The Sicatoka Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 As someone stated here yesterday: Be careful tossing around "Title IX". UND was unbalanced for M/F participation before baseball was cut. UND had too many FEMALE athletes. Then they cut baseball making bad worse. UND was prime for a Title IX suit ... from MALE athletes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 1 minute ago, UNDBIZ said: So I've been underestimating it. $80,000.... Yes, EIGHTY THOUSAND DOLLARS.... per WIH player per year. How does exchange into the Forint or Euro? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jdub27 Posted March 30, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted March 30, 2017 8 minutes ago, Old Time Hockey said: If someone from outside the area asks you about the UND basketball team, and you reply that we are a championship level program because we won the big sky, you get laughed out of the bar. Yet way more people know that UND won the Big Sky in basketball than would know if UND won a women's hockey championship and it isn't even close. 8 minutes ago, Old Time Hockey said: Its not the reason I am disappointed the WH program was cut, but it was the only other sport aside from MH that had a legitimate chance at a national championship. What really bothers me is that it impacts girls hockey into the youth level. Girls hockey is still a relatively new sport. When UND cut the program, it was kind of a slap in the face to all girls that play hockey in the area. While very, very few girls would actually would play for UND, the dream and role models were there for the local kids. So you think it would have been fair to cut 2 or 3 other sports instead of women's hockey? That is what it would have taken (minimum) to reach the same number dollar amount. Why is women's hockey a sacred cow and allowed to lose over $2 million per year to support 25 student-athletes? The budget cuts had to come from somewhere and anyone who takes an objective look at the numbers understands this. The fact that they made the choice that effects the least amount of student athletes should be applauded. Losing S&D was a much bigger loss in terms of ROI and participation and their costs was somewhere between 1/5 and 1/6 that of women's hockey. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxphan27 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 10 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said: Shameless stolen from an email from a friend: The irony of title IX has always been the fact women don't support women's sports. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoolGuy2K Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 1 hour ago, UND1983 said: Where is the petition link? 14 posts before this one I just quoted from you. Or, top of page 9. I hope you're not going to sign it along with the 6 other people. Lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDBIZ Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 11 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said: How does exchange into the Forint or Euro? 8.9 MILLION Japanese Yen per WIH player per year! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Yote 53 Posted March 30, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted March 30, 2017 As to UND Football. If you are in contention for a MVFC title you are going to be an odds on favorite to win a National Championship. UND won the BSC this past year and champions from that conference have gone on to win a Natty. UND is not a longshot away from winning a NC in football. USD isn't for that matter. Because of the company we keep in conference and the level we play at in conference, once you make it to the playoffs you have a shot at winning a title. Look at Youngstown this year, finished 3rd in the conference and made it to the title game. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-FB-FAN Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 24 minutes ago, Old Time Hockey said: I define Championship level programs as those that have a legitimate chance at winning a national championship. Not winning a Slummit League or a Big Sky league. Does Oregon have a legitimate chance at winning a football championship? Yep Does Gonzaga have a legitimate chance at winning a basketball championship? Yep Does UND honestly have a chance in any sport aside from hockey? Except for the football long shot, none come close! If someone from outside the area asks you about the UND basketball team, and you reply that we are a championship level program because we won the big sky, you get laughed out of the bar. Its not the reason I am disappointed the WH program was cut, but it was the only other sport aside from MH that had a legitimate chance at a national championship. What really bothers me is that it impacts girls hockey into the youth level. Girls hockey is still a relatively new sport. When UND cut the program, it was kind of a slap in the face to all girls that play hockey in the area. While very, very few girls would actually would play for UND, the dream and role models were there for the local kids. What I still don't understand is how Bemidji, St Cloud, and Duluth can make it work, but we can't? The softball team travels much more. Do they have that many less scholarships? Are they coaches paid much less? Could the WH program made cuts to get them in a better position? So UND should just sponsor men's and women's hockey and football? - Now that is laughable! UND's men's basketball program did win the Big Sky Conference and they participated in the NCAA tournament which was viewed by 1.4 million people. So, your standards are flawed, because women's hockey wouldn't even draw 10% of that viewership even if they were a national championship team. Heck, even UND's men's hockey has difficulty reaching viewing numbers like that. If you tell someone that UND tightly played the University of Arizona's top 5 men's basketball team, and that UND is the alma mater of NBA great Phil Jackson, you would have a positive conversation with said person outside of the area. If you want to work odds and be fair, @Old Time Hockey, that "outside of the area person" probably wouldn't want to talk hockey and would rather talk football and basketball (based on national interest levels). Also, Bemidji, St. Cloud, and Duluth are Division II programs that require less program-wide funding. That one is not hard. - EDIT: Also, Title IX compliance consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawksHoops Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Say Anything has the 2016 financials for WH. At the bottom of the "article". http://www.sayanythingblog.com/entry/unds-womens-hockey-program-lost-1-9-million-2016/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cberkas Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 21 minutes ago, Old Time Hockey said: I define Championship level programs as those that have a legitimate chance at winning a national championship. Not winning a Slummit League or a Big Sky league. Does Oregon have a legitimate chance at winning a football championship? Yep Does Gonzaga have a legitimate chance at winning a basketball championship? Yep Does UND honestly have a chance in any sport aside from hockey? Except for the football long shot, none come close! If someone from outside the area asks you about the UND basketball team, and you reply that we are a championship level program because we won the big sky, you get laughed out of the bar. Its not the reason I am disappointed the WH program was cut, but it was the only other sport aside from MH that had a legitimate chance at a national championship. What really bothers me is that it impacts girls hockey into the youth level. Girls hockey is still a relatively new sport. When UND cut the program, it was kind of a slap in the face to all girls that play hockey in the area. While very, very few girls would actually would play for UND, the dream and role models were there for the local kids. What I still don't understand is how Bemidji, St Cloud, and Duluth can make it work, but we can't? The softball team travels much more. Do they have that many less scholarships? Are they coaches paid much less? Could the WH program made cuts to get them in a better position? From my understanding is Bemidji St., St. Cloud, and Duluth have to have a women's D1 team because they have a men's D1 team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InHeavenThereIsNoBeer Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said: So UND should just sponsor men's and women's hockey and football? - Now that is laughable! UND's men's basketball program did win the Big Sky Conference and they participated in the NCAA tournament which was viewed by 1.4 million people. So, your standards are flawed, because women's hockey wouldn't even draw 10% of that viewership even if they were a national championship team. Heck, even UND's men's hockey has difficulty reaching viewing numbers like that. If you tell someone that UND tightly played the University of Arizona's top 5 men's basketball team, and that UND is the alma mater of NBA great Phil Jackson, you would have a positive conversation with said person outside of the area. If you want to work odds and be fair, @Old Time Hockey, that "outside of the area person" probably wouldn't want to talk hockey and would rather talk football and basketball (based on national interest levels). Also, Bemidji, St. Cloud, and Duluth are Division II programs that require less program-wide funding. That one is not hard. To be fair, a tape delayed national title game for the 2016 Women's Frozen Four drew 651,000 so almost half of that 1.4 million number. http://www.startribune.com/frozen-four-title-game-ratings-dip-again-but-hit-good-numbers-on-espn2/375466641/ That number surprised me. On the flip side, viewer numbers do not translate directly to $$$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawksHoops Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, InHeavenThereIsNoBeer said: To be fair, a tape delayed national title game for the 2016 Women's Frozen Four drew 651,000 so almost half of that 1.4 million number. http://www.startribune.com/frozen-four-title-game-ratings-dip-again-but-hit-good-numbers-on-espn2/375466641/ That number surprised me. On the flip side, viewer numbers do not translate directly to $$$. Those are surprising numbers. Likely aided by the broadcast being on free (CBS) tv. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDBIZ Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 12 minutes ago, HawksHoops said: Say Anything has the 2016 financials for WH. At the bottom of the "article". http://www.sayanythingblog.com/entry/unds-womens-hockey-program-lost-1-9-million-2016/ It's sad and disappointing that we need to go to a blog to get the facts on the issue. From the numbers there, of the $210k in WIH revenue, $160k was direct institutional support (I assume that's money from UND). So really, it's $50k in revenue and the team lost closer to $2.1 million in FY 2016. Also, there is no way the $3,100 for marketing and promotion includes all the marketing and promotion expenses incurred by the REA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said: It's sad and disappointing that we need to go to a blog to get the facts on the issue. From the numbers there, of the $210k in WIH revenue, $160k was direct institutional support (I assume that's money from UND). So really, it's $50k in revenue and the team lost closer to $2.1 million in FY 2016. Also, there is no way the $3,100 for marketing and promotion includes all the marketing and promotion expenses incurred by the REA. Direct institutional support is money that could've gone to updating a chemistry lab. It's UND discretionary funds that they aimed to Athletics. And yes, where are the numbers? They tell the story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawksHoops Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said: It's sad and disappointing that we need to go to a blog to get the facts on the issue. From the numbers there, of the $210k in WIH revenue, $160k was direct institutional support (I assume that's money from UND). So really, it's $50k in revenue and the team lost closer to $2.1 million in FY 2016. Also, there is no way the $3,100 for marketing and promotion includes all the marketing and promotion expenses incurred by the REA. I agree. That's information I would expect to be covered by the local reporter assigned to the sport. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Time Hockey Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said: It's sad and disappointing that we need to go to a blog to get the facts on the issue. From the numbers there, of the $210k in WIH revenue, $160k was direct institutional support (I assume that's money from UND). So really, it's $50k in revenue and the team lost closer to $2.1 million in FY 2016. Also, there is no way the $3,100 for marketing and promotion includes all the marketing and promotion expenses incurred by the REA. The $160k was probably merchandise revenue sharing and other such dollars. Probably too much benefit given to most programs through this funding source, but a way to soften the blow. I liked seeing the financial statement for WH. Would like to see all sports financial statements as well. If we are going to take shots at one program, I would like to see all programs get the same scrutiny! WH is an easy target because of the lack of ticket revenue, but let's look at all of the other programs to get a true overview. Does anyone know how to find the reports similar to what Port added to his article? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiSioux Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 11 hours ago, Sioux>Bison said: If everyone who complained today that was men's hockey was cut attended one game last year there would have been thousands in attendance right? If you are one of the outraged people then why didn't you attend a game? WiSioux did you make it to a game or have you ever went to one? I have attended numerous women's hockey games when I lived in Grand Forks and when I am in town to watch football/men's hockey. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, Old Time Hockey said: but let's look at all of the other programs to get a true overview. Frankly, if taxpayers knew the real cost of athletics at public institutions athletics would be out of public institutions in about ... < snap >. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawksHoops Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, Old Time Hockey said: The $160k was probably merchandise revenue sharing and other such dollars. Probably too much benefit given to most programs through this funding source, but a way to soften the blow. I liked seeing the financial statement for WH. Would like to see all sports financial statements as well. If we are going to take shots at one program, I would like to see all programs get the same scrutiny! WH is an easy target because of the lack of ticket revenue, but let's look at all of the other programs to get a true overview. Does anyone know how to find the reports similar to what Port added to his article? I agree that it would be interesting to see the financials of all sports. Port got this from a "legislator in Bismarck". Unfortunately, it seems that this info is hard to find otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxphan27 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 I don't have the links, but people have been posting the budgets for all the sports on this website over the last several months. It is no secret Women's Hockey is far and away the loss leader. It seems the only ones outraged are the people who haven't been paying attention. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-FB-FAN Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 9 minutes ago, Siouxphan27 said: It seems the only ones outraged are the people who haven't been paying attention. Which is upsetting in itself being there are so many folks who feel it is necessary to comment on the situation yet they are so uninformed. Why are so many opposed to research and facts? A little background search would go a long ways in preventing emotionally-charged, subjective criticism. I've seen several comments from people who do not even realize the state's budget shortage, yet they feel it necessary to attack UND's administration. Their source is the "culture of Grand Forks and North Dakota" ... wow, the public education system still has a lot of work to do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Siouxperfan7 Posted March 30, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted March 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said: Which is upsetting in itself being there are so many folks who feel it is necessary to comment on the situation yet they are so uninformed. Why are so many opposed to research and facts? A little background search would go a long ways before making an emotionally-charged, subjective criticism. I've seen several comments from people who do not even realize the state's budget shortage, yet they feel it necessary to attack UND's administration. Their source is the "culture of Grand Forks and North Dakota" ... wow, the public education system still has a lot of work to do. Unfortunately that is the world we live in today. What is more upsetting is people like Schlossman who is the main person that covers womens hockey had an opportunity to control the narrative and get the facts out there right away. He did not and instead added fuel to the emotionally charged fire. Not to rag on Brad, but he royally screwed up here. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-FB-FAN Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, Siouxperfan7 said: Unfortunately that is the world we live in today. What is more upsetting is people like Schlossman who is the main person that covers womens hockey had an opportunity to control the narrative and get the facts out there right away. He did not and instead added fuel to the emotionally charged fire. Not to rag on Brad, but he royally screwed up here. I agree. From what I've seen and heard, I think Brad S. could've definitely mediated this issue far better. There are so many people who feel UND made this cut with no class and that's all they see. They do not see or know about the $1.3 million budget reduction goal or, even in some extreme cases, the state's budget shortfall. Furthermore, many of these "out-criers" know very little about the women's hockey program to begin with; they certainly weren't doing anything to try fix the attendance issues. More reporting of facts and figures and less one-sided emotional bias in reporting would've certainly helped the overall perception of the issues facing UND. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfhockey Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Brads pissed he didn't break the story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homer Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 2 hours ago, Old Time Hockey said: Now that's funny! Championship level programs at UND? I can come up with one that I could pass the red face test with. Other than that you would get laughed out of the bar. By the way, we are a hockey school. 209 people showed up to watch a hockey playoff game at this "hockey school". Dickinson High School got more than that when they played Hazen/Beulah. Does that make Dickinson a "hockey town"? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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