UND (6-4) vs Weber (8-1)

[SiouxVolley]

5 hours ago, homer said:

I'll give credit where it's due.  He coached a good game last night and gave his players all the praise in the article today. 

The coaching staff seems to have taken totally different tactics around the beginning if the conference season.  Jones seems much more mature too, and the team has progressed remarkably.  The only new coach on the staff is Heatherly.  I wonder if he doesn't have a calming presence on the staff and team?

Something has changed because the staff and team seemed much more schizo before.  There is a quiet determination and a peace now that wasn't there before.

[Teeder11]

3 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

The coaching staff seems to have taken totally different tactics around the beginning if the conference season.  Jones seems much more mature too, and the team has progressed remarkably.  The only new coach on the staff is Heatherly.  I wonder if he doesn't have a calming presence on the staff and team?

Something has changed because the staff and team seemed much more schizo before.  There is a quiet determination and a peace now that wasn't there before.

It's uncanny how winning, or relative progress compared to before, shapes that perception. I've seen little difference court side from the coaching staff but I have witnessed marked improvement from the players' execution and the leadership of Q, plus the steady maturation and gelling of Bernstine, McBuckets, Avants and Crandall. 

I guess you are right in that, behind the scenes,the coaches do have considerable influence on that on-court process but I see it less as a light switch that all of a sudden turned on at conference time but rather a slow developing process that's been needling upward since the beginning of this season. I hope it continues. It's been nerve wracking at times and a lot of of fun at other times to watch this team grow. 

[CMSioux]

21 hours ago, Teeder11 said:

I think Avants has earned a start in the next two games. Let Shanks come off the bench to provide depth and to keep his fouls down. 

Also none too impressed with the BSC officials this weekend. They were horrible both ways. But lots of phantom calls on Carson, and a brutal anticipation traveling call on Hooker on Thursday night. Are they too proud in those cases to reverse their original call?  This guy just got more adement about it when mildly challenged by Jones and wildly challenged by the crowd. 

As long as ego doesn't get in the way I just wonder about some guys "needing" to start and some guys doing just fine coming off the bench and making impact. I see that in Avants and Seales for example (there are others) both give solid performances coming off the bench - if we know that Shanks is going to get two fouls in the first 10 minutes (whether he actually makes the fouls or poor officiating makes them up) then having guys that are willing and very talented coming off the bench is a great asset. 

[Teeder11]

1 hour ago, CMSioux said:

As long as ego doesn't get in the way I just wonder about some guys "needing" to start and some guys doing just fine coming off the bench and making impact. I see that in Avants and Seales for example (there are others) both give solid performances coming off the bench - if we know that Shanks is going to get two fouls in the first 10 minutes (whether he actually makes the fouls or poor officiating makes them up) then having guys that are willing and very talented coming off the bench is a great asset. 

I think that's a good point. Everything that I've heard is that, for the most part, this team checks its egos at the door, and that they all LOVE playing basketball with each other. In past years, it seemed like we had more of a hodgepodge of individuals, complicated by a slew of hit and miss players transferring in, with all the baggage that they brought with them (i.e. the reasons they left other teams... i know we have a few transfers on this team with Shanks and Wheeler.) Even when we had Huff, Webb, Anderson, Brekke, Wilmer and Schuler off the bench, there were only spurts of team play, strong defense, making the extra pass and the like. Huff would both dazzle me and drive me nuts with his tendency to take the team on his back.

This year's recruiting class is the first sizable one to come in together and start fresh together (plus Geno) in a long time, and the best part is they are playing strong defense and unselfish BB.

[UND-1]

1 hour ago, Teeder11 said:

It's uncanny how winning, or relative progress compared to before, shapes that perception. I've seen little difference court side from the coaching staff but I have witnessed marked improvement from the players' execution and the leadership of Q, plus the steady maturation and gelling of Bernstine, McBuckets, Avants and Crandall. 

I guess you are right in that, behind the scenes,the coaches do have considerable influence on that on-court process but I see it less as a light switch that all of a sudden turned on at conference time but rather a slow developing process that's been needling upward since the beginning of this season. I hope it continues. It's been nerve wracking at times and a lot of of fun at other times to watch this team grow. 

They actually have made quite a few changes, IMO.  They used to run that same high ball screen 90% of the game and now run the weave at the top that allows them to get into a set play.  They also pass the ball into the post and let him work one-on-one, which we hardly ever saw in the past.  They are also utilizing a zone at times during the game, depending on the personnel they are going against and time of the game, etc.  UND got in and out of their 2-3 zone all game vs. Weber.  

I personally believe it was Jones seeing he needed to make changes based on his personnel, past failures, pressure or whatever.  Gotta give him credit because this team is playing completely different than the past teams.  

[Teeder11]

9 minutes ago, UND-1 said:

They actually have made quite a few changes, IMO.  They used to run that same high ball screen 90% of the game and now run the weave at the top that allows them to get into a set play.  They also pass the ball into the post and let him work one-on-one, which we hardly ever saw in the past.  They are also utilizing a zone at times during the game, depending on the personnel they are going against and time of the game, etc.  UND got in and out of their 2-3 zone all game vs. Weber.  

I personally believe it was Jones seeing he needed to make changes based on his personnel, past failures, pressure or whatever.  Gotta give him credit because this team is playing completely different than the past teams.  

Nice assessment. I can see that now that you point it out.  

[Nodak78]

18 minutes ago, UND-1 said:

18 minutes ago, UND-1 said:

They actually have made quite a few changes, IMO.  They used to run that same high ball screen 90% of the game and now run the weave at the top that allows them to get into a set play.  They also pass the ball into the post and let him work one-on-one, which we hardly ever saw in the past.  They are also utilizing a zone at times during the game, depending on the personnel they are going against and time of the game, etc.  UND got in and out of their 2-3 zone all game vs. Weber.  

I personally believe it was Jones seeing he needed to make changes based on his personnel, past failures, pressure or whatever.  Gotta give him credit because this team is playing completely different than the past teams.  

They actually have made quite a few changes, IMO.  They used to run that same high ball screen 90% of the game and now run the weave at the top that allows them to get into a set play.  They also pass the ball into the post and let him work one-on-one, which we hardly ever saw in the past.  They are also utilizing a zone at times during the game, depending on the personnel they are going against and time of the game, etc.  UND got in and out of their 2-3 zone all game vs. Weber.  

I personally believe it was Jones seeing he needed to make changes based on his personnel, past failures, pressure or whatever.  Gotta give him credit because this team is playing completely different than the past teams.  

2-3 or 3-2 zone?  It seems they have the 1,2,3's around the 3 point line with 4 and 5 sucked in along side the key.  Whatever it is.  It is working against opponents 3 point shooters save Senglin.  That can let it fly at half court with ease. 

[UND-1]

Looks like a 2-3.

[jdub27]

Before the season, after the overseas trip, it was mentioned that the chemistry this team had was completely different from previous years. Players understood and embraced their roles and were actually buying in. Easy to write something like that off as preseason hype but it appears to have a fair amount of truth behind it. No clue on the exact reason for it, but I still think the transition/conference affiliation/nickname combination had a bigger impact than anyone realized. The staff had to take some chances on some players that were talented but weren't quite the perfect fit and then tried filling some of those holes with transfers that weren't necessarily great fits, compounding the problems (though it almost paid off). Still a ways to go but there is definitely noticeable progress that has been made this season and that is encouraging.

[Nodak78]

1 hour ago, UND-1 said:

49 minutes ago, UND-1 said:

49 minutes ago, UND-1 said:

Looks like a 2-3.

Looks like a 2-3.

They actually have made quite a few changes, IMO.  They used to run that same high ball screen 90% of the game and now run the weave at the top that allows them to get into a set play.  They also pass the ball into the post and let him work one-on-one, which we hardly ever saw in the past.  They are also utilizing a zone at times during the game, depending on the personnel they are going against and time of the game, etc.  UND got in and out of their 2-3 zone all game vs. Weber.  

I personally believe it was Jones seeing he needed to make changes based on his personnel, past failures, pressure or whatever.  Gotta give him credit because this team is playing completely different than the past teams.  

2-3 or 3-2 zone.  It seems they have the 1,2,3's around the 3 point line with 4 and 5 sucked in along side the key.  Whatever it is.  It is working against opponents 3 point shooters save Senglin.  That can let it fly at half court with ease. 

 

 

It does look like 2-3 there but Q looks like he is sagging down to help Avants.  Q would normally be around the perimeter.

[sioux2013]

Bottom line they have chemistry and team play.  This has lacked before in all they years that Jones has been here.  Huff, Anderson, Webb, Schuler and Brekke were the highest scoring freshman class in the nation but lacked chemistry and TEAM play and that caused all the inconsistent play and results and ultimately what could have been and should have been a trip to the dance.  Don't know if it was coaching that couldn't figure this out or just a few of the players didn't want to change.  This current group of players are playing great basketball and playing together and I don't know if its due to coaching or the willingness and understanding of the players who realize that this is what it takes to win. Whatever the case its working and a joy to watch. 

[MoSiouxFan]

I sensed that there might actually be something improved and very different about this team after we swept our opponents on the overseas trip.  All those teams must not have been slouches, either, as one or two of the teams that we beat turned around and beat Marquette and/or Georgetown.

[hoops44]

boxscore omits Hookers steal at the end of game leading to Geno tomahawk slam

[F'n Hawks]

Team chemistry and team play usually comes with the type of guys you recruit, it is hard to coach/teach that, it deals with the type of character and willingness to succeed the player has, it seems jones has done a better job recruiting those types of players ,bubba has also done a great job cleaning up house and recruiting those players

[sioux2013]

3 hours ago, F'n Hawks said:

Team chemistry and team play usually comes with the type of guys you recruit, it is hard to coach/teach that, it deals with the type of character and willingness to succeed the player has, it seems jones has done a better job recruiting those types of players ,bubba has also done a great job cleaning up house and recruiting those players

Agree.  

[Smoggy]

It's a 2-3 zone but the bottom wings come up very high to guard and stay there.  Normally once one of the top two guys get to the wing the bottom guy would drop off.  By doing this Weber wasn't able to reverse the ball.  I kept waiting for us to take a chance and trap out of it.  I guess in theory it morphs into a 3-2 because of this.  It also helped how well our inside guys defended as we didn't need the wing back down fronting.

It was also interesting to see that after initial transition we would then switch to man during the same possession.  

[SiouxVolley]

8 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

It's a 2-3 zone but the bottom wings come up very high to guard and stay there.  Normally once one of the top two guys get to the wing the bottom guy would drop off.  By doing this Weber wasn't able to reverse the ball.  I kept waiting for us to take a chance and trap out of it.  I guess in theory it morphs into a 3-2 because of this.  It also helped how well our inside guys defended as we didn't need the wing back down fronting.

It was also interesting to see that after initial transition we would then switch to man during the same possession.  

Highly doubt Jones instituted the new defense or the weave on offense.  What they were doing wasn't working, and someone proposed instituting these new systems.  My bet is Heatherly is resposible, as he's the new blood in the coaches.

[ArtVandalay]

7 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

Highly doubt Jones instituted the new defense or the weave on offense.  What they were doing wasn't working, and someone proposed instituting these new systems.  My bet is Heatherly is resposible, as he's the new blood in the coaches.

I see what you did with the critical thinking there but this isn't the case. We ran max/flex offense at times last year at times but you never saw it because it wasn't run very well. Need unselfish players to run it effectively. It's a popular offense as well. The one thing Jones is, is a smart, technical coach. He is good at tinkering with sets and constantly does this. Just got players now to do it. 

With rules changes, matchup issues, etc. Playing some zone pretty common in college basketball right now. 

[hoops44]

Staff is doing a Great Job coaching wise...Talent level rates at the Bottom of BSC per Verbal Commits recruit rating chart....

Eastern Washington	Eagles	2.089	goeags
Idaho	Vandals	2.111	govandals
Idaho State	Bengals	2.000	isubengals
Montana	Grizzlies	2.264	gogriz
Montana State	Bobcats	2.026	msubobcats
North Dakota	Fighting Hawks	2.000	fightingsioux
Northern Arizona	Lumberjacks	2.282	nauathletics
Northern Colorado	Bears	2.051	uncbears
Portland State	Vikings	2.194	goviks
Sacramento State	Hornets	2.042	hornetsports
Southern Utah	Thunderbirds	2.000	suutbirds
Weber State	Wildcats	2.205

[niouxsiouxfan]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/und-basketball/3943554-mens-basketball-finally-some-reasons-cheer

MEN'S BASKETBALL: Finally, some reasons to cheer

QUOTE:   The days when basketball was on par—or at least in the same zip code—with UND men's hockey may not ever return to Grand Forks.

Is Wayne Nelson really this dumb?  This statement is on par with some of the Sid and Reusse classics.

 

[niouxsiouxfan]

On 2/8/2016 at 9:14 AM, jdub27 said:

Before the season, after the overseas trip, it was mentioned that the chemistry this team had was completely different from previous years. Players understood and embraced their roles and were actually buying in. Easy to write something like that off as preseason hype but it appears to have a fair amount of truth behind it. No clue on the exact reason for it, but I still think the transition/conference affiliation/nickname combination had a bigger impact than anyone realized. The staff had to take some chances on some players that were talented but weren't quite the perfect fit and then tried filling some of those holes with transfers that weren't necessarily great fits, compounding the problems (though it almost paid off). Still a ways to go but there is definitely noticeable progress that has been made this season and that is encouraging.

 

1 hour ago, hoops44 said:

Staff is doing a Great Job coaching wise...Talent level rates at the Bottom of BSC per Verbal Commits recruit rating chart....

Eastern Washington	Eagles	2.089	goeags
Idaho	Vandals	2.111	govandals
Idaho State	Bengals	2.000	isubengals
Montana	Grizzlies	2.264	gogriz
Montana State	Bobcats	2.026	msubobcats
North Dakota	Fighting Hawks	2.000	fightingsioux
Northern Arizona	Lumberjacks	2.282	nauathletics
Northern Colorado	Bears	2.051	uncbears
Portland State	Vikings	2.194	goviks
Sacramento State	Hornets	2.042	hornetsports
Southern Utah	Thunderbirds	2.000	suutbirds
Weber State	Wildcats	2.205

The ranking thing is being debated in the football thread, but it holds the same in basketball.  Unless they are Top100 or so, it's murky at best. 

However, UND has recruited some serious talent and athletes in the last few years.  May with high level experience.

I can't speak for all, but here's start.

Q- Mr. Basketball (MN) with State Championship experience.

Geno- Multiple State Championships (MN) under one of the best coaches in the nation, leading the team as PG

McDermott- Led team to championship tourney (3rd place-best record ever)

Cortez- Led team to State Championship, first ever

Collins- Same school/coach as Geno, DeLaSalle. multiple state championships, more of a role player, but did his job exceptionally well. This kid is athletic!

Wheeler- Also has State Championship experience, played all four years of Varsity.

Shanks- One of the top centers to come out of MN.  Not sure about championship tourneys, but led team to many wins

(please add if choose to do so, son't know Avants and others history)

POINT being these guys know how to play the game and what it takes to win.  They want to continue the success they've had throughout their young career, and will work at doing so.

Let's continue to enjoy the show

[Cratter]

4 hours ago, hoops44 said:

 

Staff is doing a Great Job coaching wise...Talent level rates at the Bottom of BSC per Verbal Commits recruit rating chart....

Eastern Washington	Eagles	2.089	goeags
Idaho	Vandals	2.111	govandals
Idaho State	Bengals	2.000	isubengals
Montana	Grizzlies	2.264	gogriz
Montana State	Bobcats	2.026	msubobcats
North Dakota	Fighting Hawks	2.000	fightingsioux
Northern Arizona	Lumberjacks	2.282	nauathletics
Northern Colorado	Bears	2.051	uncbears
Portland State	Vikings	2.194	goviks
Sacramento State	Hornets	2.042	hornetsports
Southern Utah	Thunderbirds	2.000	suutbirds
Weber State	Wildcats	2.205

Fact: UND talent is in the upper half of Big Sky.

[Cratter]

3 hours ago, niouxsiouxfan said:

http://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/und-basketball/3943554-mens-basketball-finally-some-reasons-cheer

MEN'S BASKETBALL: Finally, some reasons to cheer

QUOTE:   The days when basketball was on par—or at least in the same zip code—with UND men's hockey may not ever return to Grand Forks.

Is Wayne Nelson really this dumb?  This statement is on par with some of the Sid and Reusse classics.

 

I wondered about that comment myself.

[Teeder11]

10 minutes ago, Cratter said:

I wondered about that comment myself.

Wayne goes way back so I took it has a reference to the old hey day of UND Div. II basketball at old Hyslop when that place was rocking and people were hanging from rafters.  For the women, I recall the NCAA Div. II playoff games of the late1990s as being one of those times. Or maybe the Phil Jackson and Dave Vonesh eras, respectively.  Wayne's no spring chicken!   Sorry Wayno!  

[fightingsioux4life]

4 minutes ago, Teeder11 said:

Wayne goes way back so I took it has a reference to the old hey day of UND Div. II basketball at old Hyslop when that place was rocking and people were hanging from rafters.  For the women, I recall the NCAA Div. II playoff games of the late1990s as being one of those times. Or maybe the Phil Jackson and Dave Vonesh eras, respectively.  Wayne's no spring chicken!   Sorry Wayno!  

The early 1990's featured great MBB teams and slowly decaying MH teams. That is what Wayne Nelson was talking about.