Kennedy vs. Engelstad Foundation: GF herald feature

[geaux_sioux]

36 minutes ago, UND1981 said:

No to your question.   I am very grateful for the REA, especially every time I'm in the place.

Having North Dakota at center court (as KEM wants), yes, is different than other schools.  Isn't that a good outcome?  At least that has an inkling of uniqueness.

No

[gfhockey]

Lol $10k? I’ve spent that in a weekend 

[UND1981]

11 minutes ago, snova4 said:

Some of you amaze me. The impact on the community alone because of this one time donation can't be measured. I can say, as someone that doesn't live in Grand Forks,  I've spent North of $10,000 since 2010 in Grand Forks that wouldn't have been spent without that building, and that's without attending a game the last two years (damn kids). How many more people are there like me? It's not strictly you blue bloods filling that building and the hotels each weekend.  Without that hockey program, what does Grand Forks offer to outsiders that couldn't be found in any other mid size city in the Midwest? The only thing that's unique and an attraction is a hockey program that offers a better atmosphere than any pro game I've ever been to, and it's quite likely based solely on that building. 

 

As far as other donors, I don't see anyone else ponying up over $100 million for anything, and even if they did, why would they want to? While Kennedy might be in the right, and at the end of the day a logo on the floor shouldn't matter, but you can't tell me that someone that spends that kind of money isn't going to want some kind of say no matter who they are, and the condescending response by Kennedy in the emails is going to give them pause, because if he's going to talk like that to someone that's spent that kind of money, he'll do it to anyone. 

 

Finally, yes, North Dakota is in a budget crunch, that should have been foreseen, and it's not ridiculous to request a revisit to the revenue sharing agreement, but at the same time, the university has made some extremely questionable decisions in money allocation over the past several years when this budget shortfall could have been predicted. While this will blow up in Engelstad Foundations face,  the university is going to have collateral damage from other donors because of Kennedy's arrogance. Seriously, he implied that he would sue a donor, you don't think that's not going to give other donors pause? 

+ 1,000 to your post!!!

11 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

Doesn't mean they should put their school name on the court, especially when it's two words.  Awful.  

The words "North Dakota" on the court is awful.  REALLY?? -1,000 to your post.

[snova4]

3 minutes ago, gfhockey said:

Lol $10k? I’ve spent that in a weekend 

 Good for you. 

[homer]

7 minutes ago, snova4 said:

Some of you amaze me. The impact on the community alone because of this one time donation can't be measured. I can say, as someone that doesn't live in Grand Forks,  I've spent North of $10,000 since 2010 in Grand Forks that wouldn't have been spent without that building, and that's without attending a game the last two years (damn kids). How many more people are there like me? It's not strictly you blue bloods filling that building and the hotels each weekend.  Without that hockey program, what does Grand Forks offer to outsiders that couldn't be found in any other mid size city in the Midwest? The only thing that's unique and an attraction is a hockey program that offers a better atmosphere than any pro game I've ever been to, and it's quite likely based solely on that building. 

 

As far as other donors, I don't see anyone else ponying up over $100 million for anything, and even if they did, why would they want to? While Kennedy might be in the right, and at the end of the day a logo on the floor shouldn't matter, but you can't tell me that someone that spends that kind of money isn't going to want some kind of say no matter who they are, and the condescending response by Kennedy in the emails is going to give them pause, because if he's going to talk like that to someone that's spent that kind of money, he'll do it to anyone. 

 

Finally, yes, North Dakota is in a budget crunch, that should have been foreseen, and it's not ridiculous to request a revisit to the revenue sharing agreement, but at the same time, the university has made some extremely questionable decisions in money allocation over the past several years when this budget shortfall could have been predicted. While this will blow up in Engelstad Foundations face,  the university is going to have collateral damage from other donors because of Kennedy's arrogance. Seriously, he implied that he would sue a donor, you don't think that's not going to give other donors pause? 

Not arguing the point as the Ralph is an incredible gift but you wouldn’t have come to a hockey game if it was not in that building?  

 

[petey23]

7 minutes ago, gfhockey said:

Lol $10k? I’ve spent that in a weekend 

 

[snova4]

Just now, homer said:

Not arguing the point as the Ralph is an incredible gift but you wouldn’t have come to a hockey game if it was not in that building?  

 

A 3,000 seat barn with little heat and crappy seats, no, probably not. What would the university have built? They'd never have spent anywhere near that kind of money, and I see many of you make fun of other teams rinks all season long, that would be us. 

[ChrisUND1]

3 minutes ago, homer said:

Not arguing the point as the Ralph is an incredible gift but you wouldn’t have come to a hockey game if it was not in that building?  

 

Also, I would assume that the Alerus could pick up many of the events that the Ralph gets.

[homer]

9 minutes ago, snova4 said:

Some of you amaze me. The impact on the community alone because of this one time donation can't be measured. I can say, as someone that doesn't live in Grand Forks,  I've spent North of $10,000 since 2010 in Grand Forks that wouldn't have been spent without that building, and that's without attending a game the last two years (damn kids). How many more people are there like me? It's not strictly you blue bloods filling that building and the hotels each weekend.  Without that hockey program, what does Grand Forks offer to outsiders that couldn't be found in any other mid size city in the Midwest? The only thing that's unique and an attraction is a hockey program that offers a better atmosphere than any pro game I've ever been to, and it's quite likely based solely on that building. 

 

As far as other donors, I don't see anyone else ponying up over $100 million for anything, and even if they did, why would they want to? While Kennedy might be in the right, and at the end of the day a logo on the floor shouldn't matter, but you can't tell me that someone that spends that kind of money isn't going to want some kind of say no matter who they are, and the condescending response by Kennedy in the emails is going to give them pause, because if he's going to talk like that to someone that's spent that kind of money, he'll do it to anyone. 

 

Finally, yes, North Dakota is in a budget crunch, that should have been foreseen, and it's not ridiculous to request a revisit to the revenue sharing agreement, but at the same time, the university has made some extremely questionable decisions in money allocation over the past several years when this budget shortfall could have been predicted. While this will blow up in Engelstad Foundations face,  the university is going to have collateral damage from other donors because of Kennedy's arrogance. Seriously, he implied that he would sue a donor, you don't think that's not going to give other donors pause? 

I am not in the position to give a fraction of the money many others do but I finally see Kennedy as a president trying to create an identity for UND.  Make the tough decisions, cut the fat and merge programs and build on the programs your good at.  As a donor, I would appreciate that vs the presidents we have had the last few years who roll over to anyone, anytime.  At the end of the day, I will be shocked if this doesn’t work out for the both the Englestad foundation and UND. And based on the giving the last few years above and beyond the Ralph,  it had stopped from he Englestads anyway.  

[ChrisUND1]

1 minute ago, snova4 said:

A 3,000 seat barn with little heat and crappy seats, no, probably not. What would the university have built? They'd never have spent anywhere near that kind of money, and I see many of you make fun of other teams rinks all season long, that would be us. 

Those of us who are a little older remember the old Winter Sports Building, the "old Ralph".  It held 6067.  I would guess that if UND had a new rink, it would have been that or more, probably around the 10K that the new mariucci was built to hold.  Wouldn't have been as opulent, but it would have had an ice sheet and seats.

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

2 hours ago, fightingsioux4life said:

The gift was delivered back in 2001. It isn't like we are getting tens of millions of dollars from them annually.

Probably ten without the s every year. 

6,000 seats more than the Winter Sports Center (later named Engelstad Arena) that was on 2nd Ave N.

6,000 and x $45 seat x 19 home games (that is less the 2 playoff) plus concessions is $5M.

What these additional 6,000 fans add in purchases to the community? More CC donations? etc.

[neoflex]

11 hours ago, geaux_sioux said:

We don’t need them. We’d probably have a healthier athletics program without them. They aren’t the only ones with money.

Unfortunately, we do. Most of UND larger donations either come from the older alumni and a substantial come from endowments and donations posthumous.  The UND champions club has done well in recent years (partially due to the success of the hockey program and donations that were procured at the NCAA playoff and championship games at the alumni gatherings - i.e. Tampa Bay, which alone generated over $75K), but I'm curious to know if the Engelstad pledge is part of the champions club annual reporting or just a donation to the school. Nonetheless, even though there are supporters of the new nickname,  the older alumni who donate purely from an athletic foundation perspective are not giving as they had. I've attended several champions club gatherings, and there are still a lot of hurt/bruised feelings with regards to the new logo (mostly upset with the process of getting the name), not to mention the loss of the baseball, golf, swimming and women's' hockey programs. It kind of made for a perfect storm of bad PR. 

Donations from BIG donors are very hard to come by. The school of medicine and aviation have done well, but donors like the Engelstads are often once in a lifetime. I'm very thankful for what they have done, but it certainly doesn't mean we need to kowtow to their demands, but it certainly means we should listen and take into consideration there concerns.  Hopefully M. Kennedy and K. Engelstad can resolve this civilly with out further airing it in the public arena. 

[homer]

6 minutes ago, snova4 said:

A 3,000 seat barn with little heat and crappy seats, no, probably not. What would the university have built? They'd never have spent anywhere near that kind of money, and I see many of you make fun of other teams rinks all season long, that would be us. 

You don’t know that?  It would not have been the Ralph but no one knows what would have happened and anything is speculation.  I always lose count of how many NHL players UND has along with potential donors like Sanford chopping to get into UND.  There is other money that could have been put together for something but again, I am only speculating. 

Other programs have won plenty of games over the last 15 years without an arena like the Ralph. 

[homer]

5 minutes ago, ChrisUND1 said:

Also, I would assume that the Alerus could pick up many of the events that the Ralph gets.

Not many.  Sound in the Alerus isn’t great. Grand Forks is in a great spot to have two facilities that they do.  I just don’t buy the Ralph being the sole reason you would come back to Grand Forks and spend $10,000.  

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

8 minutes ago, snova4 said:

A 3,000 seat barn with little heat and crappy seats, no, probably not. What would the university have built? They'd never have spent anywhere near that kind of money, and I see many of you make fun of other teams rinks all season long, that would be us. 

I went to 2 years in the Barn, then U had a hockey build drive and in 1972 opened the 6,000 seat Winter Sports Center.

[snova4]

1 minute ago, homer said:

You don’t know that?  It would not have been the Ralph but no one knows what would have happened and anything is speculation.  I always lose count of how many NHL players UND has along with potential donors like Sanford chopping to get into UND.  There is other money that could have been put together for something but again, I am only speculating. 

Mother programs have won plenty of games over the last 15 years without an arena like the Ralph. 

 While you're right, the program would have done well still, you're still not acknowledging the impact that is the attraction of the Ralph. I've talked to people that are from New York that have been at a game just because of the reputation of the arena. As good as the program is, those people aren't coming because they like North Dakota in the winter, and they aren't spending dollars in Grand Forks without the building. 

[Oxbow6]

17 minutes ago, homer said:

Not arguing the point as the Ralph is an incredible gift but you wouldn’t have come to a hockey game if it was not in that building?  

 

Does the Ralph only host UND men's hockey games?   Again if you throw a dart at least hit the wall.  Goodness...................................

[snova4]

2 minutes ago, homer said:

Not many.  Sound in the Alerus isn’t great. Grand Forks is in a great spot to have two facilities that they do.  I just don’t buy the Ralph being the sole reason you would come back to Grand Forks and spend $10,000.  

I come for the hockey games. I spend money on hotels, dining, and entertainment. Would the hockey program still be great without the Ralph, maybe, maybe not. There's a lot to factor in that may not have been without the building. Is it the sole reason guys come to Grand Forks to play, no, but it sure doesn't hurt. Maybe a couple recruits don't by in without a pro arena in a college program. Maybe without those recruits the program isn't as good. Maybe the program doesn't maintain the level of excellence we've come to expect, and it's not the national titan it is. You can't tell me that during the 90s the future didn't look bleak. Granted we got 2 championships at the end which boosted appeal, but l firmly believe we don't win some of the "blue chippa" recruiting battles with a mediocre arena. 

[UND1983]

The gift of the arena is the greatest gift ever, essentially.  No can argue that.  Gold Standard.

The contract is another thing - was fine.  But, then UND moved to D1 and everything changed budget wise - like 100%.  UND is simply asking to skew the contract a bit more towards the current climate, like most contracts do.  Its been 17 years with no change!  

[homer]

2 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

Does the Ralph only host UND men's hockey games?   Again if you throw a dart at least hit the wall.  Goodness...................................

They don’t and I acknowledged that.  You may want to read his post I replied to...... goodness. 

Ive acknowledges everything the Ralph does, it’s a top notch facility.  However, for years I have been in Fargo complaining about UND not having a president that puts the best interest of UND above all else like FU has.  Now they have someone who seems to go there and people want him to just roll over like the past presidents did.  

[UNDColorado]

14 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

Does the Ralph only host UND men's hockey games?   Again if you throw a dart at least hit the wall.  Goodness...................................

Not necessarily, could be a terrible throw 

[jdub27]

55 minutes ago, snova4 said:

Finally, yes, North Dakota is in a budget crunch, that should have been foreseen, and it's not ridiculous to request a revisit to the revenue sharing agreement, but at the same time, the university has made some extremely questionable decisions in money allocation over the past several years when this budget shortfall could have been predicted. While this will blow up in Engelstad Foundations face,  the university is going to have collateral damage from other donors because of Kennedy's arrogance. Seriously, he implied that he would sue a donor, you don't think that's not going to give other donors pause? 

While I won't argue that money hasn't been misspent along the way, there is no chance that anyone saw the multiple rounds of budget cuts to the degree that were required.

His "implication to sue" was simply to remind the RE BoD that the RE Arena Inc is to operate in a way that is most beneficial to the University of North Dakota as the sole financial beneficiary. They are literally required by the their bylaws to do so and pointing out that he feels they might not be doing that seems like a fair comment to make. The Engelstad Foundation is free to do as they please (and MK literally went out of his way in every e-mail to thank them and show gratitude for what they have done), however the REA does not have that latitude to have free reign to do as they please.

[UND-FB-FAN]

1 hour ago, Oxbow6 said:

How did you conjecture all that from his one post?    The post of his you are referencing is factual in all 3 points he makes.  There was nothing mentioned of inequality, logo, or revenue distribution. If you are going to present an argument at least keep in on the rails as to what was presented.

Please don't hyper-focus. Ironically, that's part of the issue at hand. The comments I made were in relation to this overall issue, not just the post I quoted. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

1 hour ago, snova4 said:

Some of you amaze me. The impact on the community alone because of this one time donation can't be measured. I can say, as someone that doesn't live in Grand Forks,  I've spent North of $10,000 since 2010 in Grand Forks that wouldn't have been spent without that building, and that's without attending a game the last two years (damn kids). How many more people are there like me? It's not strictly you blue bloods filling that building and the hotels each weekend.  Without that hockey program, what does Grand Forks offer to outsiders that couldn't be found in any other mid size city in the Midwest? The only thing that's unique and an attraction is a hockey program that offers a better atmosphere than any pro game I've ever been to, and it's quite likely based solely on that building. 

 

As far as other donors, I don't see anyone else ponying up over $100 million for anything, and even if they did, why would they want to? While Kennedy might be in the right, and at the end of the day a logo on the floor shouldn't matter, but you can't tell me that someone that spends that kind of money isn't going to want some kind of say no matter who they are, and the condescending response by Kennedy in the emails is going to give them pause, because if he's going to talk like that to someone that's spent that kind of money, he'll do it to anyone. 

 

Finally, yes, North Dakota is in a budget crunch, that should have been foreseen, and it's not ridiculous to request a revisit to the revenue sharing agreement, but at the same time, the university has made some extremely questionable decisions in money allocation over the past several years when this budget shortfall could have been predicted. While this will blow up in Engelstad Foundations face,  the university is going to have collateral damage from other donors because of Kennedy's arrogance. Seriously, he implied that he would sue a donor, you don't think that's not going to give other donors pause? 

Although this post makes perfect sense, it is missing the overall issue of equality and mutual benefit within the entire athletic department, particularly for the sports that most other universities emphasize.

The UND-REA revenue sharing agreement is outdated; that's all. The terms of the agreement need to be renegotiated for the present DI landscape. No one here is trying to say the REA or the UND hockey program is the primary problem; actually, its part of the solution. 

The budget crisis cannot be entirely explained by UND misspending; that is shortsighted. 

Very few people, if anyone, are advocating the hockey program or the REA is a bad thing. It's the way it is presently utilized in the context of the overall athletic department that is to be debated. 

My previous post again applies.

 

[snova4]

4 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Although this post makes perfect sense, it is missing the overall issue of equality and mutual benefit within the entire athletic department, particularly for the sports that most other universities emphasize. 

My previous post again applies.

 

 Do you think NDSU treats the football team equally as the tennis team? The sports that most other universities emphasize aren't the ones driving the revenue bus at UND.