Coach Jones?

[Cratter]

7 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

my bad. Coaches either get fired or extended with 1 year remaining on contract. 

We've been told UND can't afford to pay to fire a coach with one year remaining. That only leaves extensions...which means Jones will be here as long as he wants, regardless of performance.

[ArtVandalay]

41 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

Why do you feel its a given he will be extended?

The reasons have been detailed ad nauseom (sp?). Some refuse to listen. You don't whack a coach that has finished in the top 5 of the conference for 3 out of 4 years. Not to mention the positive trajectory program seems to be on. 

[UND1983]

44 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

The reasons have been detailed ad nauseom (sp?). Some refuse to listen. You don't whack a coach that has finished in the top 5 of the conference for 3 out of 4 years. Not to mention the positive trajectory program seems to be on. 

If those are the reasons then I am less than thrilled about the commitment to basketball that UND has.  

His yearly records would certainly allow for a debate on how much of an "positive trajectory" this program is taking.

Maybe it's the reality of where UND is at on the athletic department chart of importance.  15-16 wins is the goal every year.

[UND1983]

I am actually torn on this subject.  Reasons being:

1.  The entire roster is coming back, essentially.  

2.  From what I read, W. Baker is the best or second best player on this roster and he is eligible next year.

Due to the above two factors, Jones should get a chance to coach the best roster UND has had in D1 era.  His record is still below average but UND should be in the 18-20 win range next year.

Here is the rub:  to allow Jones to coach next year means Faison extends him in next few weeks.  So Jones gets at least two more years.  IF next years team flops and fails to make conf. championship game or tourney, UND is stuck with him for another year after that, more than likely another year of mediocrity since it cannot buyout two years.

All the eggs are in the 2017 basket, IMO.  

[UNDBIZ]

Could do a 1 year extension. Buy out if the team doesn't get 20 wins and into the championship game next year. 

[homer]

I think Jones earned another year. I'd be for bringing him back with the expectations laid out.  

[UND1983]

13 minutes ago, homer said:

I think Jones earned another year. I'd be for bringing him back with the expectations laid out.  

Problem is those expectations were already laid out after last year as a form of a mild ultimatum.

Like I said I am torn on this because he did put the roster together and they are going to be better next year.

[bincitysioux]

As someone who has been very critical of Jones the last few seasons, I give him a ton credit for this season.  Given how far into the ground he ran this program last season, the turnaround this year is quite remarkable.  

The problem is, I still feel that a season like this one is pretty much the ceiling under Jones.  It would be quite difficult to fire him considering how the team performed this year.  But I also don't feel this year's efforts warrants an extension.  I would like to see Faison make him play out the final year of his contract and see how next season goes.  IMO, UND has already been extremely patient with him during his time here.  There is not a single other DI school that is going to offer him a head coaching position.  Show more improvement next year and earn a long term extension. 

[UND1983]

After looking at the Big Sky format change, Jones really didn't do anything that he hadn't done before.  He won a preliminary and a quarterfinal game this year...before he won a quarterfinal and a semi final game against two mid to bottom level teams. So essentially no different than his best year.   He lost to Weber State both years.

[Oxbow6]

41 minutes ago, homer said:

I think Jones earned another year. I'd be for bringing him back with the expectations laid out.  

We seem to say this after the season has ended year after year..."Wait until next year".

Wash...rinse...repeat.

[MafiaMan]

17 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

We seem to say this after the season has ended year after year..."Wait until next year".

Wash...rinse...repeat.

NDSU changes coaches and wins a conference playoff title last season and was a hair away from repeating that feat again this season (as a five-seed in the tournament, no less).  UND makes its tournament semi-finals and out come the calls of congratulations from the board.  

[UND-FB-FAN]

Jones deserves an opportunity to coach UND's roster next year, but there shouldn't be an extension. There's too much uncertainty with Jones' ability to coach against non-Big Sky teams and the top Big Sky teams (Weber State and Montana), and his overall record since joining the Big Sky Conference is below 0.500; let him coach 2016-2017 but with no extension. Make him earn the darn thing, plus the athletic department doesn't have the money nor the affinity to Jones to just hand him a nice contract extension. I honestly think Faison has learned from his previous contract extensions, which were mistimed in the case of Mussman and Jones. 

[zonadub]

Is it enough to get to the semifinals and lose? The Big Sky is not a good BB conference, so UND under Jones seems to be able to do that against the generally 'average' middle of the pack and lower Sky teams. On the other hand Weber and Montana are "above average" and Jones cannot seem to solve that riddle. imho UND will never get to The Dance under Jones. Is that the level that satisfies UND in DI?

Can he come up with and implement schemes that win important games?

[Siouxphan27]

This is what can happen when you don't make a change when it's needed.  i.e. 2 years ago.  

Jones took the most naturally talented group in school history and allowed them to be the most undisciplined, disappointing team in school history.

but now he's two years in to somewhat of a fresh start with players that came to UND  with the mindset of playing hard in all aspects of the game, and playing as a team.  (They didn't learn that here).  

UND basketball is fun to watch again.  

Jones will continue to fail at end of game decisions, but with mediocrity as the standard, Faison will most likely extend his contract.

#hailJones

 

 

 

[ArtVandalay]

7 minutes ago, Siouxphan27 said:

This is what can happen when you don't make a change when it's needed.  i.e. 2 years ago.  

Jones took the most naturally talented group in school history and allowed them to be the most undisciplined, disappointing team in school history.

but now he's two years in to somewhat of a fresh start with players that came to UND  with the mindset of playing hard in all aspects of the game, and playing as a team.  (They didn't learn that here).  

UND basketball is fun to watch again.  

Jones will continue to fail at end of game decisions, but with mediocrity as the standard, Faison will most likely extend his contract.

#hailJones

 

 

 

Why does everyone assume that team was so talented?   Other than Huff, who couldn't guard me, who was so talented?  What other d1 offers were on the table for this group?

[UND1983]

7 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

Why does everyone assume that team was so talented?   Other than Huff, who couldn't guard me, who was so talented?  What other d1 offers were on the table for this group?

Therefore, he overachieved that season.  Which means he underachieved this season with all this real D1 talent. Correct?

[nd1sufan]

23 minutes ago, Siouxphan27 said:

This is what can happen when you don't make a change when it's needed.  i.e. 2 years ago.  

Jones took the most naturally talented group in school history and allowed them to be the most undisciplined, disappointing team in school history.

but now he's two years in to somewhat of a fresh start with players that came to UND  with the mindset of playing hard in all aspects of the game, and playing as a team.  (They didn't learn that here).  

UND basketball is fun to watch again.  

Jones will continue to fail at end of game decisions, but with mediocrity as the standard, Faison will most likely extend his contract.

#hailJones

 

 

 

Faison has FCOA and continued high travel costs to worry about. He knows he can't find a competent HC for $100,000 a year. As long as Jones has a respectable record (around .500) he will keep him. My guess is he is saving at least $200,000 a year with the salary total of his Mens BB staff compared to other D1 staffs in the region. He would have to come up with that difference with a new staff. He won't do it unless he is forced to. 

[Siouxphan27]

12 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

Why does everyone assume that team was so talented?   Other than Huff, who couldn't guard me, who was so talented?  What other d1 offers were on the table for this group?

I'm pretty sure Troy Huff could shut a latex salesman like yourself down when he wanted to.  

He showed flashes of playing great defense, followed by long stretches of sandbagging.  just like most of the team did those years. 

They had to be talented, as they finished around .500 every year while refusing to play as a team and refusing to box out.   That is my long lasting memory of that group; "box the f___ out!!!!"

 

[ArtVandalay]

18 minutes ago, Siouxphan27 said:

I'm pretty sure Troy Huff could shut a latex salesman like yourself down when he wanted to.  

He showed flashes of playing great defense, followed by long stretches of sandbagging.  just like most of the team did those years. 

They had to be talented, as they finished around .500 every year while refusing to play as a team and refusing to box out.   That is my long lasting memory of that group; "box the f___ out!!!!"

 

Solid effort. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

40 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

Why does everyone assume that team was so talented?   Other than Huff, who couldn't guard me, who was so talented?  What other d1 offers were on the table for this group?

Talent is only part of the issue (nevertheless, Jones is the one who recruited that 'talent'). Some of the best college basketball teams in recent years, such as Bo Ryan's Wisconsin teams, were not filled with talent but rather played together as a team and played fundamental defense. Saul Phillips - who came from that same Bo Ryan coaching tree - implemented fundamental, disciplined basketball at NDSU and look at the results they had (big wins [Wisconsin, Notre Dame], 2x NCAA tournament appearances, win vs. Oklahoma in NCAA tournament, etc.). 

UND needs someone who is more fundamentally-sound in terms of coaching. That is not Jones. Jones does not scream discipline; in fact, he could use some discipline himself with his embarrassing sideline antics. At UND's level of football and basketball, coaches need to be able to DEVELOP TALENT, because UND is not going to get top talent. Those midwest players go to Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Iowa State, etc. Instead, you need kids who have moderate to above average talent with GREAT WORK-ETHIC and then you mold those kids into winners which can eventually overcome those aforementioned BIG 10 recruits. Jones doesn't appear to be able to do that. He hasn't showed it yet, because everyone who has supported Jones defends him with the deficient talent argument; however, that is counter-intuitive when it comes to low-major DI basketball here at UND. 

The budget situation is certainly unfortunate, and for that reason, Jones will get to coach for UND during the 2016-2017 campaign; however, I do not think he should be given a blind extension. Let him earn that extension next season with all that 'talent' he will have. In fact, I'm more interested in how this team DEVELOPS or doesn't develop over the off-season; the status quo should not be acceptable. Many players this season were freshmen playing their first season of college basketball - those players SHOULD improve if provided the proper teaching.  

[Risky]

The top end teams in the Big Sky are very good teams.    I have been critical of Jones a lot too but I  think the job he did with this team from the beginning of the season to now at the end is commendable.  He definitely deserves to stay for now.

[fightingsioux4life]

41 minutes ago, nd1sufan said:

Faison has FCOA and continued high travel costs to worry about. He knows he can't find a competent HC for $100,000 a year. As long as Jones has a respectable record (around .500) he will keep him. My guess is he is saving at least $200,000 a year with the salary total of his Mens BB staff compared to other D1 staffs in the region. He would have to come up with that difference with a new staff. He won't do it unless he is forced to. 

Here are back at the notion that UND is flat broke and can't afford to do anything about anything. Meanwhile, NDSU advertises all over creation (okay, the upper Midwest, but you get the point) and has to deal with the same budgetary issues that all NDUS schools have to deal with.

Let Jones come back next season, but for heaven's sake, do NOT give him a big, fat extension. He hasn't earned it. Unless you think CIT berths are the benchmark of a low-major Division I basketball program.

[Irish]

2 hours ago, MafiaMan said:

NDSU changes coaches and wins a conference playoff title last season and was a hair away from repeating that feat again this season (as a five-seed in the tournament, no less).  UND makes its tournament semi-finals and out come the calls of congratulations from the board.  

UND and its fans have an incredible tolerance for mediocrity for everything but Mens Hockey.  Think of where the football program would be, for example, if Muss was canned after the Sioux Falls fiasco.  Jones has had 10 years to show us what he can do.  How much longer should we wait?

[dakotadan]

20 minutes ago, Irish said:

UND and its fans have an incredible tolerance for mediocrity for everything but Mens Hockey.  Think of where the football program would be, for example, if Muss was canned after the Sioux Falls fiasco.  Jones has had 10 years to show us what he can do.  How much longer should we wait?

#BrickByBrick 

#DecadeByDecade 

[ArtVandalay]

Someone in this thread may have asked the cost to host CIT game. 40 grand.