UND 2013-14 season

[yababy8]

a coupe of other things I am noticing the last few games(and in a pronounced fashion this last Sat night);

-From the defensive zone through neutral, the defensemen have been feeding the forwards with very accurate passes that the

forwards have been receiving in great position. (still want to see them drop it to the trailer after they gain the zone when the situation is right)

-almost the whole team has been showing some high-end intelligence with the utilization of open space and ice. Some of the best I have seen since DOT. (it's early yet I know, but I'm seeing it, and hey I saw Frattin pretty early too ) ... I;m just say'n...

-starting to see some good forechecking on a couple lines.

[Oxbow6]

No flaming but I disagree with your assessment.

First of all putting a '13-'14 Rocco down one in a comparison with the '11-'12 Nelson is silly.

Second I think this team has more overall talent front to back than the '11-'12 team.

Your Rocco>>>>Brock comparison? Really...pure goal scorers don't come thru UND often and as electric and dynamic as Rocco is your comparison is silly IMO. I would take that years Brock for this Rocco this weekend right now and would bet most here would too. Bottom line in hockey...getting pucks in the net.

Talent wise probably but more doesn't equate into wins. Again "you play to win the game(s)". This falls on leadership and...wait for it...wait for it...coaching.

[yzerman19]

No flaming but I disagree with your assessment.

First of all putting a '13-'14 Rocco down one in a comparison with the '11-'12 Nelson is silly.

Second I think this team has more overall talent front to back than the '11-'12 team. The biggest X factor will be in net..

I think I read in another post that you did not see much of the games this weekend? In any case the team looked very impressive especially on Sat night. I wrote the following in the Sat game thread:

I saw Friday, not Saturday.

We can disagree on the Rocco vs Nelson assessment, but here are the facts that sway me. 28 goals by Nelson in 11-12, 4 for Rocco so far. Nelson a #1 draft pick, Rocco a #2. 6 foot 3, 5 foot 6. I like Rocco, but I think Nelson simply has a better knack around the net, and last I checked it was goals scored, not scoring chances that put Ws on the board.

What are the differences in this team vs that team in personnel upfront?

Rocco and Jewels and Chyzyk vs Kristo and Knight and Nelson (advantage 2011-2012 team)

Mark Mac and OD and Parks vs Mark Mac and Parks and Rowney(mostly same guys- pretty much a draw in talent, but 2011-2012 Rowney scored 18 goals...)

The General, Gaarder and Rodwell/Mitch vs Mario, Gaarder and Rodwell/Mitch (pretty much a draw, if anything 2011-2012 advantage for Mario's green blood)

Tambellini, Murphy, and Johnson vs whomever the 2011-2012 could get healthy (upside potential won by 2013-2014, but thee guys have a combined 3 goals and 7 assists so far...not exactly killing it)

[I Ranger]

I saw Friday, not Saturday.

We can disagree on the Rocco vs Nelson assessment, but here are the facts that sway me. 28 goals by Nelson in 11-12, 4 for Rocco so far. Nelson a #1 draft pick, Rocco a #2. 6 foot 3, 5 foot 6. I like Rocco, but I think Nelson simply has a better knack around the net, and last I checked it was goals scored, not scoring chances that put Ws on the board.

What are the differences in this team vs that team in personnel upfront?

Rocco and Jewels and Chyzyk vs Kristo and Knight and Nelson (advantage 2011-2012 team)

Mark Mac and OD and Parks vs Mark Mac and Parks and Rowney(mostly same guys- pretty much a draw in talent, but 2011-2012 Rowney scored 18 goals...)

The General, Gaarder and Rodwell/Mitch vs Mario, Gleason and Pattyn(pretty much a draw, if anything 2011-2012 advantage for Mario's green blood)

Tambellini, Murphy, and Johnson vs Senkbeil-Gaarder-Usually a Double shift for Nelson(upside potential won by 2013-2014, but thee guys have a combined 3 goals and 7 assists so far...not exactly killing it)

Fixed your post above on the lines from 2011-12. We were short two forwards so Gleason played on the third line with Mario and Pattyn and Gaarder and Senkbeil were on the fourth line with someone double shifting usually Nelson.

As far as the Nelson vs. Rocco comparison realize the difference between the twos linemates. As evidenced by Friday night this past weekend, Rocco has to carry the load whereas Nelson had great talent around him with Knight and Kristo. Big difference but they are totally different players.

[yzerman19]

Fixed your post above on the lines from 2011-12. We were short two forwards so Gleason played on the third line with Mario and Pattyn and Gaarder and Senkbeil were on the fourth line with someone double shifting usually Nelson.

As far as the Nelson vs. Rocco comparison realize the difference between the twos linemates. As evidenced by Friday night this past weekend, Rocco has to carry the load whereas Nelson had great talent around him with Knight and Kristo. Big difference but they are totally different players.

Very different players...and they tried to put Rocco with Knight and Kristo last year with marginal success. Rocco doesn't play a role very well. Heis über talented, but just doesn't fit well. He didn't fit with the WJC team either. People pumped up his two goal gold medal game, but they were goals I could've scored- one off his rear end.

[sprig]

I saw Friday, not Saturday.

The difference from Friday to Saturday was striking. In fact Saturday was so much better than any game so far this year (including the wins) that it gave some of us hope. Still should have scored more, but hoping that will come. They looked like Sioux teams from the past (the good past) on Saturday.

[tnt]

I read in an old Bemidji State thread several years ago that the team was basically devoid of talent, and some people agreeing and that team included Nelson, Kristo and Knight. I also remember another poster saying it was going to be a long winter. So I guess it is all relative to how the fans are feeling.

[sprig]

Maybe it was the football season that left everyone depressed before starting the hockey season.

[scpa0305]

I saw Friday, not Saturday.

We can disagree on the Rocco vs Nelson assessment, but here are the facts that sway me. 28 goals by Nelson in 11-12, 4 for Rocco so far. Nelson a #1 draft pick, Rocco a #2. 6 foot 3, 5 foot 6. I like Rocco, but I think Nelson simply has a better knack around the net, and last I checked it was goals scored, not scoring chances that put Ws on the board.

What are the differences in this team vs that team in personnel upfront?

Rocco and Jewels and Chyzyk vs Kristo and Knight and Nelson (advantage 2011-2012 team)

Mark Mac and OD and Parks vs Mark Mac and Parks and Rowney(mostly same guys- pretty much a draw in talent, but 2011-2012 Rowney scored 18 goals...)

The General, Gaarder and Rodwell/Mitch vs Mario, Gaarder and Rodwell/Mitch (pretty much a draw, if anything 2011-2012 advantage for Mario's green blood)

Tambellini, Murphy, and Johnson vs whomever the 2011-2012 could get healthy (upside potential won by 2013-2014, but thee guys have a combined 3 goals and 7 assists so far...not exactly killing it)

Completely agree with this statement, please people do not compare Rocco to Brock Nelson. He is like one year older and plays on a line with John Taveras.

[scpa0305]

Very different players...and they tried to put Rocco with Knight and Kristo last year with marginal success. Rocco doesn't play a role very well. Heis über talented, but just doesn't fit well. He didn't fit with the WJC team either. People pumped up his two goal gold medal game, but they were goals I could've scored- one off his rear end.

Also very true. I am having a hard time figuring him out. When I watch him he appears to be the best player on the ice most of the time, or at least the hardest working/skilled player on the ice. One thing I have been saying about him for quite some time is that he takes some pretty risky chances (the exact reason he was sat at the WJCs). Also, at first glance his shot appears good but I am starting to doubt that or else he would have more goals by now through two seasons (yes, we have a relatively large sample size). I think he should switch his style of play to become more of a disher. Use that uber burst to create space and move the puck to the soft spots rather than going to the hole. With how he handles the puck in the O-zone he could have 2 assists per game. Maybe put O'Donnell on his line. I don't know, just my thoughts from watching him the past two years.

[yzerman19]

I think if you put Rocco alone on the ice with a couple bottles of Gatorade, a stop watch, a dozen cones, and two puck bags, you could see some things that only guys who make $2mil+ per year can do. Unfortunately, that isn't how the game is played.

[UNDBIZ]

Also very true. I am having a hard time figuring him out. When I watch him he appears to be the best player on the ice most of the time, or at least the hardest working/skilled player on the ice. One thing I have been saying about him for quite some time is that he takes some pretty risky chances (the exact reason he was sat at the WJCs). Also, at first glance his shot appears good but I am starting to doubt that or else he would have more goals by now through two seasons (yes, we have a relatively large sample size). I think he should switch his style of play to become more of a disher. Use that uber burst to create space and move the puck to the soft spots rather than going to the hole. With how he handles the puck in the O-zone he could have 2 assists per game. Maybe put O'Donnell on his line. I don't know, just my thoughts from watching him the past two years.

He does this a lot. Unfortunately, the other guys are never ready for the puck when it comes to them.

[smokey the cat]

He does this a lot. Unfortunately, the other guys are never ready for the puck when it comes to them.

Maybe because they are not expecting him to pass. He seems to pass very little.

[jk]

I don't see much difference in the talent level of the forwards between the two years. If you line up the guys, there are a few better on each side. I'll agree that the top end may have been a touch better two years ago, with the depth better this year.

Rocco is growing as a player. The aspects people criticize are real, but they are diminishing. He has a motor and forechecking work ethic that reminds of Parise.

I think I will like the defensemen on this team, at the end of the year, better than two years ago. Schmatlz is going to be really good, in a future NHL player way. Stecher is going to be really good eventually, in a college star way.

[tnt]

Maybe because they are not expecting him to pass. He seems to pass very little.

Heard the same thing about Kristo, only it was much more prevalent.

[SJHovey]

One of the differences between this team and the one we've had the last few seasons is face offs. The team is getting better, and I think will be much better by the end of the season, but I don't think they've yet developed a reliable center who will consistently dominate in the face off circle. Mark Mac's injury hasn't helped in this regard. That means we spend an awful lot of time trying to get the puck back.

[UNDBIZ]

Heard the same thing about Kristo, only it was much more prevalent.

Kristo was incapable of passing the puck. In his first 2 years, on the rare occasion that he tried to pass, the pass was awful. IMO, that was the area of his game that saw the most improvement over his 4 years at UND.

[Snake]

Also very true. I am having a hard time figuring him out. When I watch him he appears to be the best player on the ice most of the time, or at least the hardest working/skilled player on the ice. One thing I have been saying about him for quite some time is that he takes some pretty risky chances (the exact reason he was sat at the WJCs). Also, at first glance his shot appears good but I am starting to doubt that or else he would have more goals by now through two seasons (yes, we have a relatively large sample size). I think he should switch his style of play to become more of a disher. Use that uber burst to create space and move the puck to the soft spots rather than going to the hole. With how he handles the puck in the O-zone he could have 2 assists per game. Maybe put O'Donnell on his line. I don't know, just my thoughts from watching him the past two years.

Unfortunately, many of his most risky chances are attempts to dish the puck.

[yzerman19]

I don't see much difference in the talent level of the forwards between the two years. If you line up the guys, there are a few better on each side. I'll agree that the top end may have been a touch better two years ago, with the depth better this year.

Rocco is growing as a player. The aspects people criticize are real, but they are diminishing. He has a motor and forechecking work ethic that reminds of Parise.

I think I will like the defensemen on this team, at the end of the year, better than two years ago. Schmatlz is going to be really good, in a future NHL player way. Stecher is going to be really good eventually, in a college star way.

I get what you're saying about tenacity and Zach, but let's be honest, when Zach was 20, he was playing in Albany (would've been Jersey but for the lockout) and had already racked up 116 points and been a 2-time Hobey Baker finalist in NCAA. Albeit he was injured that first year, but Rocco hasn't produced at a level that even approximates Zach. I know that's not what you're saying, and Rocco does really work out there, but the guy just hasn't been a scorer or a set up man thus far.

[Goon]

I get what you're saying about tenacity and Zach, but let's be honest, when Zach was 20, he was playing in Albany (would've been Jersey but for the lockout) and had already racked up 116 points and been a 2-time Hobey Baker finalist in NCAA. Albeit he was injured that first year, but Rocco hasn't produced at a level that even approximates Zach. I know that's not what you're saying, and Rocco does really work out there, but the guy just hasn't been a scorer or a set up man thus far.

Did you guys see that Zach supposed to be out 2-3 weeks and tried to make a go of it today?

[Oxbow6]

Bottom line this team needs to produce more goals on a consistent basis...especially when you give up roughly 3+ on a game. Now who is going to score them is the issue IMO.

[yzerman19]

Bottom line this team needs to produce more goals on a consistent basis...especially when you give up roughly 3+ on a game. Now who is going to score them is the issue IMO.

^ This. You have to generate scoring. Again, I didn't see Saturday, but what I've seen so far has been a team that lacks scoring touch.

[yzerman19]

Did you guys see that Zach supposed to be out 2-3 weeks and tried to make a go of it today?

And that is why he wore green and white and not maroon and gold.

[yababy8]

I think if you put Rocco alone on the ice with a couple bottles of Gatorade, a stop watch, a dozen cones, and two puck bags, you could see some things that only guys who make $2mil+ per year can do. Unfortunately, that isn't how the game is played.

I did not intend to compare Rocco and Nelson on a skill set by skill set basis. My only intention was to counter the idea that as an overall player Rocco is not a grade below Nelson in said years. Time will answer this question the most. Overall, in the college game as a value to their team, they are on the same level at least.

and yes, as I pointed out from the beginning, Rocco is an assist man and yes we need to get him a finisher. It could be O'Donnell? heck after seeing the poise out of Pattyn on Sat maybe he could be the man. He might have some Bochenski in him?

Otherwise I totally agree with pretty much every post on here following mine last night. Only exception would be that Rocco doesn't pass. He absolutely passes and when he does they are usually things of beauty.

I hope we see more nights like last Sat so you can see what we are talking about.

[tnt]

^ This. You have to generate scoring. Again, I didn't see Saturday, but what I've seen so far has been a team that lacks scoring touch.

Once again, this has been said of just about every team Hakstol has said. Look at posts before Christmas and you will see the same kind of frustration year after year.