Illinois State @ UND 11/13/21

[The Sicatoka]

3 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

Our red zone offense is ranked 11th in MVFC.  Our red zone defense is 12th.

You mean 10th and 11th. 

http://www.mvc.org/football/stats/Valley Football Stats Conf.pdf?path=football 

But who'd have believed ... fewest penalties and penalty yards. 

[nodak651]

We have 7 red zone turnovers... crazy.

[nodak651]

3 hours ago, SiouxFan100 said:

As been said - we would be better if our qb scrambled for yards. Just the threat helps.

of course we don’t want our qb to get hurt either. Scramble and slide past the 1 st down marker please

 I asked before - how much can we expect our qb to increase in  arm strength (measured by how many yards he can pass) as he matures?

How many yards do you think he can throw it and how many yards do you think he should be able to throw it (an acceptable number for you)?

[geaux_sioux]

8 minutes ago, nodak651 said:

We have 7 red zone turnovers... crazy.

I’ve never seen anything like it. We used to be money in the red zone. Now it makes me nervous like 3rd and long on d used to.

[SiouxFan100]

1 hour ago, nodak651 said:

How many yards do you think he can throw it and how many yards do you think he should be able to throw it (an acceptable number for you)?

I am just wondering. Will a qb gain ten yards in college? No idea. If folks are complaining about arm strength- will it get better and how much better?

being you asked. I would think a qb should be able to throw about sixty yards?

should Add rereading the question. I think Tommy can throw at least 50 yards - probably 55?

[SiouxFan100]

24 minutes ago, nodak651 said:

We have 7 red zone turnovers... crazy.

Hard to relax as a fan. Can’t count it until about a minute after we score.

[Midwestern Hawk]

2 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

You mean 10th and 11th. 

http://www.mvc.org/football/stats/Valley Football Stats Conf.pdf?path=football 

But who'd have believed ... fewest penalties and penalty yards. 

Agree.  They must all be illegal motion.

[zonadub]

2 hours ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

Our red zone offense is ranked 11th in MVFC.  Our red zone defense is 12th.

Wow! That’s really bad in an 11 team conference.  

[nd1sufan]

3 hours ago, SiouxFan100 said:

As been said - we would be better if our qb scrambled for yards. Just the threat helps.

of course we don’t want our qb to get hurt either. Scramble and slide past the 1 st down marker please

 I asked before - how much can we expect our qb to increase in  arm strength (measured by how many yards he can pass) as he matures?

If you want a scrambling QB I don’t think Feeney is much of a scrambler. He is a good QB, but running is not his game.

[nodak651]

I was curious so I looked up Tommy's bio... says he ran for 1,033 yards and 14 touchdowns in 3 seasons as a starter.  He has done it in the past, so what has changed?  Do the coaches really want him to run as much as they say otherwise in public?

[shep]

8 hours ago, nodak651 said:

I was curious so I looked up Tommy's bio... says he ran for 1,033 yards and 14 touchdowns in 3 seasons as a starter.  He has done it in the past, so what has changed?  Do the coaches really want him to run as much as they say otherwise in public?

He's tentative when he runs. That's it. Was it last week or the week before, he's got at least 10 yards in front of him, starts to run, and makes a pass.

[Dustin]

32 minutes ago, shep said:

He's tentative when he runs. That's it. Was it last week or the week before, he's got at least 10 yards in front of him, starts to run, and makes a pass.

It happened against Illinois St. for sure - that could be the one you're thinking of.  I think because Tommy is on the smaller side, he's probably been told by HS coaches (or naturally does it out of self defense) to not expose himself by running.  I think our coaches are working on getting this as part of his game, and I think this will be become an element of his game.  I don't think he'll scare defensive coordinators with his running/scrambling, but he'll better learn that there are situations where it is a good option.  I've thought a couple times when it was 3rd & short at the goal line, they should have Tommy do a designed run because the defense would never suspect it!

[Sioux94]

13 hours ago, Dustin said:

It happened against Illinois St. for sure - that could be the one you're thinking of.  I think because Tommy is on the smaller side, he's probably been told by HS coaches (or naturally does it out of self defense) to not expose himself by running.  I think our coaches are working on getting this as part of his game, and I think this will be become an element of his game.  I don't think he'll scare defensive coordinators with his running/scrambling, but he'll better learn that there are situations where it is a good option.  I've thought a couple times when it was 3rd & short at the goal line, they should have Tommy do a designed run because the defense would never suspect it!

Hopefully now he has definitely learned that when you slide, they mark the ball at the very begining when you are just starting to attempt the slide.  I think it's twice now that his slide was marked pretty far back and cost us a first down.  Seems like the ball should be down when your knee hits the ground when you slide, but pretty sure it is when you just even start the sliding motion.....but man they seem to really mark it pretty far back when he started to slide.  He may need to dive in some of those types of important situations when it's close.  

[Sioux94]

On 11/15/2021 at 6:19 PM, nd1sufan said:

If you want a scrambling QB I don’t think Feeney is much of a scrambler. He is a good QB, but running is not his game.

I went back and watched Feeney's hudl.  He is definitely primarily a passer and looks to pass first which is ok, but he had some nice runs when things broke down.  He looks a little quicker/faster than Tommy.  Tommy has good pocket presence and can avoid the rush pretty well, but he's not that fast and when he runs and does get out in the open the Defense closes on him pretty quickly.  I think Feeney is faster and will be able to make a few more downfield plays with his legs than Tommy when he has the chance. Feeney doesn't need to run 8 -10 times a game.  But if he can pull it down and run 4-5 plays a game and be effective at it that will help, just enough to annoy the hell out of the defense and give them something to think about. 

[SiouxFan100]

College quarterbacks should know from day one where the ball will be marked when they slide. They shouldn’t have to learn it by missing first downs in games.

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

I just have my reading glasses on, can't find the thread on here for the game coming up down I29?
The Jacks started one yesterday called

Move on...

 

Wait
That SD guy running with the two crutches in the end zone with the players was replaced by #2 who caught the 1 second Vermillion Miracle. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaE3ligeo4E.

 

[UND-FB-FAN]

15 hours ago, Sioux94 said:

I went back and watched Feeney's hudl.  He is definitely primarily a passer and looks to pass first which is ok, but he had some nice runs when things broke down.  He looks a little quicker/faster than Tommy.  Tommy has good pocket presence and can avoid the rush pretty well, but he's not that fast and when he runs and does get out in the open the Defense closes on him pretty quickly.  I think Feeney is faster and will be able to make a few more downfield plays with his legs than Tommy when he has the chance. Feeney doesn't need to run 8 -10 times a game.  But if he can pull it down and run 4-5 plays a game and be effective at it that will help, just enough to annoy the hell out of the defense and give them something to think about. 

Trey Feeney is a way better athlete than Schuster, that’s obvious, but Vaughn is a better athlete than Schuster also. Purely being a better athlete is not what Freund values in his QBs, obviously. Bubba and Freund value decision-making and leadership above all else, which is not necessary wrong. 

[siouxfan512]

9 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Trey Feeney is a way better athlete than Schuster, that’s obvious, but Vaughn is a better athlete than Schuster also. Purely being a better athlete is not what Freund values in his QBs, obviously. Bubba and Freund value decision-making and leadership above all else, which is not necessary wrong. 

Vaughn always looks slow to me. Even on short yardage runs, it seems like it takes him forever to get going, and the hole usually closes by the time he gets to the line. Tommy appears fast to me, though when he runs he seem to have already left the pocket and found space (obviously he has had more opportunities as well. To me, Tommy's running ability is not the problem, it is his decision making on when to do it.

If Feeney can run as well as Schuster, but make the decision to do it a little more often/time it right, I think he will be just fine. I'm more concerned about our QB's ability to throw beyond the line of scrimmage.

[UND-FB-FAN]

5 minutes ago, siouxfan512 said:

Vaughn always looks slow to me. Even on short yardage runs, it seems like it takes him forever to get going, and the hole usually closes by the time he gets to the line. Tommy appears fast to me, though when he runs he seem to have already left the pocket and found space (obviously he has had more opportunities as well. To me, Tommy's running ability is not the problem, it is his decision making on when to do it.

If Feeney can run as well as Schuster, but make the decision to do it a little more often/time it right, I think he will be just fine. I'm more concerned about our QB's ability to throw beyond the line of scrimmage.

Very perplexing bias you have there. Vaughn is not slower than Schuster. If Vaughn was somehow less of a running threat, he shouldn’t see the field at all in current setup as a “wildcat” QB. And don’t give me the “he’s a big bodied guy” reason for why he see’s the field, because if that is the only reason why Freund is playing him, then this offense is in worse hands than we thought. 

[nodak651]

9 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Very perplexing bias you have there. Vaughn is not slower than Schuster. If Vaughn was somehow less of a running threat, he shouldn’t see the field at all in current setup as a “wildcat” QB. And don’t give me the “he’s a big bodied guy” reason for why he see’s the field, because if that is the only reason why Freund is playing him, then this offense is in worse hands than we thought. 

He's no Quinton Patterson.  I agree with siouxfan512 - looks like average QB speed with but with above average toughness/effort.  Wasn't Joe Mollberg supposed to be a mobile qb as well?  I remember him being way slower than I expected as well, given the hype.  Given that Vaugn is supposed to have a stronger arm, has he had the chance to throw ANY deep balls?  I don't recall any, which is crazy considering the d usually expects a running play.

[Midwestern Hawk]

1 hour ago, siouxfan512 said:

Vaughn always looks slow to me. Even on short yardage runs, it seems like it takes him forever to get going, and the hole usually closes by the time he gets to the line. Tommy appears fast to me, though when he runs he seem to have already left the pocket and found space (obviously he has had more opportunities as well. To me, Tommy's running ability is not the problem, it is his decision making on when to do it.

If Feeney can run as well as Schuster, but make the decision to do it a little more often/time it right, I think he will be just fine. I'm more concerned about our QB's ability to throw beyond the line of scrimmage.

For UND to take the next step, and really be a threat to win a national championship it will be with the legs and arm of a dual-threat QB.  It will be a season like SDSU experienced last spring, where the QB is the difference between 8-3 and winning 1-2 playoff games and being 10-1 or 11-0 and winning 4 playoff games.  

Even this fall, if we have a QB who runs for a few first downs and the defense has to plan to contain him, its probably enough to put us over the top in spite of not having a deep passing game, a field goal kicker and many questionable game management decisions and play calls.  One more TD in each MVFC football game and we are playing OT at Vermillion for the win.  When one thinks back on just the problems in the red zone, we are that close in spite of other short-comings with this team/program.

[siouxfan512]

57 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Very perplexing bias you have there. Vaughn is not slower than Schuster. If Vaughn was somehow less of a running threat, he shouldn’t see the field at all in current setup as a “wildcat” QB. And don’t give me the “he’s a big bodied guy” reason for why he see’s the field, because if that is the only reason why Freund is playing him, then this offense is in worse hands than we thought. 

He might not be slower than Schuster, but I haven't exactly seen him turn on the wheels yet. Maybe he looks slower because he is bigger, I don't know. He never seems to be used like the MO St. QB who could pick up 4th and 9 on a QB keeper; that guy had speed.

The coaches seem to use him as more of a power runner because of his size, which is often strange to me anyway given that we have Otis.

I just haven't seen the guy flash on the run. Now, if he can get through the line and get some steam, he seems to be able to get additional yardage, but that doesn't seem to happen all that often.

[Oxbow6]

We always get the first down when we need it with QV.

[nodak651]

20 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

For UND to take the next step, and really be a threat to win a national championship it will be with the legs and arm of a dual-threat QB.  It will be a season like SDSU experienced last spring, where the QB is the difference between 8-3 and winning 1-2 playoff games and being 10-1 or 11-0 and winning 4 playoff games.  

Even this fall, if we have a QB who runs for a few first downs and the defense has to plan to contain him, its probably enough to put us over the top in spite of not having a deep passing game, a field goal kicker and many questionable game management decisions and play calls.  One more TD in each MVFC football game and we are playing OT at Vermillion for the win.  When one thinks back on just the problems in the red zone, we are that close in spite of other short-comings with this team/program.

If we're got to choose the one spot the team could get better at, I'd still say the O Line is more important.  A mobile QB doesn't help much on 3rd/4th and short if our O-line can't get enough push for a 1-3 yard gain when the D stacks the box and is expecting a run.  

Do you think Tommy has the ability to become as good of enough runner as you would like?  As in, do you think it's only decision making or do you think he isn't athletic enough or both? 

My worry is that I think it's unlikely that we find a QB that is both a better runner AND has as as good of a pocket presence and accuracy as Tommy.  I hope he stays QB, but with him being very young still, I think he can learn and improve his running game.  If he can do that, and the o line improves, UND could be really damn good on offense.

[Midwestern Hawk]

50 minutes ago, nodak651 said:

If we're got to choose the one spot the team could get better at, I'd still say the O Line is more important.  A mobile QB doesn't help much on 3rd/4th and short if our O-line can't get enough push for a 1-3 yard gain when the D stacks the box and is expecting a run.  

Do you think Tommy has the ability to become as good of enough runner as you would like?  As in, do you think it's only decision making or do you think he isn't athletic enough or both? 

My worry is that I think it's unlikely that we find a QB that is both a better runner AND has as as good of a pocket presence and accuracy as Tommy.  I hope he stays QB, but with him being very young still, I think he can learn and improve his running game.  If he can do that, and the o line improves, UND could be really damn good on offense.

The OL can always be better, but when do you think we will have a better OL than we had last spring?  We won't until we get to the next level as a program.  As the spring season wore on the DC's figured out how to defend Tommy and our offense and IMO we are still struggling on offense.

Tommy is not a runner.  He is good at rolling out and hitting short to medium throws on his first couple of reads and throwing bubble screens.  I'm not ripping him, just giving you an honest evaluation, no deep threat and a QB who is no threat to run.  At this point he will never be a runner, he is 3 years into the UND program and a couple times on Saturday he looked like a deer in the headlights when he did run.  I thought he was going to get his head removed in the red zone along our sideline after one of his best rushes all season.   

Don't forget when we are evaluating the offense we have a great RB in Otis.

We are 6-7 in our last 13 games

13 vs Bison

44 vs MSU (2 D TD's)

21 vs JMU

35 vs ISU

24 vs USU

38 vs Drake

10 vs Bison

13 vs USD

28 vs SIU (1 D TD)

28vs MSU

24 vs YSU

14 vs ISU

We won with 14 last weekend, but I don't think anybody can win consistently in the MVFC(or any conference) scoring 3 TDS or less a game.