football is a loss leader for UND.  Yet, the cries about women's hockey losing money are the loudest here.  It seems that this needs to be pointed out. 

It also seems that we forget that ALL sports at UND lose money.  A little over half of students at UND are women.  Women's hockey is growing and getting bigger.  So, these young ladies have a legitimate beef against the school.  I hope they win.  I don't think they will, but they deserve to rattle Kennedy's cage.  

Nobody should try to deligitimize their complaints with blatantly mysogonist statements.  They have every right to complain.

 

 

Football is not a loss leader when you consider donations, merchandise sales, and cost per athlete just to name a few. 

Why don't women support women's sports?   Isn't that the true hypocrisy?  

 

[siouxkid12]

12 hours ago, UNDBIZ said:

Can't believe Rice would be party to this. How many lawsuits can she handle at a single time? 

https://www.leagle.com/decision/infdco20170920d21

She has a lot of experience representing herself.
This girl has a lot of issues and she needs some professional help.

[UNDColorado]

9 hours ago, Hayduke said:

I agree. 

 

Time to cut football also then.  

 

Of course if you don't agree you realize you're a hypocrite

Aren't you the guy I tailgated with up in Wyoming? If I recall correctly we were all in pretty good spirits after our first FBS win. That win also motivated me to up my champions club donations going forward. I can't imagine I am the only one. What happened?

[geaux_sioux]

I’m pretty sure we’d be better off adding a roller derby team. People actually attend that event.

[Siouxperfan7]

Let's just say by some miracle that they actually win the lawsuit against the NDUS.  Does the NDUS have the authority to tell UND what programs their athletic teams can and cannot sponsor?  

[Hayduke]

1 hour ago, UNDColorado said:

Aren't you the guy I tailgated with up in Wyoming? If I recall correctly we were all in pretty good spirits after our first FBS win. That win also motivated me to up my champions club donations going forward. I can't imagine I am the only one. What happened?

I don't want to get rid of football. My point is that football does lose a lot of money every year for UND.

With that in mind what is the real reason that women's hockey was cut?

And yes we did tailgate and we had a great time. Although I have to admit Pokes football is lot more fun to go to now than it was that year. LOL

[HawksHoops]

22 minutes ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

Let's just say by some miracle that they actually win the lawsuit against the NDUS.  Does the NDUS have the authority to tell UND what programs their athletic teams can and cannot sponsor?  

IMO this is the most short-sighted part of filing this lawsuit.  The only way that women's hockey is returning to UND is if UND decided to reinstate it.  As has been mentioned several times, Title IX does not require that specific sports be offered.  So in the event that NDUS (UND) lost the case, which they won't since they are Title IX compliant, there is no mechanism for a court to require that women's hockey be reinstated.  If a school is found to be non-compliant with Title IX, they can just make adjustments to funding and resources of current sports. 

If any lawyers on the board see it differently, I would be very interested in your opinions.

[tnt]

21 minutes ago, Hayduke said:

I don't want to get rid of football. My point is that football does lose a lot of money every year for UND.

With that in mind what is the real reason that women's hockey was cut?

And yes we did tailgate and we had a great time. Although I have to admit Pokes football is lot more fun to go to now than it was that year. LOL

What is the main reason baseball was cut?  

[tnt]

3 minutes ago, HawksHoops said:

IMO this is the most short-sighted part of filing this lawsuit.  The only way that women's hockey is returning to UND is if UND decided to reinstate it.  As has been mentioned several times, Title IX does not require that specific sports be offered.  So in the event that NDUS (UND) lost the case, which they won't since they are Title IX compliant, there is no mechanism for a court to require that women's hockey be reinstated.  If a school is found to be non-compliant with Title IX, they can just make adjustments to funding and resources of current sports. 

If any lawyers on the board see it differently, I would be very interested in your opinions.

Can NDUS file a countersuit saying this lawsuit is frivolous since UND has already been found to be Title IX compiant?  Seems to me that these athletes just want to hurt UND for dropping the program, knowing they probably won't win.   Some of them shouldn't have had scholarships to begin with, but that is another story. 

 

[HawksHoops]

19 minutes ago, Hayduke said:

I don't want to get rid of football. My point is that football does lose a lot of money every year for UND.

With that in mind what is the real reason that women's hockey was cut?

And yes we did tailgate and we had a great time. Although I have to admit Pokes football is lot more fun to go to now than it was that year. LOL

Hayduke, I appreciate your passion for hockey and willingness to play devil's advocate for the sake of discussion, but this answer has been stated several times.  I'm sure we could have a good-natured debate about some of these and which apply to football, but here is the list as I see it.

1.  Nearly $2 Million deficit per year

2.  High cost per athlete ($80,000 per year/per athlete)

3.  Extremely low attendance

4.  Minimal public interest

5.  Minimal Champion's Club related donations

6.  Minimal merchandise revenue

7.  Minimal TV exposure

8.  Average on-ice results (Poor championship level results)

9.  Limited local recruits

10.  Low future growth potential

[Siouxphan27]

5 minutes ago, tnt said:

What is the main reason baseball was cut?  

Penises. 

[tnt]

1 minute ago, HawksHoops said:

Hayduke, I appreciate your passion for hockey and willingness to play devil's advocate for the sake of discussion, but this answer has been stated several times.  I'm sure we could have a good-natured debate about some of these and which apply to football, but here is the list as I see it.

1.  Nearly $2 Million deficit per year

2.  High cost per athlete ($80,000 per year/per athlete)

3.  Extremely low attendance

4.  Minimal public interest

5.  Minimal Champion's Club related donations

6.  Minimal merchandise revenue

7.  Minimal TV exposure

8.  Average on-ice results (Poor championship level results)

9.  Limited local recruits

10.  Low future growth potential

That all you got!  

[HawksHoops]

1 minute ago, tnt said:

Can NDUS file a countersuit saying this lawsuit is frivolous since UND has already been found to be Title IX compiant?  Seems to me that these athletes just want to hurt UND for dropping the program, knowing they probably won't win.   Some of them shouldn't have had scholarships to begin with, but that is another story. 

 

I would think that NDUS could certainly counter for attorney fees, which could get high if this goes to court.  I'm wondering if non-students even have standing to bring the case and maybe that's why NDUS was targeted.  Seems like this case will be tossed by a judge before it goes very far.