COMMITTED UND Recruits

[UNDBIZ]

1 hour ago, stoneySIOUX said:

Who's your example that that hasn't happened yet? Other than Mismash, who's been injured for large chunks and is only a junior this year, who would you say is higher end? 

JBD and Johnny are the two high enders and both had very good years. Gooch is our leading scorer. Scheel? Would have been an all league player had he not gotten injured. 

I don't understand.

I don't think I'd describe him as "high-end," but Hoff was supposed to be good.

[stoneySIOUX]

1 minute ago, UNDBIZ said:

I don't think I'd describe him as "high-end," but Hoff was supposed to be good.

He's my biggest miss we've had in a long time. 

[90siouxfan]

wilkie?

[TheFlop]

1 hour ago, stoneySIOUX said:

Who's your example that that hasn't happened yet? Other than Mismash, who's been injured for large chunks and is only a junior this year, who would you say is higher end? 

JBD and Johnny are the two high enders and both had very good years. Gooch is our leading scorer. Scheel? Would have been an all league player had he not gotten injured. 

I don't understand.

Are you serious?  Colin Adams scored consistently in a very tough league (USHL).....nothing since then.  As UNDBiz pointed out the same could be said about Hoff (step below Adams IMO).....Mismash has been ok but I would argue he has performed below expectations given the hoopla he came in with.  These were high end recruits (not elite, but high end) that have done nothing.  Say what you want about St Cloud but they do good taking middle of the road players and getting them to exceed expectations. If only Jost hadn't left early.......none of this would have happened right?

[TheFlop]

9 minutes ago, 90siouxfan said:

wilkie?

Wilkie's not really a miss IMO, just a guy that probbaly needed another year.  Though I think it would be fair to put him in a similar category to Mismash.  Not bad, but not where people thought they'd be 

[90siouxfan]

16 minutes ago, TheFlop said:

Wilkie's not really a miss IMO, just a guy that probbaly needed another year.  Though I think it would be fair to put him in a similar category to Mismash.  Not bad, but not where people thought they'd be 

Didn't he tie Boesser for the USHL scoring title, I would have thought he would have higher expectations.

[stoneySIOUX]

51 minutes ago, TheFlop said:

Are you serious?  Colin Adams scored consistently in a very tough league (USHL).....nothing since then.  As UNDBiz pointed out the same could be said about Hoff (step below Adams IMO).....Mismash has been ok but I would argue he has performed below expectations given the hoopla he came in with.  These were high end recruits (not elite, but high end) that have done nothing.  Say what you want about St Cloud but they do good taking middle of the road players and getting them to exceed expectations. If only Jost hadn't left early.......none of this would have happened right?

Yes, I'm serious. You're making it sound like it's nuts to not think we have a development problem.

Adams is another. Sad that I forgot him because it helps show what you're saying. So, Hoff and Adams. Feels overstated. But it's fine. 

They're only about to start their junior year. Development isn't done. Hoff feels like a miss and Adams has underperformed. How about a guy like Kierstad? Senden? You ignored my comment about Guchi and Scheel. Goes both ways, it seems. 

[cberkas]

Michaud transferring to UND.

[MinnesotaSiouxFan]

Michaud is a nice “get”...proven scorer and we need centers and a power play.

[TheFlop]

46 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

Yes, I'm serious. You're making it sound like it's nuts to not think we have a development problem.

Adams is another. Sad that I forgot him because it helps show what you're saying. So, Hoff and Adams. Feels overstated. But it's fine. 

They're only about to start their junior year. Development isn't done. Hoff feels like a miss and Adams has underperformed. How about a guy like Kierstad? Senden? You ignored my comment about Guchi and Scheel. Goes both ways, it seems. 

Senden came in good, now let's see if he continues to develop.  Kierstad is a defenseman so don't change the subject, by most accounts the Dmen on this team have not been the issue. Guch has performed as expected.  He came in expected to score some but 10 goals as an older sophomore is solid but not setting the world on fire.  That being said I like Guch as a 2nd line scorer type option.  

[stoneySIOUX]

15 minutes ago, TheFlop said:

Senden came in good, now let's see if he continues to develop.  Kierstad is a defenseman so don't change the subject, by most accounts the Dmen on this team have not been the issue. Guch has performed as expected.  He came in expected to score some but 10 goals as an older sophomore is solid but not setting the world on fire.  That being said I like Guch as a 2nd line scorer type option.  

Oh, so Bubbs only knows how to develop D-men. Got it lol. 

So, can we establish the high enders, in your eyes when they came in? 

Guchi, Adams, Hoff, Mash, right? If that's the case, I'd say there are three juniors on there, one who's been injured, one who took a big jump from the beginning of his freshman year and another who's not developed much. Hoff has been a miss.

Any other ones? If so, this whole thing again seems overstated. 

[SiouxForever]

38 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

Oh, so Bubbs only knows how to develop D-men. Got it lol. 

So, can we establish the high enders, in your eyes when they came in? 

Guchi, Adams, Hoff, Mash, right? If that's the case, I'd say there are three juniors on there, one who's been injured, one who took a big jump from the beginning of his freshman year and another who's not developed much. Hoff has been a miss.

Any other ones? If so, this whole thing again seems overstated. 

Guchi was a Denver recruit too, so very fortunate there. In addition, UND benefited getting Nick Jones for a few years. Could you imagine him not being on the team the last few years? 

I can’t imagine recruiting is easy and not a every player wants to play at UND or live in Grand Forks. However, with that said, UND has dropped the ball with forward recruits the last ~ 3 years. 

Goalie and D-situation should be very solid for pipeline. Just need to score 3 or more goals a game next year. :-) 

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

1 minute ago, SiouxForever said:

Guchi was a Denver recruit too, so very fortunate there. In addition, UND benefited getting Nick Jones for a few years.  

Boeser was Wisconsin, Ausmus was Denver,  Stecher was Omaha(probably forgetting some)... it seems you may need a little “luck” as a coach

[stoneySIOUX]

8 minutes ago, SiouxForever said:

Guchi was a Denver recruit too, so very fortunate there. In addition, UND benefited getting Nick Jones for a few years. Could you imagine him not being on the team the last few years? 

I can’t imagine recruiting is easy and not a every player wants to play at UND or live in Grand Forks. However, with that said, UND has dropped the ball with forward recruits the last ~ 3 years. 

Goalie and D-situation should be very solid for pipeline. Just need to score 3 or more goals a game next year. :-) 

3 should work.

[gfhockey]

If we can’t devlip them steal them when they are developed!

[Irish]

3 hours ago, stoneySIOUX said:

Yes, I'm serious. You're making it sound like it's nuts to not think we have a development problem.

Adams is another. Sad that I forgot him because it helps show what you're saying. So, Hoff and Adams. Feels overstated. But it's fine. 

They're only about to start their junior year. Development isn't done. Hoff feels like a miss and Adams has underperformed. How about a guy like Kierstad? Senden? You ignored my comment about Guchi and Scheel. Goes both ways, it seems. 

We scored 2 goals or less in 19 games and missed the playoffs for the second year.  In my mind there are a limited number of possibilities as to how this happened.  1.  Missing on recruits 2. Lack of development of recruits  3.  Systems systems systems  4.  A combination of 1 and 2   5.  All is going according to plan (which seems to be your take on things).  No way St. Cloud and Duluth should be skating circles around us.  None.

[tnt]

1 hour ago, gfhockey said:

If we can’t devlip them steal them when they are developed!

If you can’t develop spelling skills, there is always spell check!

[stoneySIOUX]

25 minutes ago, Irish said:

We scored 2 goals or less in 19 games and missed the playoffs for the second year.  In my mind there are a limited number of possibilities as to how this happened.  1.  Missing on recruits 2. Lack of development of recruits  3.  Systems systems systems  4.  A combination of 1 and 2   5.  All is going according to plan (which seems to be your take on things).  No way St. Cloud and Duluth should be skating circles around us.  None.

Missing on getting recruits the last couple of years, IMO. It happens. That's not according to plan, so I'm not sure why you'd think I said or think that. Pipeline overall, especially forward wise seems better based on rankings and stats in the next couple of classes. 

I'm overall happy with our player development, in general. Fine if you don't share that opinion. Our systems haven't changed much since I've watched UND hockey and with the increase in talent incoming (again, not my opinion but by rankings and stats), I'm going to stay optimistic. 

[cberkas]

Donovan's brother just committed to Wisconsin.

Highly unlikely that he changed his commitment to Wisconsin because his brother wouldn't have played at UND.

[brianvf]

Schloss commented on Twitter that Rizzo is "almost for sure" headed back to Penticton next year.
And that he'd have more info on that soon.

[yzerman19]

3 hours ago, Irish said:

We scored 2 goals or less in 19 games and missed the playoffs for the second year.  In my mind there are a limited number of possibilities as to how this happened.  1.  Missing on recruits 2. Lack of development of recruits  3.  Systems systems systems  4.  A combination of 1 and 2   5.  All is going according to plan (which seems to be your take on things).  No way St. Cloud and Duluth should be skating circles around us.  None.

That 2 goal stat is glaring, and is the reason this is even a conversation.

now to address your rationale-

1.  Have we "missed" on blue chippas that are college bound?  More than usual?  I think we've missed on some guys that ended up 1 and done...mostly out East...wonder if post Jost, if Berry is asking guys to commit for at least 2 years.  Building on top of a foundation, not starting from soil...

2.  Lack of development- could be the case, but how?  Physical?  All I've ever heard is Pooly excels at that aspect.  Skills?  18-20 year olds aren't developing skills anymore.  200 foot game?  Maybe we are over-developing that aspect, which is leading to better all around hockey players, but sacrificing the offense of previously offensively dominant players...

3.  Systems?  The predominant system is puck control- it's also the predominant system in the NHL.  Logic is if you have the puck, other team can't score.  The system is working as intended with our CORSI and other advanced stats as evidence.  Now, Powerplay is its own animal and has definitely been an issue, so I give that a thumbs up.

4. Possibly, but I ask develop into what?  Scoring machines?  You aren't going to manufacture that at this age.

5.  Plan?  I think the answer is yes.  I do think we are getting guys.  I think we'd do well to look at more guys with offensive upside rather than sick current offense.

 

 

[Frozen4sioux]

1 hour ago, yzerman19 said:

That 2 goal stat is glaring, and is the reason this is even a conversation.

now to address your rationale-

1.  Have we "missed" on blue chippas that are college bound?  More than usual?  I think we've missed on some guys that ended up 1 and done...mostly out East...wonder if post Jost, if Berry is asking guys to commit for at least 2 years.  Building on top of a foundation, not starting from soil...

2.  Lack of development- could be the case, but how?  Physical?  All I've ever heard is Pooly excels at that aspect.  Skills?  18-20 year olds aren't developing skills anymore.  200 foot game?  Maybe we are over-developing that aspect, which is leading to better all around hockey players, but sacrificing the offense of previously offensively dominant players...

3.  Systems?  The predominant system is puck control- it's also the predominant system in the NHL.  Logic is if you have the puck, other team can't score.  The system is working as intended with our CORSI and other advanced stats as evidence.  Now, Powerplay is its own animal and has definitely been an issue, so I give that a thumbs up.

4. Possibly, but I ask develop into what?  Scoring machines?  You aren't going to manufacture that at this age.

5.  Plan?  I think the answer is yes.  I do think we are getting guys.  I think we'd do well to look at more guys with offensive upside rather than sick current offense.

 

 

(Skills?  18-20 year olds aren't developing skills anymore. ) 

Will respectfully, wholeheartedly, adamantly, disagree.

As will every college, junior, and pro coach, scout, and executive.

Can absolutely expect that skills are being unlocked and developed at that age.

 

 

[SIOUXELEVENS]

So all these players that score in juniors just lose it when they get here? Sounds to me that Berry’s systems benefit the dmen development but not fowards, with the last two years you can’t convince me otherwise. Adams, Hoff, Wilkie, JJ, Mismash, Weatherby , lots of examples. Ward in Omaha didn’t score as much in juniors anc look what he had done.

[TheFlop]

6 hours ago, brianvf said:

Schloss commented on Twitter that Rizzo is "almost for sure" headed back to Penticton next year.
And that he'd have more info on that soon.

Was wondering who would get pushed back another year with Michaud coming in.  Isn't Rizzo high end enough where that might not be something he wants to do?  

[scpa0305]

14 hours ago, TheFlop said:

Are you serious?  Colin Adams scored consistently in a very tough league (USHL).....nothing since then.  As UNDBiz pointed out the same could be said about Hoff (step below Adams IMO).....Mismash has been ok but I would argue he has performed below expectations given the hoopla he came in with.  These were high end recruits (not elite, but high end) that have done nothing.  Say what you want about St Cloud but they do good taking middle of the road players and getting them to exceed expectations. If only Jost hadn't left early.......none of this would have happened right?

As far as Adams goes, he's an undersized underclassman.  His first year in the USHL he played with an NHL player and his second year he dropped off a bit.  Yes, he is skilled.  But he was never going to come in a light it up early.  His damage should be in his upperclassmen years.  During his underclassmen years, he playing against older comp. as compared to who he played against in juniors.  Also, who are these middle of the road players you are speaking of?