fightingsioux4life Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Caveat: I have absolutely nothing against fan criticism of UND players, coaches or teams. I personally don't believe it helps a program in the least, nor does it keep a program from settling for mediocrity any more than I believe a more positive pie-in-the-sky (or the favored term here, "delusional") outlook is a bullet-train ticket to permanent stagnation. Bottom line: what we write here or what the media writes anywhere has very little bearing on the direction of the program. The real pressures are applied from much closer distance and from much more powerful strings ( no, not the %gobc) than a fan message board. Ok, that said: If Tom were to consistently write in a negative, glass-half empty way about UND teams the way some on here bag on UND teams when they're struggling, he'd be quickly labeled as another UND-hating, Bison-loving, McFooly-cloned media hack. Not that he'd care in the least. I have seen Tom write some pretty downright negative stuff about the UND program on occasion. But I also like that he balances things out with some fact-based and numbers-based positivity now and again. I want to read about the good and the bad. Tom and Wayne do a nice job walking that tightrope. Not even The Strib and PiPress sports columnists (opinion writers who are not dependent on access to players and/or coaches, mind you) write scathing, hatchet jobs all of the time. I am not sure what articles you are reading, but both Miller and Nelson are sugar-coaters when it comes to UND athletics. I think Schlossman is much more objective in his reporting (yes, I have warmed up to Brad in recent years!). I never have said that the Herald sports team should trash anybody or write "scathing, hatchet jobs all of the time". But over the years, I have seen way too much sugar-coating of our teams when it is absolutely not warranted. For that matter, I have seen way too much of that on this forum and in our fan base (especially over the last 15 years or so). What Miller wrote today was basically trying to convince us that being competitive in a game on the road is somehow a step forward in the right direction. That is the definition of a "moral victory" and we've accumulated more than enough of those to last a lifetime. At some point, we need to get a "signature win" over a program like Marquette or Wisconsin or Minnesota. That will get us a lot of positive press and exposure and possibly make a difference with recruiting. What happened vs. Marquette does not qualify. And btw, Tom Powers of the Pioneer Press is one of the worst hatchet men in the Twin Cities media (he rips Teddy Bridgewater in almost every Vikings-related article). I certainly don't want that in the local press, but I also don't want the "everything is fine the way it is" sugar-coating that I have seen in the Herald over the years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWSiouxMN Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Honestly, MSU is in rough shape too. I expect to win there on Thursday. We cant beat them it might be a long time before our 1st conference win. However, if get our crap together we could get off to a hot start. The games are winnable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMSioux Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 I guess we can all read something into articles based on our mindset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choyt3 Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 There are no for sure winnable road games in the BSC, did he forget the loss last year to 1 win SUU? Do you know what "winnable" means? I see it as a game they could be able to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 If UND beat Marquette you can be sure plenty of people would have said it wouldn't have been a "signature win". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Do you know what "winnable" means? I see it as a game they could be able to win. Yes I know what winnable means it's something this team somehow can't do much of on the road especially against lesser teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 If UND beat Marquette you can be sure plenty of people would have said it wouldn't have been a "signature win". I think it would be a signature win, it's on the road against a team in a tough conference. What is our signature win up to now? NDSU last year? USD buzzer beater for the GWC Championship? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWSiouxMN Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 So does anyone know if Stefan will be back or not? Is the MSU game the tell tale sign that he will be back or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I am not sure what articles you are reading, but both Miller and Nelson are sugar-coaters when it comes to UND athletics. I guess everyone sees what they want. I think Miller is very consistent about pointing about the good along with the bad in his articles. He's had more than a few that carried sharp criticism. I don't think that pointing out positives and improvements is sugarcoating, but to each his own. There were significant improvements in the Marquette game, particularly coming off the heels of the Minnesota and NDSU games. If you can't see that, its because you don't want to. Don't get me wrong, this team still has a long way to go and need to play better than they did against Marquette and play a full game instead of 30 minutes. But it looked to be a step in the right direction. Time will tell. There are no for sure winnable road games in the BSC, did he forget the loss last year to 1 win SUU? Not sure what you're talking about. I'm quite certain every road conference game UND will play this year is winnable. Yes I know what winnable means it's something this team somehow can't do much of on the road especially against lesser teams. The same UND team that has one of the top road records in the Big Sky since it joined two years ago? Pretty sure they are .500 on the road in that time span. I'd be more than thrilled if they accomplish that again this year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I guess everyone sees what they want. I think Miller is very consistent about pointing about the good along with the bad in his articles. He's had more than a few that carried very sharp criticism as well. I don't think that pointing out positives is sugarcoating anything. There were significant improvements in the Marquette game, particularly coming off the heels of the Minnesota and NDSU games. If you can't see that, its because you just don't want to. Not sure what you're talking about. I'm quite certain every road conference game UND will play this year is winnable. The same UND team that has one of the top road records in the Big Sky since it joined two years ago? Pretty sure they are .500 on the road in that time span. I'd be more than thrilled if they accomplish that again this year. UND's road conference record 2012-13 6-4 (ranked 3rd) 2013-14 4-6 (tied for 3rd) If 5 wins leads a conference on the road that means winning on the road is not a sure thing. Jones can't win OOC games on the road, so winning at a BSC school is a very tall order for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 UND's road conference record 2012-13 6-4 (ranked 3rd) 2013-14 4-6 (tied for 3rd) If 5 wins leads a conference on the road that means winning on the road is not a sure thing. Jones can't win OOC games on the road, so winning at a BSC school is a very tall order for him. Winning anywhere isn't a sure thing, that doesn't mean the games are aren't winnable (which is what you claim). Not sure what winning OOC road games (which Jones' teams have struggled with) has to do with winning road conference games (which Jones' teams have done at a 50% clip the last two years, a rate that only two other teams in the conference have topped in that time span). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Winning anywhere isn't a sure thing, that doesn't mean the games are aren't winnable (which is what you claim). Not sure what winning OOC road games (which Jones' teams have struggled with) has to do with winning road conference games (which Jones' teams have done at a 50% clip the last two years, a rate that only two other teams in the conference have topped in that time span). If Jones can't get his guys to win on the road in the first couple months of the season, its difficult to win it during conference play the rest of the season. I know you only like to look at conference play and only conference play, but both OOC and conference games feed off each other. You need to win on the road to be successful, name the last team to go to the dance with a losing road record. Yes Jones is 10-10 in road conference play but 11-26 overall (including this season) on the road since joining the Big Sky isn't something to be proud of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmksioux Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 If Jones can't get his guys to win on the road in the first couple months of the season, its difficult to win it during conference play the rest of the season. I know you only like to look at conference play and only conference play, but both OOC and conference games feed off each other. You need to win on the road to be successful, name the last team to go to the dance with a losing road record. Yes Jones is 10-10 in road conference play but 11-26 overall (including this season) on the road since joining the Big Sky isn't something to be proud of. Well, since you asked...the answer is Liberty. It's actually happened five times since 2002.http://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2013/3/11/4088244/liberty-worst-ncaa-tournament-team 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandalay Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 If Jones can't get his guys to win on the road in the first couple months of the season, its difficult to win it during conference play the rest of the season. I know you only like to look at conference play and only conference play, but both OOC and conference games feed off each other. You need to win on the road to be successful, name the last team to go to the dance with a losing road record. Yes Jones is 10-10 in road conference play but 11-26 overall (including this season) on the road since joining the Big Sky isn't something to be proud of. I know you like to look at non conference play and non conference play only. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I know you like to look at non conference play and conference play only. This is true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nd1sufan Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 So what are the first impressions of Shanks? I know it is a small one or two game sample size, but does anyone see him a any different than Calcaterra or Salmonson? Will he be a double double kind of player? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teeder11 Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 So what are the first impressions of Shanks? I know it is a small one or two game sample size, but does anyone see him a any different than Calcaterra or Salmonson? Will he be a double double kind of player? Too early to tell, he's only played 11 minutes of one game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sioux24/7 Posted December 29, 2014 Author Share Posted December 29, 2014 So what are the first impressions of Shanks? I know it is a small one or two game sample size, but does anyone see him a any different than Calcaterra or Salmonson? Will he be a double double kind of player? Very small sample. Played 11 mins in the game against Marquette. The biggest difference between him and Calc and Salmonson is that Shanks is only a freshman. He also apparently is able to shoot a little bit beings he attempted two three-pointers against Marquette. It would be nice if he can bulk up but I don't see him adding a whole lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nd1sufan Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Very small sample. Played 11 mins in the game against Marquette. The biggest difference between him and Calc and Salmonson is that Shanks is only a freshman. He also apparently is able to shoot a little bit beings he attempted two three-pointers against Marquette. It would be nice if he can bulk up but I don't see him adding a whole lot. Yes, The five minutes or so I watched him it looked like 30-40 pounds would help him out. You don't see a lot of 200-210 pound big men do really well in D1 basketball unless they are freakishly athletic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxperfan7 Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Very small sample. Played 11 mins in the game against Marquette. The biggest difference between him and Calc and Salmonson is that Shanks is only a freshman. He also apparently is able to shoot a little bit beings he attempted two three-pointers against Marquette. It would be nice if he can bulk up but I don't see him adding a whole lot. Any time you can develope a 7 footer to a solid rebounder and someoune who can shoot outside shots, that adds a lot to the team. Whether Shanks can consistently do that over his career here is the big question mark. We need a guy who can be our Windex man and grab rebounds, especially offensive. Agreed way to early to tell, but he has the potential to fill a need for us. Side note, who was the last 7 footer to play for UND? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petey23 Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Any time you can develope a 7 footer to a solid rebounder and someoune who can shoot outside shots, that adds a lot to the team. Whether Shanks can consistently do that over his career here is the big question mark. We need a guy who can be our Windex man and grab rebounds, especially offensive. Agreed way to early to tell, but he has the potential to fill a need for us. Side note, who was the last 7 footer to play for UND? James Beard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDBIZ Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I couldn't care less if the big man is able to shoot 3's. I want a big who can overpower people down low, for some reason Jones never seems to get those though. Seeing the shorter/stronger bigs at ndsu should've opened up Jones' eyes regarding how weak our posts are. All those boys need to hit the weights and get on a meat & potatoes diet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I couldn't care less if the big man is able to shoot 3's. I want a big who can overpower people down low, for some reason Jones never seems to get those though. Seeing the shorter/stronger bigs at ndsu should've opened up Jones' eyes regarding how weak our posts are. All those boys need to hit the weights and get on a meat & potatoes diet. Great post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDBIZ Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Tom Miller @tommillergf Stefan no longer with UND MBB | Miller's UND sports coverage http://shar.es/1H521F via @sharethis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIOUXFAN97 Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 I couldn't care less if the big man is able to shoot 3's. I want a big who can overpower people down low, for some reason Jones never seems to get those though. Seeing the shorter/stronger bigs at ndsu should've opened up Jones' eyes regarding how weak our posts are. All those boys need to hit the weights and get on a meat & potatoes diet. that punk down in omaha in the season finale looked like shaq against our big guys.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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