Time to Boo Berry?

[fightingsioux4life]

2 minutes ago, Frozen4sioux said:

It's not about the "Hockey Market" it's the overall pool of what's available to offer.

This is where the B1G will dominate... strike that...

IS DOMINATING down into the world of NCAA hockey.

You have to understand it's not a "hockey market" issue or a "niche sport" issue.

It's a volume and alumni base available issue.

One great season does not equal a trend. The NCHC winning 5 out of the last 6 NCAA titles IS a trend. Cripes, take a pill and lie down. This season was a disaster, but it is not the end of the road for us.

[Frozen4sioux]

Just now, fightingsioux4life said:

Really? It is a FACT that hockey at B1G schools is not held with anything close to the regard that MBB and FB are. Sometimes I think even WBB may rank higher than hockey if their women's team is doing really well. There is not a thing I posted that was off-the-wall or out of bounds. Our program will NOT fade into the past and be relegated to mid-major status. Neither will the NCHC.

Ya know that meme of the dragon show where the ginger freak sez  something like ...

"You know nothing Jon Snow"...?

 

You are Jon, on this subject.

 

You don't even know what matters in your own argument. 

Hint: Hockey "popularity" vs other sports has nothing to do with the issue....  Zero, Zilch, Nada...

Nothing.

[CarpeRemote]

9 hours ago, fightingsioux4life said:

All this NIL talk is pure conjecture. FB and MBB will probably land the lion's share of deals since those sports have a much higher profile than hockey. Also, except for the Goofs, hockey ranks #3 at best (sometimes lower) at B1G schools.

The NCHC wasn't going to be #1 every year forever (that is just not realistic), but some people on this forum already have us being relegated to mid-major status from now on. I think that is alarmist. NIL is something UND boosters should take seriously, but it isn't the end all and be all some people think it is. The NCAA will likely introduce rules and regulations on NIL in the future, which will change things again. Let's focus on rebooting our program and less on things we cannot control.

LOL, the NCAA will save us, you are two years behind. For the millionth time, the NCAA is powerless, the Supreme Court > NCAA.

Without facing facts and UND getting on board we are the Big 10’s farm team. 

[fightingsioux4life]

1 minute ago, CarpeRemote said:

LOL, the NCAA will save us, you are two years behind. For the millionth time, the NCAA is powerless, the Supreme Court > NCAA.

Without facing facts and UND getting on board we are the Big 10’s farm team. 

The Supreme Court said they cannot prohibit NIL. That doesn't mean they cannot regulate it. I saw a story a few weeks back on my ESPN app on a school that was sanctioned for being involved in NIL. So it can be regulated.

[Frozen4sioux]

3 minutes ago, CarpeRemote said:

LOL, the NCAA will save us, you are two years behind. For the millionth time, the NCAA is powerless, the Supreme Court > NCAA.

Without facing facts and UND getting on board we are the Big 10’s farm team. 

This is accurate.

This cat is out of the NCAA's bag. They have zero control.

They can try and corral it but precedent has been set in the United States SUPREME COURT precedent.

.... but some fool on ss.com says hockey not popular so it's not an issue.  yikes

 

[burd]

9 minutes ago, Frozen4sioux said:

It's not about the "Hockey Market" it's the overall pool of what's available to offer.

This is where the B1G will dominate... strike that...

IS DOMINATING down into the world of NCAA hockey.

You have to understand it's not a "hockey market" issue or a "niche sport" issue.

It's a volume and alumni base available issue.

I'm willing to believe that since I will be the first to admit ignorance on the issue.   But if NIL involves the use of the player's name, image or likeness for marketing purposes, how can that marketing effort generate dollars if the marketplace doesn't care much about the name or image being used?   

You'll probably have to explain it to me like I'm a six-year-old, as Denzel Washington would say.  

[Frozen4sioux]

6 minutes ago, burd said:

I'm willing to believe that since I will be the first to admit ignorance on the issue.   But if NIL involves the use of the player's name, image or likeness for marketing purposes, how can that marketing effort generate dollars if the marketplace doesn't care much about the name or image being used?   

You'll probably have to explain it to me like I'm a six-year-old, as Denzel Washington would say.  

The collectives are not necessarily sport specific per say.... they sure could be.... if they wanted them to be.

So if Money is needed for the Hockey program to land a YUUGE 1st rounder or 5.... or the WBB team needs that superstar... 

The available pool of money from huge donor and alumni bases... money could be, and is used, through the collective.... to get that athlete paid.

"Through their NIL" 

It's not the money thay may make from selling some posters or doing a few commercials or running a hockey camp.

Its the money they will be given, funneled through sales of posters and a commercial if they commit.

 

The things these monies are

"not supposed to be used for"

and 

"what it's used for"

are not the same. No matter what the NCAA wants to try and control.

 

The "regulations" in NIL are being viewed as the speed limit is viewed on I-94.

 

When it was 65.

[burd]

Sounds like you're saying the programs hurt by the NIL policy will likely not have the leverage to ensure (through regulation) that the moneys gifted to the players are, in fact, generated from the marketing of that player's image, name or likeness?  It's just laundered money from individual and corporate boosters.

[fightingsioux4life]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/35727606/ncaa-sanctions-miami-women-hoop-nil-related-infraction%3fplatform=amp

Maybe @Frozen4sioux can explain this away? Without calling me stupid this time.

[Benny Baker]

41 minutes ago, burd said:

Sounds like you're saying the programs hurt by the NIL policy will likely not have the leverage to ensure (through regulation) that the moneys gifted to the players are, in fact, generated from the marketing of that player's image, name or likeness?  It's just laundered money from individual and corporate boosters.

Not sure much can be done.

Marketing of a player’s name, image, or likeness includes “appearance fees”.  NIL allows individuals or corporate boosters to launder money to athletes by simply having them come shake some hands and take some photographs at a back yard meet and great. 

[Frozen4sioux]

23 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/35727606/ncaa-sanctions-miami-women-hoop-nil-related-infraction%3fplatform=amp

Maybe @Frozen4sioux can explain this away? Without calling me stupid this time.

I was hoping you would go out and find this HEADLINE to try and "dunk" on it., because I knew you wouldn't understand the situation or how it relates to the overall topic.

Basically someone who knows absolutely nothing about the topic,

....and doesn't read details...

would actually think there something to this extreamly recent, ongoing, presently unlitigated and toothless attempt by the NCAA to regulate the NIL landscape

Hint: It doesn't. 

It was meaningless and toothless and literally spells out how not to conduct the activity vs stopping the activity.

 

This case also has nothing to do with anything you've tried to pretend to know about the NIL landscape.

What you and everyone needs to understand is that.

NIL will be, and IS the most influential and landscape altering aspect of college athletics for the remainder of the NCAAs existence.

It's never going to not be an issue in the college athletics world again. 

Nothing can stop it. 

It is a major factor right now in the recruiting landscape of college hockey.

Combined with the portal it's never going to be a non issue again.

Having your head ignorantly in the sand isn't going to change that.

[CarpeRemote]

2 hours ago, burd said:

Sounds like you're saying the programs hurt by the NIL policy will likely not have the leverage to ensure (through regulation) that the moneys gifted to the players are, in fact, generated from the marketing of that player's image, name or likeness?  It's just laundered money from individual and corporate boosters.

This isn’t directed at you but this shows how far behind many are in understanding nil.

From a non profit standpoint, caveman days billboards cost me $900/mo. What is a local star player’s 10-50k engaged social media followers worth? Answer, whatever the market bears.

If someone Is paying a kid 1M to sell air then they will answer to the IRS at deduction time. So I have zero concerns about “laundering”.
 

Regarding charitable collectives, they are run by BODs well known to the community and are open to IRS audits and have IRS rules, such as the pay must be in line with services. That’s regulation by current laws

 

if a UND charitable collective asks a highly visible, marketable enrolled athlete to raise awareness for Anne Carlsen, Development Homes, or Community Foundation via events, appearances, fundraisers, social media etc, is that worth $10-50k? Yep. Can they openly say they will only work with UND athletes? Yes they can.  
Can the school help athletes be aware of nil opportunities? Again, yes, and they should.
 

Not complicated,  It’s just business. If I had a semi-local business I’d advertise via my favorite player’s instagram, but instead I’d gladly contribute $400/month to a charitable collective. A kid could afford to be in college and I’d be doing good work. Most collectives allow you to ACH as low as $20/month tax deductible. 
 

Now multiply that by thousands, focus it toward hockey, and we are in business 
 

 

 

 

[burd]

3 hours ago, CarpeRemote said:

This isn’t directed at you but this shows how far behind many are in understanding nil.

From a non profit standpoint, caveman days billboards cost me $900/mo. What is a local star player’s 10-50k engaged social media followers worth? Answer, whatever the market bears.

If someone Is paying a kid 1M to sell air then they will answer to the IRS at deduction time. So I have zero concerns about “laundering”.
 

Regarding charitable collectives, they are run by BODs well known to the community and are open to IRS audits and have IRS rules, such as the pay must be in line with services. That’s regulation by current laws

 

if a UND charitable collective asks a highly visible, marketable enrolled athlete to raise awareness for Anne Carlsen, Development Homes, or Community Foundation via events, appearances, fundraisers, social media etc, is that worth $10-50k? Yep. Can they openly say they will only work with UND athletes? Yes they can.  
Can the school help athletes be aware of nil opportunities? Again, yes, and they should.
 

Not complicated,  It’s just business. If I had a semi-local business I’d advertise via my favorite player’s instagram, but instead I’d gladly contribute $400/month to a charitable collective. A kid could afford to be in college and I’d be doing good work. Most collectives allow you to ACH as low as $20/month tax deductible. 
 

Now multiply that by thousands, focus it toward hockey, and we are in business 
 

 

 

 

Thanks for that.   

BTW, if I need to be set straight, direct it at me.  We would all benefit from being set straight now and then.  

[dustnyou]

Wouldn’t an easy, legal and successful way to have big money into an NIL program be to run it through the Sioux Shop? I don’t know the details but I think Englestad Arena or the Englestad Foundation owns the Sioux Shop right? So they could offer a player $x to do appearances, commercials, social media marketing, etc to promote the Sioux Shop merchandise. They can get paid for this. The Sioux Shop could also pay players a % of the profits for all merchandise sold with their Name or Image on it. Jerseys, terseys, bobble heads, posters, etc. You buy a $150 Perron jersey / $50 goes to Perron. Am I out of line with this or missing something? 

[Benny Baker]

8 hours ago, CarpeRemote said:

This isn’t directed at you but this shows how far behind many are in understanding nil.

From a non profit standpoint, caveman days billboards cost me $900/mo. What is a local star player’s 10-50k engaged social media followers worth? Answer, whatever the market bears.

If someone Is paying a kid 1M to sell air then they will answer to the IRS at deduction time. So I have zero concerns about “laundering”.
 

Regarding charitable collectives, they are run by BODs well known to the community and are open to IRS audits and have IRS rules, such as the pay must be in line with services. That’s regulation by current laws

 

if a UND charitable collective asks a highly visible, marketable enrolled athlete to raise awareness for Anne Carlsen, Development Homes, or Community Foundation via events, appearances, fundraisers, social media etc, is that worth $10-50k? Yep. Can they openly say they will only work with UND athletes? Yes they can.  
Can the school help athletes be aware of nil opportunities? Again, yes, and they should.
 

Not complicated,  It’s just business. If I had a semi-local business I’d advertise via my favorite player’s instagram, but instead I’d gladly contribute $400/month to a charitable collective. A kid could afford to be in college and I’d be doing good work. Most collectives allow you to ACH as low as $20/month tax deductible. 
 

Now multiply that by thousands, focus it toward hockey, and we are in business 
 

 

 

 

I hope you or someone translates those ideas into action, and I will contribute the first $400/month.

But, the size of alumni base is where I also think UND losses in the long run. For everyone UND grad, BIG 10 schools have 4-5 grads that can contribute to NIL funding. 

[Benny Baker]

I know there’s various opinions on the Engelstad’s and REA’s influence at UND, but the Engelstads would definitely be one source someone should be trying to leverage NIL opportunities from.

[iramurphy]

Crater and Benny have both outlined major challenges. The school enrollments increase the chance of alumni with the resources and the interest in intercollegiate athletics. The power 5 schools especially the Big10 have an advantage of larger enrollments, but league revenues that make it easier for donors funds to be diverted to NIL use rather than day to day operating expenses. Those schools are more likely to have corporate/big business/wealthy alumni. 
UND has loyal and generous alumni. We have alums and supporters on this forum donating hundreds, thousands and in some cases tens of thousands each year to UND athletics. We have alumni donating millions but mostly those go to the Alumni foundation for endowments,,building projects or scholarships. 
UND hockey has one key donor that has been extremely generous over the years having given well over $100,000,000. The Engelstad Foundation continues their very generous support. Many of the other schools have multiple million dollar donors who support athletics. 
I wouldn’t know what their thoughts are regarding NIL.
Regardless of their interest,I believe if is in UND’s best interest to coordinate the creation of a fund including a management team, to insure everything is done legally and in compliance with NCAA guidelines in order to maintain the athletes eligibility and keep UND in compliance. A creation of a coalition of businesses and organizations willing and able participate in reimbursement to athletes for their endorsements etc. needs a central coordination team that can assist UND staff and donors in directing these resources where they are needed. 
In addition to the big schools, metro areas and league resources we shouldn’t overlook the number of east coast school alumni in large law firms, the financial world including Wall Street. I was at a Memorial Day picnic with my daughter and son-in-laws friends. The host was a former BC player making millions per year. His Dad, also a former BC player is a hedge fund guy. Among their friends is a former Quinnipiac player also making millions each year who spent around $50,000,000 last year on a boat. The smaller private schools seem to have a large number of the mega wealthy.  These are 2 schools who can generate millions from just 2 families who support hockey. 
Its a bit of a mess because the NCAA is reacting instead of leading. 
My thought would be to get a group of hockey alumni together to form a subcommittee for hockey. Many have made a few million to ten or more million. They can challenge each other for a $10,000 or more commitment from those who can and then coordinate their support with the Engelstad Foundation. The next step would be coordinating present support from folks like us with UND athletics, and businesses or organizations interested in NIL relationships. 
Football is our other sport with strong alumni support. Form a FB subcommittee to initiate a fund and attempt to establish an on going relationship with key Alumni like Marc Chipman, Tip Enebak, Dave Fennell and gauge their interest. 
Once these sub committees are formed and initial funds raised, UND can continue to coordinate and direct resources from the rest of us who can contribute $50 or $50,000 etc. 

I believe Hockey and FB could take the lead, coordinate organizational structure etc. and how to coordinate support for UND athletics. I believe these subcommittees can be the blueprint for what we do with other sports. 
You attorneys can tell me if it won’t work. I’m not sure it is viable but I believe we need to be doing something. UND may already be working on this and may be way ahead of my goofy ideas. 

[Oxbow6]

[petey23]

1 hour ago, iramurphy said:

Crater and Benny have both outlined major challenges. The school enrollments increase the chance of alumni with the resources and the interest in intercollegiate athletics. The power 5 schools especially the Big10 have an advantage of larger enrollments, but league revenues that make it easier for donors funds to be diverted to NIL use rather than day to day operating expenses. Those schools are more likely to have corporate/big business/wealthy alumni. 
UND has loyal and generous alumni. We have alums and supporters on this forum donating hundreds, thousands and in some cases tens of thousands each year to UND athletics. We have alumni donating millions but mostly those go to the Alumni foundation for endowments,,building projects or scholarships. 
UND hockey has one key donor that has been extremely generous over the years having given well over $100,000,000. The Engelstad Foundation continues their very generous support. Many of the other schools have multiple million dollar donors who support athletics. 
I wouldn’t know what their thoughts are regarding NIL.
Regardless of their interest,I believe if is in UND’s best interest to coordinate the creation of a fund including a management team, to insure everything is done legally and in compliance with NCAA guidelines in order to maintain the athletes eligibility and keep UND in compliance. A creation of a coalition of businesses and organizations willing and able participate in reimbursement to athletes for their endorsements etc. needs a central coordination team that can assist UND staff and donors in directing these resources where they are needed. 
In addition to the big schools, metro areas and league resources we shouldn’t overlook the number of east coast school alumni in large law firms, the financial world including Wall Street. I was at a Memorial Day picnic with my daughter and son-in-laws friends. The host was a former BC player making millions per year. His Dad, also a former BC player is a hedge fund guy. Among their friends is a former Quinnipiac player also making millions each year who spent around $50,000,000 last year on a boat. The smaller private schools seem to have a large number of the mega wealthy.  These are 2 schools who can generate millions from just 2 families who support hockey. 
Its a bit of a mess because the NCAA is reacting instead of leading. 
My thought would be to get a group of hockey alumni together to form a subcommittee for hockey. Many have made a few million to ten or more million. The can challenge each other for a 10,000 or more commitment from those who can and then coordinate their support with the Engelstad Foundation. The next step would be coordinating present support from folks like us with UND athletics, and businesses or organizations interested in NIL relationships. 
Football is our other sport with strong alumni support. Former a FB subcommittee to initiate a fund attempt to establish an on going relationship with key Alumni like Marc Chipman, Tip Enebak, Dave Fennell and gauge their interest. 
Once these sub committees are formed and initial funds raised, UND can continue to coordinate and direct from the rest of us who can contribute $50 or $50,000 etc. 

I believe Hockey and FB could take the lead, coordinate organizational structure etc. and how to coordinate support for UND athletics. I believe these subcommittees can be the blueprint for what we do with other sports. 
You attorneys can tell me if it won’t work. I’m not sure it is viable but I we need to be doing something. UND may already be working on this and may be way ahead of my goofy ideas. 

[fightingsioux4life]

15 hours ago, Frozen4sioux said:

I was hoping you would go out and find this HEADLINE to try and "dunk" on it., because I knew you wouldn't understand the situation or how it relates to the overall topic.

Basically someone who knows absolutely nothing about the topic,

....and doesn't read details...

would actually think there something to this extreamly recent, ongoing, presently unlitigated and toothless attempt by the NCAA to regulate the NIL landscape

Hint: It doesn't. 

It was meaningless and toothless and literally spells out how not to conduct the activity vs stopping the activity.

 

This case also has nothing to do with anything you've tried to pretend to know about the NIL landscape.

What you and everyone needs to understand is that.

NIL will be, and IS the most influential and landscape altering aspect of college athletics for the remainder of the NCAAs existence.

It's never going to not be an issue in the college athletics world again. 

Nothing can stop it. 

It is a major factor right now in the recruiting landscape of college hockey.

Combined with the portal it's never going to be a non issue again.

Having your head ignorantly in the sand isn't going to change that.

You need to take a pill and lie down.

[Kab]

If Engelstad was still living the NIL would have been taken care of .

not happening now.

who will take the lead on this? Past players, local business? 
‘how much per player would be appropriate ?

are big 10 players getting NIL?

[Cratter]

Drafted 31 overall last summer. Suddenly going to a Big Ten school. 

 

[The Sicatoka]

The MSU coach was the US NTDP coach. I suspect that has to do with Savage and Howard landing there. 

[Frozen4sioux]

8 hours ago, iramurphy said:

Crater and Benny have both outlined major challenges. The school enrollments increase the chance of alumni with the resources and the interest in intercollegiate athletics. The power 5 schools especially the Big10 have an advantage of larger enrollments, but league revenues that make it easier for donors funds to be diverted to NIL use rather than day to day operating expenses. Those schools are more likely to have corporate/big business/wealthy alumni. 
UND has loyal and generous alumni. We have alums and supporters on this forum donating hundreds, thousands and in some cases tens of thousands each year to UND athletics. We have alumni donating millions but mostly those go to the Alumni foundation for endowments,,building projects or scholarships. 
UND hockey has one key donor that has been extremely generous over the years having given well over $100,000,000. The Engelstad Foundation continues their very generous support. Many of the other schools have multiple million dollar donors who support athletics. 
I wouldn’t know what their thoughts are regarding NIL.
Regardless of their interest,I believe if is in UND’s best interest to coordinate the creation of a fund including a management team, to insure everything is done legally and in compliance with NCAA guidelines in order to maintain the athletes eligibility and keep UND in compliance. A creation of a coalition of businesses and organizations willing and able participate in reimbursement to athletes for their endorsements etc. needs a central coordination team that can assist UND staff and donors in directing these resources where they are needed. 
In addition to the big schools, metro areas and league resources we shouldn’t overlook the number of east coast school alumni in large law firms, the financial world including Wall Street. I was at a Memorial Day picnic with my daughter and son-in-laws friends. The host was a former BC player making millions per year. His Dad, also a former BC player is a hedge fund guy. Among their friends is a former Quinnipiac player also making millions each year who spent around $50,000,000 last year on a boat. The smaller private schools seem to have a large number of the mega wealthy.  These are 2 schools who can generate millions from just 2 families who support hockey. 
Its a bit of a mess because the NCAA is reacting instead of leading. 
My thought would be to get a group of hockey alumni together to form a subcommittee for hockey. Many have made a few million to ten or more million. They can challenge each other for a $10,000 or more commitment from those who can and then coordinate their support with the Engelstad Foundation. The next step would be coordinating present support from folks like us with UND athletics, and businesses or organizations interested in NIL relationships. 
Football is our other sport with strong alumni support. Form a FB subcommittee to initiate a fund and attempt to establish an on going relationship with key Alumni like Marc Chipman, Tip Enebak, Dave Fennell and gauge their interest. 
Once these sub committees are formed and initial funds raised, UND can continue to coordinate and direct resources from the rest of us who can contribute $50 or $50,000 etc. 

I believe Hockey and FB could take the lead, coordinate organizational structure etc. and how to coordinate support for UND athletics. I believe these subcommittees can be the blueprint for what we do with other sports. 
You attorneys can tell me if it won’t work. I’m not sure it is viable but I believe we need to be doing something. UND may already be working on this and may be way ahead of my goofy ideas. 

Lots of good thought here, shows knowledge of issue for sure.

Once of the most realistic issues UND (and most all other universities) will have is something you elude to... UND NIL collectives will compete with the Alumni Association, the REA, the foundations, and UND itself for the monies that are out there and available. (sports will compete against other sport too)

So a fair question is; How supportive, really supportive, is the University, the Alumni Association, and the Athletic Department going to be in the existence of the collectives.

So far the "wait and see" attitude seems to be the messege.

That's not going to be sustainable, but I fear UND is hoping the NCAA can reign in the demon and at this point, that's not possible.

[iramurphy]

30 minutes ago, Frozen4sioux said:

 

Once of the most realistic issues UND (and most all other universities) will have is something you elude to... UND NIL collectives will compete with the Alumni Association, the REA, the foundations, and UND itself for the monies that are out there and available. (sports will compete against other sport too)

So a fair question is; How supportive, really supportive, is the University, the Alumni Association, and the Athletic Department going to be in the existence of the collectives.

 

My guess is the Alumni Association wants little, if anything, to do with it. It is my limited experience with the present leadership they don’t want to lose control of any donated dollars if they can help it. I understand their position. 
The Athletic Dept is likely discussing the ramifications and potential needs with coaches and other AD around the country. It presents a huge challenge during a campaign to raise funds for Phase 2 and proposed plans for the softball field. 
The REA will likely do what they can to furnish resources and coordinate with the Engelstad Foundation. Hockey is likely our top priority. 
Just my gut feeling in answer to your question. I have no idea where we are nor what has been done. Your guess is as good as mine.