UND to Summit/MVFC

[Goon]

3 hours ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

Goon?  Is that you?? 

Ha. No.

[siouxfan512]

10 minutes ago, Brucesky02 said:

Was anyone listening to Faison on the Jarrod Thomas Show today? Did this get brought up at all? 

Not really. Other than the fact that the public having access to some of this information can make Faison's job more difficult. I didn't this is was all that great of an interview segment.

[gfhockey]

So not much good came out of it?

[bison73]

18 hours ago, siouxfan512 said:

I have to say, the more I think about this move, the more it appeals to me. Majority of Bison fans I know would really look forward to this as well. Obviously some won't, as evidenced by Bisonville, and some on AGS. Though there are definitely some out there that are for it. I guess it makes the most sense to just ignore the trolls. I do understand the few that are concerned about scheduling with an odd number of teams, but there are plenty who are just angry and bitter about bad history ... time to get over that stuff. What I don't understand the SDSU fans that are bitter against UND, but they're are some out there.

Below is my post from AGS:

I may as well throw my 2 cents out there, and hopefully it comes across as fairly reasonable, regardless of the team you support.

I’m pretty impartial to whether or not UND is in the Big Sky or the MVFC. On the one hand, watching Big Sky football has been fun, and there is certainly some great talent in E. Wash, Montana, Montana St (usually), and several other teams that bounce up and down every season. On the other hand, being in a conference with the other Dakota schools makes sense. Proximity fuels rivalries, and certainly makes it more enjoyable for fans. More fans can travel to GF for games, and for UND fans can travel to away games. Probably the most important piece of the puzzle for UND is the obvious one. Travel costs in the Big Sky must be absolutely killing UND right. I hate the idea of cutting sports and limiting opportunities for kids, but in terms of operating a business, this is a necessary evil that UND has chosen to ignore.

I will certainly acknowledge the opposition by many Bison fans, though I think you can break that group into sever smaller ones … at least this is my perception.

1. Fan’s who would like UND to join MVFC. Loved the old rivalry. Have family connections to both schools. Assuming UND can stay competitive, would add yet another strong opponent to an already strong conference.
2. NDSU fans who want nothing to do with a move that would help UND. There is still a lot of bad blood from when NDSU made the move to D1 and UND wouldn’t schedule them. I’d like to make it clear, that I do side with NDSU fans on this frustration. I wanted UND to keep scheduling NDSU during the move and I thought it was dumb not to do so. (In reality UND should have moved to D1 at the same time, and it would have been interesting to see how the landscape of NDSU/UND football would look). However, this was a different time. Different ADs, Different Coaches, and so on. It the same reason I don’t blame NDSU for scheduling UND up until last season. NDSU was already on top of the FCS world, and UND was in a rebuild position. NDSU didn’t need to schedule a weaker team, and if they wanted to, they could pick whomever they wanted (Incarnate Word, Mississippi St, Etc.) They certainly were not obliged to schedule UND. That being said, UND also agreed to two away games at NDSU, which I think is a pretty solid way of Bubba saying he wants to restart something, even if it comes at a price up front. IMO, UND started that mess, but I think it has also been long enough that we can move on from it.
3. NDSU fans who legitimately hate UND. The rivalry cannot be friendly for them. They want nothing to do with the school up North. They would prefer UND fold up their athletics program and their school. Unfortunately there are fans like this, and let’s be honest, every fan base has them (including UND). These are the kind of people that would prefer to pick a fight before, during, or after a game. I personally don’t understand this mentality from anybody. I have in-laws who are big time NDSU fans, and have been for a long time, Going tailgating with them is a blast. Almost all of the NDSU fans like to rib me a bit for whatever UND gear I’m wearing then they toss me a beer and we have a good time. I guess I’ve always thought that having that kind of a rivalry, where you can yell and give people a hard time, then have a beer together when it is all done, is much more enjoyable than legitimately hating someone you don’t know because they have a Bison, Sioux, Hawk, etc. on their hat or shirt.

All in all, it looks like this move is pretty far along, and if it happens, I think everyone should just roll with it. Rivalries and personal feelings aside, it seems to be a smart move financially and logistically. So, for you MVFC/Bison/Coyote/USD/etc. fans, if this goes through, I look forward to making it to some away games and tailgating with you all. Hope we get to revive some old rivalries, and start some new ones.

A man of reason. Well said.

[siouxfan512]

1 minute ago, bison73 said:

A man of reason. Well said.

Appreciate it, I tried to have some of the same reason over on BV, but that went nowhere. There are a few people that are willing to have a decent conversation, but most like to just scream and shout.

[bison73]

1 hour ago, siouxfan512 said:

Appreciate it, I tried to have some of the same reason over on BV, but that went nowhere. There are a few people that are willing to have a decent conversation, but most like to just scream and shout.

We all have those.

[Siouxperfan7]

There is a small group of Bison fans that just can't get over the fact that UND did not move up to D1 he same time NDSU did and resent them for not scheduling the Bison after that.  They felt betrayed and wronged for some reason.  I get hating your rival.  But any rational fan of both UND and NDSU can clearly see that having UND and NDSU in the same conference (especially football) is what the majority of fans of both schools want.  It's time to move on and embrace the possibility of having UND and NDSU (as well as SDSU and USD) in the same conference.  

[UNDColorado]

13 minutes ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

There is a small group of Bison fans that just can't get over the fact that UND did not move up to D1 he same time NDSU did and resent them for not scheduling the Bison after that.  They felt betrayed and wronged for some reason.  I get hating your rival.  But any rational fan of both UND and NDSU can clearly see that having UND and NDSU in the same conference (especially football) is what the majority of fans of both schools want.  It's time to move on and embrace the possibility of having UND and NDSU (as well as SDSU and USD) in the same conference.  

I wish we all just moved up in the late 70's with the Montana's, then this wouldn't even be an issue. heck, we would all likely be in the same conference if that happened.

[UNDfaninMICH]

27 minutes ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

There is a small group of Bison fans that just can't get over the fact that UND did not move up to D1 he same time NDSU did and resent them for not scheduling the Bison after that.  They felt betrayed and wronged for some reason.  I get hating your rival.  But any rational fan of both UND and NDSU can clearly see that having UND and NDSU in the same conference (especially football) is what the majority of fans of both schools want.  It's time to move on and embrace the possibility of having UND and NDSU (as well as SDSU and USD) in the same conference.  

Clearly, they have cause to be upset. After all, we broke the "move up pact" that the schools had, right?

As to the football scheduling, my recollection was that losing to them would have had playoff implications in the DII era.

[CMSioux]

The timing wasn't right for UND to move up we had lots more going on at that time. To briefly revisit scheduling a non DII school at that time was proven to hurt playoff chances win or lose the game. SU revisionists see it another way of course. 

[Siouxperman8]

On 11/8/2016 at 4:43 AM, UNDColorado said:

Everyone stay tuned  because there will likely be more articles this week. The cost savings of the MVFC/Summit League vs Big Sky isn't as much as you think it would be.

Also, some of the geniuses on AGS do not seem to understand that our budget shortfall was due to having our budget set in stone, then the state issuing a revised budget that was much lower than UND was basing theirs off of. 

I was told that Faison estimated the savings to be $800k per year.  That was someone very close to the situation.  He also said Faison would deny that number for some reason if he was pressed on it.

 

[iramurphy]

2 hours ago, UNDfaninMICH said:

Clearly, they have cause to be upset. After all, we broke the "move up pact" that the schools had, right?

As to the football scheduling, my recollection was that losing to them would have had playoff implications in the DII era.

No, playing them would have had negative playoff implications back then.  We would have been penalized for playing regardless of the outcome.   There were no good excuses not to play them in other sports. 

[iramurphy]

I prefer the Big Sky because as an athlete I would rather play in Arizona, California, Utah, Colorado, Idaho, Portland and Montana.  Recruiting is the key to success and as soon as we were accepted into the Big Sky our coaches commented on how that was helping recruiting. Has that changed?  I also don't like the idea of joining the Big Sky and just as we start to establish our identity, we crap on them and move to the MVC.  If the Bison weren't in the MVC I doubt we would be discussing a move  there.  I would not count on them staying FCS.  Money talks and Fargo is growing fast. We need to develop our own business plan and strategy. We dicked around with the Fighting Sioux name for so long we still are losing thousands and maybe over $1million due to not launching our new brand. 

[Sioux95]

From a long term stability standpoint, the big sky is a clear winner.  Also, if the P5 breaks away, I like the options we would have by sticking together with the top half of the big sky.  I think in that scenario there is a lot more unpredictability about what would happen in the summit/valley, especially when you consider NDSU would do us no favors.

[bincitysioux]

iramurphy & Sioux95 get it.  Big picture people, look at the big picture.

[Nodak78]

37 minutes ago, bincitysioux said:

iramurphy & Sioux95 get it.  Big picture people, look at the big picture.

1000+

[UND-FB-FAN]

On 11/7/2016 at 8:39 PM, bincitysioux said:

That's debatable IMO.  Take out NDSU's recent run, which has been extraordinary and props to them for it, and what makes the MVFC so great competitively?  It is a fact that when we were DII we were on par with UNI who ruled the MVFC before the XDSU's got there.  For me anyways, the fact that NDSU & SDSU both have done so well in that conference since they joined tells me that it is really over-rated.  Especially when you look at SDSU, they sucked for 100 years, but now they are awesome apparently.  They've made the playoffs in DI 5 times but a Big Sky team ended their season 3 of those 5.

Personally, I think moving from the Big Sky to the SumValley would be like a Big 10 school moving to the Big 12, or an SEC school moving to the ACC.  It's not a huge drop off competetively, but it is definitely a down grade in competition, visibility, and stature.  

What irritates me most about the whole proposition is the fact that if the roles were reversed, and NDSU were the only Dakota school in the Big Sky and UND were in the SumValley along with the other ex-NCC schools, I am 100% confident that nearly every UND fan that currently prefers the SumValley, would actually be pushing for a move to the Big Sky.  

Your negative bias against NDSU appears to be clouding your judgement, in my opinion. The BSC may be somewhat comparable to the MVFC in terms of strength of teams, but there's no way the BSC is the superior conference. Furthermore, for UND, the MVFC and Summit is a superior fit based on both accessibility and regional fit. 

I dont understand this statement of yours: 

"It's not a huge drop off competetively, but it is definitely a down grade in competition ... "

[UND-FB-FAN]

1 hour ago, bincitysioux said:

iramurphy & Sioux95 get it.  Big picture people, look at the big picture.

Your "big picture" is actually quite small. You're bitter at NDSU and bored of the NCC model, despite the logic and practicality of it. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

2 hours ago, iramurphy said:

 Recruiting is the key to success and as soon as we were accepted into the Big Sky our coaches commented on how that was helping recruiting. Has that changed? 

Mussman and his staff made those statement when UND first joined the Big Sky Conference. Those players that he recruited from those "non-traditional" regions were largely unsuccessful here at UND. Bubba and his staff recruit a MVFC blueprint, which is essentially the traditional regions of North Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and even Manitoba. Bubba and his staff support a MVFC move for this reason, among several others. 

[UNDColorado]

3 hours ago, Siouxperman8 said:

I was told that Faison estimated the savings to be $800k per year.  That was someone very close to the situation.  He also said Faison would deny that number for some reason if he was pressed on it.

 

I don't know the figures, but I was told from a media contact "it is not as much as you would think" and more information was coming. I didn't ask for the details because they said a story was already in the works. 

Something seems to be up so we'll see soon enough.

[UND-FB-FAN]

1 hour ago, Sioux95 said:

From a long term stability standpoint, the big sky is a clear winner.

The powers of the Big Sky Conference have been accused of being anti-UND; obviously they approved admission back in 2010, but they sort of belittle UND at times from what others say. For years people have spent quite a bit of time complaining about how Montana and Montana State belittled UND. Furthermore, schools like Sacramento State were huge opponents of UNDs when it came to travel and distance issues. UND is still the new guy in the conference and the Big Sky Conference powers could easily disregard UND in certain scenarios as well. 

[bincitysioux]

I'm not negatively biased toward NDSU, I am just not infatuated with them.   I feel that North Dakota can succeed without being conjoined twins with them.  A lot of fans would seemingly trade a national championship trophy for a Nickle Trophy.  I would not.

[UND-FB-FAN]

15 minutes ago, bincitysioux said:

I'm not negatively biased toward NDSU, I am just not infatuated with them.   I feel that North Dakota can succeed without being conjoined twins with them.  A lot of fans would seemingly trade a national championship trophy for a Nickle Trophy.  I would not.

North Dakota has only two division one schools; they are 70 miles apart and they first played each other in football in 1894. The two universities likely can succeed without being in the same conference (NDSU has proved they can, UND was still working on that; perhaps your stance is based on wanting to prove UND can do this?); however, it seems beyond logical that these two schools be in the same conference. 

[zonadub]

2 hours ago, iramurphy said:

...   I also don't like the idea of joining the Big Sky and just as we start to establish our identity, we crap on them and move to the MVC.  If the Bison weren't in the MVC I doubt we would be discussing a move  there.  I would not count on them staying FCS.  ...

Two huge points

Think long term

[bincitysioux]

4 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

North Dakota has two division one two schools that are 70 miles apart; they first played each other in football in 1894. The two universities likely can succeed without being in the same conference (NDSU has proved they can, UND was still working on that; perhaps your stance is based on wanting to prove UND can do this?); however, it seems beyond logical that these two schools be in the same conference. 

My stance is based on the idea that I want UND to compete regularly against a mix of the best and most intriguing  competition possible.  I am not saying I never want to play NDSU or other SumValley teams for that matter.  We play NDSU and the other Dakota schools quite frequently, and that is great.  I've attended every UND-NDSU basketball game in GF since the turn of the century.  I enjoy the rivalry with the Bison, but not so much that I am willing to support slamming the door on emerging relationships with Big Sky schools, specifically Montana, Montana St, Idaho, Weber, Cal Poly, and UC Davis.  As members of the Big Sky we will still have games  frequently with the other Dakota schools.  As members of the SumValley, we would rarely, possibly even never play most Big Sky schools again.