jdub27 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 5 minutes ago, Herd said: I think cutting DI hockey scholarships in half would be a good idea, and would have no impact on the sport. So in your mind, 18 cut to 9 is equal to 45 cut to 36....? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geaux_sioux Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 8 minutes ago, jdub27 said: So in your mind, 18 cut to 9 is equal to 45 cut to 36....? He's pertty gerd ert merth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herd Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 7 minutes ago, jdub27 said: So in your mind, 18 cut to 9 is equal to 45 cut to 36....? Just an example of how reductions make an impact, that I assumed even you could understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bang Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 19 minutes ago, Herd said: I think cutting DI hockey scholarships in half would be a good idea, and would have no impact on the sport. Our tradition and facilities would still produce a top 5 D-1 hockey team every year. That would not change. What it might do is drive down the talent pool in college hockey and force some talent that would play college hockey either go pro or major junior. In college football players don't have that option to play elsewhere. Not sure what you're getting at. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 28 minutes ago, bang said: Our tradition and facilities would still produce a top 5 D-1 hockey team every year. That would not change. What it might do is drive down the talent pool in college hockey and force some talent that would play college hockey either go pro or major junior. In college football players don't have that option to play elsewhere. Not sure what you're getting at. Maybe UND would still be top 5, maybe not. When you change the rules of a game, some people adapt to those rule changes faster than others. UND has mastered college hockey under it's current format, if things were to change they would have to adapt to those changes. Maybe another team would take advantage of that faster than UND, maybe not. Hard to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 7 minutes ago, Bison06 said: Maybe UND would still be top 5, maybe not. When you change the rules of a game, some people adapt to those rule changes faster than others. UND has mastered college hockey under it's current format, if things were to change they would have to adapt to those changes. Maybe another team would take advantage of that faster than UND, maybe not. Hard to say. You're right, just hypotheticals. The only thing we can be sure of is that NDSU struggled to adapt and maintain previous level's of success when they didn't have a scholarship advantage over other schools in Division 2. Glad we cleared that up. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 16 minutes ago, jdub27 said: You're right, just hypotheticals. The only thing we can be sure of is that NDSU struggled to adapt and maintain previous level's of success when they didn't have a scholarship advantage over other schools in Division 2. Glad we cleared that up. NDSU turned out just fine I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Just now, Bison06 said: NDSU turned out just fine I think. Did I say they didn't? They have done a spectacular job at the FCS level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 3 minutes ago, jdub27 said: Did I say they didn't? They have done a spectacular job at the FCS level. Even in D2 they were fine. I think that's what always gets lost in this conversation. NDSU in the 90's was very successful. Just not by their previous standards. The difference between winning and losing is at times minuscule. The scholarship change among other factors just shifted them to the other side of that very thin line between winning and losing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 1 hour ago, Herd said: I think cutting DI hockey scholarships in half would be a good idea, and would have no impact on the sport. I think they should cut it to 0. Watch UND really rise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bang Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 11 minutes ago, Bison06 said: Maybe UND would still be top 5, maybe not. When you change the rules of a game, some people adapt to those rule changes faster than others. UND has mastered college hockey under it's current format, if things were to change they would have to adapt to those changes. Maybe another team would take advantage of that faster than UND, maybe not. Hard to say. The way I look at it is recruiting and graduation forces change every year. There is probably a different amount of scholarships to give out every year. The variables involved in scholarship distribution is part of what makes a coaching staff good recruiters. Talent evaluation is just part of it. A big part of it is scholarship management. If you guys haven't seen watch the second 30 for 30 on the U. It has a big segment about what Butch Davis did to overcome all the scholarship reductions at the school after NCAA sanctions were set against them. It was great. He didn't sit around and whine about what he had to work with. He got creative and managed the scholarships allotted to him. Rocky failed to recreate dream teams when put on a level field. He was forced to become a all around recruiter and became slightly above average as a result. Since then Bohl came in and showed everybody how to win when at a disadvantage (probation period). Like I said earlier. I'd love to see Rocky comeback. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 1 hour ago, Bison06 said: Even in D2 they were fine. I think that's what always gets lost in this conversation. NDSU in the 90's was very successful. Just not by their previous standards. The difference between winning and losing is at times minuscule. The scholarship change among other factors just shifted them to the other side of that very thin line between winning and losing. Really? No playoff games at all in the Fargodome successful? Okay. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnboyND7 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 30 minutes ago, darell1976 said: Really? No playoff games at all in the Fargodome successful? Okay. 6 trips to the playoffs and a national championship...aka, pretty similar to the best decade in UND history. A down decade/season for one team can be the season of a lifetime for another. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 15 minutes ago, darell1976 said: Really? No playoff games at all in the Fargodome successful? Okay. NDSU football 1990-1999 Overall record of 88-27(76% winning percentage) 1 National championship 4 conference championships 6 Playoff appearances, which includes 3 national quarterfinal appearances not counting the national championship year Finished in the top 20 in the DII polls 6 of the 10 years UND football 1990-1999 Overall record of 73-27-1(72% winning percentage) No national championships 4 conference championships 6 Playoff appearances, including 2 national semifinal appearances So...yeah I feel pretty confident in saying that NDSU in the 1990's was pretty damn successful. Just not in comparison to the insane amount of dominance they showed in the 80's. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxperfan7 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 8 minutes ago, Bison06 said: NDSU football 1990-1999 Overall record of 88-27(76% winning percentage) 1 National championship 4 conference championships 6 Playoff appearances, which includes 3 national quarterfinal appearances not counting the national championship year Finished in the top 20 in the DII polls 6 of the 10 years UND football 1990-1999 Overall record of 73-27-1(72% winning percentage) No national championships 4 conference championships 6 Playoff appearances, including 2 national semifinal appearances So...yeah I feel pretty confident in saying that NDSU in the 1990's was pretty damn successful. Just not in comparison to the insane amount of dominance they showed in the 80's. Head to head record in the 90's - UND 6 wins, NDSU 5 wins. Because that is the stat that really matters!!! #nickelgamesmatter 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 5 minutes ago, Siouxperfan7 said: Head to head record in the 90's - UND 6 wins, NDSU 5 wins. Because that is the stat that really matters!!! #nickelgamesmatter You definitely have us there. You noticed that I left that little detail out huh? Somehow the head to head completely slipped my mind to type in my post. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 1 hour ago, Bison06 said: NDSU football 1990-1999 Overall record of 88-27(76% winning percentage) 1 National championship 4 conference championships 6 Playoff appearances, which includes 3 national quarterfinal appearances not counting the national championship year Finished in the top 20 in the DII polls 6 of the 10 years UND football 1990-1999 Overall record of 73-27-1(72% winning percentage) No national championships 4 conference championships 6 Playoff appearances, including 2 national semifinal appearances So...yeah I feel pretty confident in saying that NDSU in the 1990's was pretty damn successful. Just not in comparison to the insane amount of dominance they showed in the 80's. NDSU hosted 5 playoff games all at Dacotah Field, and except for 1990 they didn't have a 0 or 1 loss season from 1991-2005 compared to 4 of them from 1982-1988. Just like in previous decades they rise and fall rise and fall. Usually NDSU's rise is UND's fall, and vice versa. Its a little complicated now with both teams rising as we are in different conferences. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 18 minutes ago, darell1976 said: NDSU hosted 5 playoff games all at Dacotah Field, and except for 1990 they didn't have a 0 or 1 loss season from 1991-2005 compared to 4 of them from 1982-1988. Just like in previous decades they rise and fall rise and fall. Usually NDSU's rise is UND's fall, and vice versa. Its a little complicated now with both teams rising as we are in different conferences. I'm not sure what you're getting at darell. We're agreeing that the 90's weren't as dominant as the 80's. But you make it sound like the 90's are some sort of dark age in NDSU football. There are very, very few college programs that would look at a decade stretch like what NDSU had from 90-99 and not call that a very successful decade. ln fact, UND fans see the 90's as their rise to glory and as the above numbers show, they had nearly identical decades in terms of success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 25 minutes ago, Bison06 said: I'm not sure what you're getting at darell. We're agreeing that the 90's weren't as dominant as the 80's. But you make it sound like the 90's are some sort of dark age in NDSU football. There are very, very few college programs that would look at a decade stretch like what NDSU had from 90-99 and not call that a very successful decade. ln fact, UND fans see the 90's as their rise to glory and as the above numbers show, they had nearly identical decades in terms of success. The 80's showed NDSU's dominance and UND knocking on the basement door with Morningside, the 90's showed how UND rose and how NDSU fell. You didn't fall as hard as UND did in 81-92, but you fell out of national title appearances, undefeated seasons and starting in 93 you fell out of home playoff games. UND capped off their rise in 01 and 03 with NC appearances and a title. Your rise to fame didn't come until you bolted, and now UND is rising again, so now both ND teams are hosting playoff games, who is going to fall back to earth and who is going to stay up in the clouds? We shall see. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardcore Hawk Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 32 minutes ago, darell1976 said: The 80's showed NDSU's dominance and UND knocking on the basement door with Morningside, the 90's showed how UND rose and how NDSU fell. You didn't fall as hard as UND did in 81-92, but you fell out of national title appearances, undefeated seasons and starting in 93 you fell out of home playoff games. UND capped off their rise in 01 and 03 with NC appearances and a title. Your rise to fame didn't come until you bolted, and now UND is rising again, so now both ND teams are hosting playoff games, who is going to fall back to earth and who is going to stay up in the clouds? We shall see. Does a team have to fall back to earth? Since the two are not in the same conference, I don't think the success of one and the lack of success of the other is as intertwined as it used to be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas rancher Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 27 minutes ago, Hardcore Hawk said: Does a team have to fall back to earth? Since the two are not in the same conference, I don't think the success of one and the lack of success of the other is as intertwined as it used to be Leave him alone on his little island of make believe, he is obviously very happy there. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxperman8 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 1 hour ago, darell1976 said: The 80's showed NDSU's dominance and UND knocking on the basement door with Morningside, the 90's showed how UND rose and how NDSU fell. You didn't fall as hard as UND did in 81-92, but you fell out of national title appearances, undefeated seasons and starting in 93 you fell out of home playoff games. UND capped off their rise in 01 and 03 with NC appearances and a title. Your rise to fame didn't come until you bolted, and now UND is rising again, so now both ND teams are hosting playoff games, who is going to fall back to earth and who is going to stay up in the clouds? We shall see. Not really fair to say that UND was a bottom dweller 81-84. We didn't fall off the map until 85. Records in the early 80's weren't terrible and a couple of 3 loss seasons: 1980 - 6-4 1981 - 6-4 1982 - 7-3 1983 - 6-5 1984 - 8-3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 9 hours ago, Texas rancher said: Leave him alone on his little island of make believe, he is obviously very happy there. What's make believe about what I said? You worried NDSU will go into a title funk with UND starting to get into the playoffs? History loves repeating itself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 9 hours ago, Hardcore Hawk said: Does a team have to fall back to earth? Since the two are not in the same conference, I don't think the success of one and the lack of success of the other is as intertwined as it used to be Fall back to earth just meaning back with the pack like NDSU did from the 80's to the 90's. Now they lost in the playoffs at home will that continue or will they be in Frisco next season. The different conferences is a twist in this part of history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 9 hours ago, Siouxperman8 said: Not really fair to say that UND was a bottom dweller 81-84. We didn't fall off the map until 85. Records in the early 80's weren't terrible and a couple of 3 loss seasons: 1980 - 6-4 1981 - 6-4 1982 - 7-3 1983 - 6-5 1984 - 8-3 We were good til the fallout of Behrns and the start of the Thomas era. Those seasons were rough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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