President Kennedy Message on Athletics

[UND-1]

Just now, NoiseInsideMyHead said:

If it's so common, find me something -- anything -- to back up your claim.  I'll wait.

You're not my boss so you'll be waiting a long time.  Find it yourself.  

[Shawn-O]

15 minutes ago, NoiseInsideMyHead said:

You call me out for spewing "garbage" but you clearly don't disagree.  I plainly asked for evidence that our MBB coaches are underpaid.  You and Csonked seem to have some, although I don't quite know where your 'half of our peers' comes from.  OP had NOTHING but an apparent beef against women's hockey and complete ignorance about the cost of doing business.

Is it too much to ask for people to support their opinions with at least some form of evidence or rational thought?  This whole tirade of 'WH must be cut because I just saw a budget figure and it costs more than MBB' is a joke and speaks poorly to one's intelligence.

I would not continue to invest resources into a product with no hope of return, regardless of the quality.  That's not a business I would choose to be in.  

You seem emotionally invested in this topic and unable to view things objectively.  

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

Just now, Shawn-O said:

I would not continue to invest resources into a product with no hope of return, regardless of the quality.  That's not a business I would choose to be in.  

You seem emotionally invested in this topic and unable to view things objectively.  

The only thing I'm emotionally invested in is trying to have a thoughtful, reasoned discussion on this topic, which the mouth-breathers on this site are completely incapable of doing.

[Shawn-O]

1 minute ago, NoiseInsideMyHead said:

The only thing I'm emotionally invested in is trying to have a thoughtful, reasoned discussion on this topic, which the mouth-breathers on this site are completely incapable of doing.

Less time name calling and more time looking at facts would do you good. Start with the financial report posted earlier in the thread.  

[Oxbow6]

Just now, Shawn-O said:

Less time name calling and more time looking at facts would do you good. Start with the financial report posted earlier in the thread.  

Why bring facts into this? 

[dlsiouxfan]

It should be a no-brainer that Women's Hockey gets cut.  Frankly, it's been a millstone around this institution's neck since it's inception.  Pretty much every prediction made by it's proponents (cough..REA) has been flat out wrong.  It was supposed to be a revenue sport and be the starting point for driving interest in the sport at the high schools levels in ND and MN.  Neither has come even close to being true as it's a money pit and the very few ND high schools that started teams are now cutting them due to lack of participation.  If Schlossman wants to see women's hockey then maybe he can chip in to finance a club team.  It probably won't work because it would seem that no one in the state of ND wants to watch or play the sport but he's welcome to give it a try.  

[UNDvince97-01]

1 minute ago, dlsiouxfan said:

It should be a no-brainer that Women's Hockey gets cut.  Frankly, it's been a millstone around this institution's neck since it's inception.  Pretty much every prediction made by it's proponents (cough..REA) has been flat out wrong.  It was supposed to be a revenue sport and be the starting point for driving interest in the sport at the high schools levels in ND and MN.  Neither has come even close to being true as it's a money pit and the very few ND high schools that started teams are now cutting them due to lack of participation.  If Schlossman wants to see women's hockey then maybe he can chip in to finance a club team.  It probably won't work because it would seem that no one in the state of ND wants to watch or play the sport but he's welcome to give it a try.  

The peak of potential for WH has come and gone with little financial effect on the program as a whole (Lamoureaux Twins).

The biggest indictment is that the REA doesn't even want womens hockey anymore as it will be an eternal black hole and they know it.

[JohnboyND7]

Women's hockey = jai alai.

[dlsiouxfan]

I'll also add that I'm incredibly disappointed that Kennedy is delegating this to a committee of know-nothings.   How is Bubba, Jones, or Brewster supposed to go out and recruit when we have the head of this committee asking if the school can move back to Division II and it being broadcast throughout the state?  The committee should be told to go home and Kennedy can make the decision.  Having a committee out there deliberating idiotic recommendations in the public eye is the last thing this school and AD needs. 

[geaux_sioux]

23 minutes ago, NoiseInsideMyHead said:

The only thing I'm emotionally invested in is trying to have a thoughtful, reasoned discussion on this topic, which the mouth-breathers on this site are completely incapable of doing.

$1 tickets for gopher games.

[Shawn-O]

Just now, geaux_sioux said:

$1 tickets for gopher games.

Fact. 

[UNDBIZ]

57 minutes ago, NoiseInsideMyHead said:

You call me out for spewing "garbage" but you clearly don't disagree.  I plainly asked for evidence that our MBB coaches are underpaid.  You and Csonked seem to have some, although I don't quite know where your 'half of our peers' comes from.  OP had NOTHING but an apparent beef against women's hockey and complete ignorance about the cost of doing business.

Is it too much to ask for people to support their opinions with at least some form of evidence or rational thought?  This whole tirade of 'WH must be cut because I just saw a budget figure and it costs more than MBB' is a joke and speaks poorly to one's intelligence.

Just for the record, per USA Today Scott Nagy at South Dakota St receives a salary of $212,000 plus $25,000 of "other pay" plus potential bonuses of $17,000.  In 2014, USD was at $185,000 and NDSU was at $190,000.  Per its 2015 NCAA report, UND spent 137,000 on Brian Jones, including benefits, bonuses (if any), and the social security and other taxes that go along with employing anyone.  That would put his salary around $100,000.

[GeauxSioux]

7 minutes ago, JohnboyND7 said:

Women's hockey = jai alai.

Jai alai is more fun, since you can bet on it.

[UNDBIZ]

13 minutes ago, UNDvince97-01 said:

The peak of potential for WH has come and gone with little financial effect on the program as a whole (Lamoureaux Twins).

The biggest indictment is that the REA doesn't even want womens hockey anymore as it will be an eternal black hole and they know it.

What's this now?

[tnt]

41 minutes ago, Shawn-O said:

I would not continue to invest resources into a product with no hope of return, regardless of the quality.  That's not a business I would choose to be in.  

You seem emotionally invested in this topic and unable to view things objectively.  

So then women's basketball would have been cut years ago when they were first starting out.  The only way they got people to go was that they got people to watch part of the second half because they arrived early for the men's game.  

 

[mksioux]

It is VERY concerning to me that the chair of this committee would suggest going back to DII as a viable option.  I'm not concerned that it will actually happen, but I'm concerned that the people on this committee do not have the expertise to be making these kinds of recommendations.  It's also very unfortunate that "going back to DII" is now going to be part of the public narrative going forward and will be cloud over the athletic department until Kennedy finally makes a decision. 

[CMSioux]

I hope President Kennedy sees that comment as an embarrasment to him and his selection choice. 

[dlsiouxfan]

3 minutes ago, mksioux said:

It is VERY concerning to me that the chair of this committee would suggest going back to DII as a viable option.  I'm not concerned that it will actually happen, but I'm concerned that the people on this committee do not have the expertise to be making these kinds of recommendations.  It's also very unfortunate that "going back to DII" is now going to be part of the public narrative going forward and will be cloud over the athletic department until Kennedy finally makes a decision. 

Kennedy needs to step forward and make a public announcement that it's off the table.   He really can't let this sit out there as every program is no doubt having this used against them in recruiting. 

[Shawn-O]

3 minutes ago, tnt said:

So then women's basketball would have been cut years ago when they were first starting out.  The only way they got people to go was that they got people to watch part of the second half because they arrived early for the men's game.  

 

Let them play under the same rules as men and this would have a possibility of happening.  The no-checking just makes it unbearable. Let's go varsity with two hand touch women's football it would be about the same thing.  

[tnt]

4 minutes ago, mksioux said:

It is VERY concerning to me that the chair of this committee would suggest going back to DII as a viable option.  I'm not concerned that it will actually happen, but I'm concerned that the people on this committee do not have the expertise to be making these kinds of recommendations.  It's also very unfortunate that "going back to DII" is now going to be part of the public narrative going forward and will be cloud over the athletic department until Kennedy finally makes a decision. 

That is what Brad Schlossman was trying to tell everyone, that it makes no sense to have that kind of committee.  

[homer]

7 minutes ago, tnt said:

So then women's basketball would have been cut years ago when they were first starting out.  The only way they got people to go was that they got people to watch part of the second half because they arrived early for the men's game.  

 

Years ago when UND sports were DII, in a bus league and didn't have women's hockey in the sports offering?   

[UND-1]

10 minutes ago, tnt said:

So then women's basketball would have been cut years ago when they were first starting out.  The only way they got people to go was that they got people to watch part of the second half because they arrived early for the men's game.  

Women's BB has been around for 40 years and still has a smaller budget than upstart WH.  

As for your first point, you could not be more wrong.  For a good part of the 90's into the 2000's many people showed up for the women's game and left during the men's.  

[tnt]

2 minutes ago, Shawn-O said:

Let them play under the same rules as men and this would have a possibility of happening.  The no-checking just makes it unbearable. Let's go varsity with two hand touch women's football it would be about the same thing.  

I can actually foresee that somewhere down the line, when there isn't such a discrepancy in talent in the lower ranks of hockey.  I think the concern is that those that aren't that strong on their skates at the lower levels would be set up for going into the boards wrong and risk permanent injury.  But we have seen many women participating fully in non traditional women's sports, so one day, just like women's basketball it may evolve more like the men's game.  I am just curious why lower teams without as deep of pockets like St. Cloud, Bemidji, and Mankato State haven't cut women's hockey.  Maybe they are waiting to see how the women's sport evolves. 

[UND-1]

1 minute ago, tnt said:

I can actually foresee that somewhere down the line, when there isn't such a discrepancy in talent in the lower ranks of hockey.  I think the concern is that those that aren't that strong on their skates at the lower levels would be set up for going into the boards wrong and risk permanent injury.  But we have seen many women participating fully in non traditional women's sports, so one day, just like women's basketball it may evolve more like the men's game.  I am just curious why lower teams without as deep of pockets like St. Cloud, Bemidji, and Mankato State haven't cut women's hockey.  Maybe they are waiting to see how the women's sport evolves. 

Maybe they are running a D2, regional bus model for all their other sports?

[tnt]

3 minutes ago, UND-1 said:

Women's BB has been around for 40 years and still has a smaller budget than upstart WH.  

As for your first point, you could not be more wrong.  For a good part of the 90's into the 2000's many people showed up for the women's game and left during the men's.  

Did you not see my point, "starting out"?  I was one of the many people that caught part of the women's game before the men's game, and at times it wasn't pretty.  I was also one of the ones who did a complete 180 and enjoyed watching the women more.  The point was that it wouldn't have happened if it wasn't given a chance to evolve.