Kennedy vs. Engelstad Foundation: GF herald feature

[AJS]

One thing that I hope most people take from this story, is that at the end of the day, Kennedy was trying to do what's best for the University of North Dakota. His tactics or how he approached the situation clearly didn't work / could have been handled better, but he saw something in the contract or how things were being handled that was a red flag.

What's really frustrating, is to take a step forward as a University, they need a President with a vision who is willing to lead. It might not be popular at times, but I'd much rather have someone who's ambitious, then someone who would have looked over the contract, noticed a red flag and didn't say anything. It's much easier to sit back, not say anything and go along with their day. The problem for Kennedy is it appears there's too many who just want the status quo, would rather have him just bury his head.

 

[Csonked Out]

5 minutes ago, AJS said:

One thing that I hope most people take from this story, is that at the end of the day, Kennedy was trying to do what's best for the University of North Dakota. His tactics or how he approached the situation clearly didn't work / could have been handled better, but he saw something in the contract or how things were being handled that was a red flag.

What's really frustrating, is to take a step forward as a University, they need a President with a vision who is willing to lead. It might not be popular at times, but I'd much rather have someone who's ambitious, then someone who would have looked over the contract, noticed a red flag and didn't say anything. It's much easier to sit back, not say anything and go along with their day. The problem for Kennedy is it appears there's too many who just want the status quo, would rather have him just bury his head.

 

yup, and I got dumped on last night for suggesting it could be a money issue. When someone goes to the media and does something this aggressively, there is almost always an alterior motive. 

[jdub27]

1 hour ago, tnt said:

Ralph's own quote said the gift was to continue to make UND the top hockey program in the country, which is what his goal was when he gave it.

Both were stated goals. It appears the current arrangement is leaning much more towards one than the other.

 

44 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Yes, I would like more information on that as well.
That number (52%) seems awfully steep as a handle to sell the tickets (to an event not in your facility). 

Clarification, the 52% is considered the "rent" for the facility. The REA also charges UND for ticket handling/box office management on a separate line item, which makes the part about football ticket revenue being included all the more controversial. There is a legitimate argument that some funds are being funneled away from football because of this. 

[coachdags]

30 minutes ago, AJS said:

One thing that I hope most people take from this story, is that at the end of the day, Kennedy was trying to do what's best for the University of North Dakota. His tactics or how he approached the situation clearly didn't work / could have been handled better, but he saw something in the contract or how things were being handled that was a red flag.

What's really frustrating, is to take a step forward as a University, they need a President with a vision who is willing to lead. It might not be popular at times, but I'd much rather have someone who's ambitious, then someone who would have looked over the contract, noticed a red flag and didn't say anything. It's much easier to sit back, not say anything and go along with their day. The problem for Kennedy is it appears there's too many who just want the status quo, would rather have him just bury his head.

 

Agreed on some points, but a leader also needs to understand the difference between leading and dictating. President Kennedy was also looking for a $50,000 year bartender/party host for his wife while UND was cutting programs and staff. My understanding is the contract between UND and REA is very one sided, takes care of Men's Hockey at REA 1st and foremost. will be interesting if that can change before 2030, not sure this President has the skills necessary to do it. 

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

Doesn't the Ralph pay the city for the Alerus rent?

 

[UNDColorado]

33 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Both were stated goals. It appears the current arrangement is leaning much more towards one than the other.

 

Clarification, the 52% is considered the "rent" for the facility. The REA also charges UND for ticket handling/box office management on a separate line item, which makes the part about football ticket revenue being included all the more controversial. There is a legitimate argument that some funds are being funneled away from football because of this. 

Thanks for this info on the 52%. I was wondering about this as well. If i am understanding this correctly the REA simply handle's football tickets, then how is a 52% share of ticket revenue even remotely realistic? Since the football team plays in a city owned venue, I have to assume we are paying rent to them as well.

Edit- Someone please correct me if i am understanding this incorrectly.

[Siouxperman8]

10 hours ago, Frozen4sioux said:

Thats not an insult. How possibly could it be?... That is just the true and rightful levels of success that could possibly be achieved. 

Will football ever compete in top of sport division, no. 

Will basketball ever in our wildest dreams compete past the first weekend of the tourney, no.

Its not insultung, its just the truth.

True or not true wasn't the point.  Your comments were intended to explain how hockey is superior to other sports.  If you don't see that your comments stoke fan base division I can't help you.

[forksandspoons]

1 hour ago, The Sicatoka said:

The Herald was against UND accepting Engelstad money before it was for it. Conversely, the Engelstads treated the news media --the Herald in particular -- like the plague until a few days ago. 

The Herald was for removing all traces of the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo before it was against it. 

The Herald didn't give a < bleep > about UND women's hockey until Kennedy cut it. 

The Herald was all for a competent, shake-it-up UND president until he was too competent, and got a look somewhere else.  

 

Herald gonna Herald. 
 

I recall the Herald going after Kennedy pretty hard during the time the IAC made athletes beg to keep their sports in a room full of people, then said no sports were going to be cut, then cut sports a few months later... That was not long into his presidency, so I guess in my eyes the Herald was never "all for" him. 

[Teeder11]

37 minutes ago, coachdags said:

Agreed on some points, but a leader also needs to understand the difference between leading and dictating. President Kennedy was also looking for a $50,000 year bartender/party host for his wife while UND was cutting programs and staff. My understanding is the contract between UND and REA is very one sided, takes care of Men's Hockey at REA 1st and foremost. will be interesting if that can change before 2030, not sure this President has the skills necessary to do it. 

This is another glaring example of how the way the Herald frames a narrative is what sticks. Having worked at the Herald and alongside these outstanding reporters, who are in the trenches everyday, I am mildy disappointed in two things: (1) UND's insistence to go passive on these things and just let the narrative hang out there and fester instead of challenging the assertions and correcting the record, and (2) the failure of the reporting staff to give the full picture of what actually is the case instead of leading with and only with the slice of the job that would garner the most outrage.

The "bartender/party planner (for president's wife =this element is the most fake newsiest of the whole thing) is a very small slice of the actual administrative assistant position at issue, probably 5 percent of this person's job, if that. This person's duties impacts the entire University in many ways when it comes to ceremonies, events and routine high-touch visits to campus. That said... when this person is performing these duties, mostly at The Ralph, it is to help cater to dignitaries (donors, political leaders, famous visitors, etc.) for the sole purpose of placing the best possible professional light on UND. Sure, these folks can get their own drinks and shrimpkabobs but why not extend a little class once in a while and do whatever possible  to give the appearance of a first-class operation -- again when it's only less than 5 percent of a person's duties. 

Oh, and BTW, it wasn't a new position, as has been asserted by many, rather it was a replacement hire after the previous person in this role retired after years of doing the exact same duties, in good times and bad, with no hint of concern by anyone.

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

5 hours ago, sprig said:

Season tickets for hockey are not face value.  They are $465 (45 for the quarterfinal 2 of  playoff series). Your math would equal 810 per seat. 

Season football tickets, 95 for  5 games.

Thx, will make the adjustments.

UND faculty and employees get a discount on season tickets. Any idea on how many of these?

 

[Teeder11]

31 minutes ago, forksandspoons said:

I recall the Herald going after Kennedy pretty hard during the time he made athletes beg to keep their sports in a room full of people, then said no sports were going to be cut, then cut sports a few months later... That was not long into his presidency, so I guess in my eyes the Herald was never "all for" him. 

This was a faculty-led IAC production, not the president. Before this, Kennedy did ask the IAC to thoroughly "examine" UND's athletics' offerings (see below) but not the manner in which it should be done.

He did, however, attend the meeting that you reference, as he should have, as a very interested party in the decision making process. The IAC gave him a front and center seat for the presentations. That image was on the front page of the Herald the next day. This and the reporting may have cemented the perception that it was Kennedy that demanded the presentations.

EDIT:  Oops forgot to include the excerpt from the campus message from Aug. 16, 2016...here it is:

I am asking a subgroup of the elected Intercollegiate Athletics Committee (IAC) to examine UND Athletics to make sure we have an athletics program that best fits the University of North Dakota in terms of a number of factors, including the sports we participate in, conference participation, the number of athletes that we serve, and the cost of the programs.  The IAC serves as an advisory committee to University Senate and my office, making recommendations on matters pertaining to institutional control of the athletics program; the academic and financial integrity of intercollegiate athletics; the academic and personal well-being of student-athletes; gender equity; non-discrimination and diversity; and the accountability of the athletics program to the values and mission of the University. 

This action is a continuation of a conversation started by Interim President Ed Schafer, who suggested that the University take a hard look at our athletics program with an eye to ensuring we have the right number and mix of Division I athletic programs. I want to conclude that process by the end of the calendar year.

I want to be clear: I am pro-Athletics. I am proud of our student-athletes, who are successful as athletes and who perform well in the classroom. They are also engaged in the community, contributing more than 9,500 hours of service in FY16.  But I also want to be clear that we need to make sure we have Athletics program that is the right fit for the University. I appreciate the committee helping us with this important task.

[Oxbow6]

I'm waiting for some here to give Kennedy credit for getting the 3 American hostages freed from North Korea too........................................

[UND1983]

2 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

I'm waiting for some here to give Kennedy credit for getting the 3 American hostages freed from North Korea too........................................

The REA already confirmed that Kris McGarry was on the front lines for it and made it happen.  Trump only worked the phones.

[forksandspoons]

6 minutes ago, Teeder11 said:

This was a faculty-led IAC production, not the president. Before this, Kennedy did ask the IAC to thoroughly "examine" UND's athletics' offerings (see below) but not the manner in which it should be done.

He did, however, attend the meeting that you reference, as he should have, as a very interested party in the decision making process. The IAC gave him a front and center seat for the presentations. That image was on the front page of the Herald the next day. This and the reporting may have cemented the perception that it was Kennedy that demanded the presentations.

EDIT:  Oops forgot to include the excerpt from the campus message from Aug.; 16, 2016...here it is:

I am asking a subgroup of the elected Intercollegiate Athletics Committee (IAC) to examine UND Athletics to make sure we have an athletics program that best fits the University of North Dakota in terms of a number of factors, including the sports we participate in, conference participation, the number of athletes that we serve, and the cost of the programs.  The IAC serves as an advisory committee to University Senate and my office, making recommendations on matters pertaining to institutional control of the athletics program; the academic and financial integrity of intercollegiate athletics; the academic and personal well-being of student-athletes; gender equity; non-discrimination and diversity; and the accountability of the athletics program to the values and mission of the University. 

This action is a continuation of a conversation started by Interim President Ed Schafer, who suggested that the University take a hard look at our athletics program with an eye to ensuring we have the right number and mix of Division I athletic programs. I want to conclude that process by the end of the calendar year.

I want to be clear: I am pro-Athletics. I am proud of our student-athletes, who are successful as athletes and who perform well in the classroom. They are also engaged in the community, contributing more than 9,500 hours of service in FY16.  But I also want to be clear that we need to make sure we have Athletics program that is the right fit for the University. I appreciate the committee helping us with this important task.

There, changed it to IAC. I was refuting what I put in bold, nothing else. 

[Teeder11]

Just now, forksandspoons said:

There, changed it to IAC. I was refuting what I put in bold, nothing else. 

Thanks!  Appreciate the accuracy.

[The Sicatoka]

1 hour ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

Sic for the win!!!  

Personally I'd love to claim it
Can't however.
Might have had help.  

[Siouxperfan7]

Let me get this straight.  Engelstad Foundation/REA Inc gets 52% of all ticket revenue at UND.  Kennedy notices this and wants to negotiate something better.  McGarry gets offended by Kennedy even bringing up the issue and complains to the Herald, and somehow Kennedy is the bad guy?  Does that about sum it up?!!

[UNDBIZ]

2 minutes ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

Let me get this straight.  Engelstad Foundation/REA Inc gets 52% of all ticket revenue at UND.  Kennedy notices this and wants to negotiate something better.  McGarry gets offended by Kennedy even bringing up the issue and complains to the Herald, and somehow Kennedy is the bad guy?  Does that about sum it up?!!

Well at least according to McGarry, Kennedy was tactless in his attempts at renegotiation.

[UND1983]

Just now, UNDBIZ said:

Well at least according to McGarry, Kennedy was tactless in his attempts at renegotiation.

So, she flew to Grand Forks and met with the Herald in person because Kennedy was "tactless".  what the....

[The Sicatoka]

< glancing BIZ's way >

Soooo, ... has anyone looked at the Form 990s of the entities* that are responsible for and run REA?
What do their balance sheets and such look like? 

I'll hang up and listen. 

 

*The entities:
UND Arena Services  EIN: 14-1846178 
UND Sports Facilities EIN: 36-4511153 
Ralph Engelstad Arene EIN: 11-3666663
 

[Csonked Out]

2 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

Well at least according to McGarry, Kennedy was tactless in his attempts at renegotiation.

she is the same person that pulled a $14 million gift to her alma matter because they forced out the president in March that she wanted. She seems like she tries to control things on a university level with the foundation gifts and endowment funds.

[jdub27]

Two main points to make:

• The sports that use (used) the REA (MIH, WIH, MBB, WBB, VB) all made sense to include in the ticket revenue split since that is what is considered "rent". Obviously MIH carries the majority of that weight and subsidize some of the other users of the facility, which is fine. However the loss of WIH had minimal impact to ticket revenue stream that was split and has provided the REA with 5-6 extra weekends per year to book other events they didn't have prior and cut down on staffing costs, which they were losing money on due to lack of attendance at those events. UND is using the facility less overall. Renegotiating the contract because of that change is very logical.
• I'm not sure why football ticket revenue was ever included in the agreement, particularly when UND is billed separately for ticket administration services provided by the REA. There's absolutely no arguing the REA has been a net positive for UND. The relationship is intentionally convoluted, mainly for tax purposes and allowing the REA to do some things UND would not be able to. That being said, re-looking at how things have been operating isn't a bad thing and there are some changes that likely should be made.

[Frozen4sioux]

12 minutes ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

Let me get this straight.  Engelstad Foundation/REA Inc gets 52% of all ticket revenue at UND.  Kennedy notices this and wants to negotiate something better.  McGarry gets offended by Kennedy even bringing up the issue and complains to the Herald, and somehow Kennedy is the bad guy?  Does that about sum it up?!!

Thats reverting back to initial assumptions.

You have no idea, nor do I, what the specific issue Kennedy has with the agreement or what his objective was. 

 

Thats is what we want to find out, If it were that simple UND could just publicly state, We feel 52% is too high. We want to see 35% or whatever....

It could be as simple as that or could be much more complex, But it looks obviois that prior interactions have strained relations before the agreement issue was raised.

 

[Siouxperfan7]

1 minute ago, Frozen4sioux said:

Thats reverting back to initial assumptions.

You have no idea, nor do I, what the specific issue Kennedy has with the agreement or what his objective was. 

 

Thats is what we want to find out, If it were that simple UND could just publicly state, We feel 52% is too high. We want to see 35% or whatever....

It could be as simple as that or could be much more complex, But it looks obviois that prior interactions have strained relations before the agreement issue was raised.

 

UND has no obligation to make these conversations public.  Nor should they.  Kennedy certainly could if he wanted too, but I am guessing all discussions with donors are private.  McGarry has the right to publically talk about them, but is most likely leaving out all the details to fit her narrative.  I doubt Kennedy wants to have him and UND throw the Engelstad Foundation under the bus over something that is a private matter.  McGarry made it public.

[Frozen4sioux]

1 minute ago, jdub27 said:

Two main points to make:

• The sports that use (used) the REA (MIH, WIH, MBB, WBB, VB) all made sense to include in the ticket revenue split is that was considered "rent". Obviously MIH carries the majority of that weight and subsidize some of the other users of the facility, which is fine. However the loss of WIH had minimal impact to ticket revenue stream that was split and has provided the REA with 5-6 extra weekends per year to book other events they didn't have prior and cut down on staffing costs, which they were losing money on due to lack of attendance at those events. UND is using the facility less overall. Renegotiating the contract because of that change is very logical.
• I'm not sure why football ticket revenue was ever included in the agreement, particularly when UND is billed separately for ticket administration services provided by the REA. There's absolutely no arguing the REA has been a net positive for UND. That being said, re-looking at how things have been operating isn't a bad thing.

That is reasonable and well explained.

So the real changes stem from WIH, The lack of ice usage time and the lack of gameday arena use. 

The locker room facilities were just flipped to soccer and softball correct?

The points you just laid out do not seem unreasonable at all to revist.