Fire Hakstol's Replacement

[nodak651]

3 hours ago, Kermit's Luck said:

Absolutely. Agreed.

What I expect, or at least hope to get, from my leisure-time activity of reading sports message boards about my favorite teams (Red Sox included btw) is intelligent discourse, maybe some insider information, a few one-liners, and an additional level of immersion into the culture surrounding those teams. I used to get that here (got on the uscho forum just after I graduated and moved away from GF, was happy when SS sprung up!), but I'm not sure the ratio of good to bad is there anymore. It's expected that some percentage of the contribution won't meet my lofty standards, but if most of it doesn't then I should use my leisure time differently. This is literally the same people re-hashing the same debate that has been ongoing here for what, 3-4 years?

Thanks for the advice bud, I'll add coach discussion to the list of things I no longer want to read this group's opinions on. Have a good one, and go Sox!

You realize that you can start a thread and talk about whatever you want to, right?

[yzerman19]

12 hours ago, KoolGuy2K said:

Alright. You got me on the DOT. But I'm pretty sure the Pony Express was already together prior to that season, and when Frattin came back, he was a stud. I think he would have had a great season whoever he played with. But Hak was here many seasons and only figured out two great lines? 

your point about chemistry is a good one. Its hard to catch lightning in a bottle like we did this year!

[Cratter]

Call me crazy but this team wasn't uber talented. At least not overly moreso than a lot of previous UND teams. Two guys really stood out in Brock and Drake. They were exceptional hockey players. This team had only four seniors and not one on defense. And a first year starting goalie who was only a sophomore. 

This year to me was more about determination and motivation. The freshman bought in quick and the coaches have a great systematic defense they have figured out.

The future is bright (and minus the early departures, which happens every year. Could be even more talented next year).

[The Sicatoka]

Under the heading of team:
Why this team should not have won a title: eleven freshmen <-- think about that ... and smile.
Why this team should have won a title: stout, veteran defense; CBS line

Under the heading of coaching:
Why this team should not have won a title: first year head coach
Why this team should have won a title: Brad Berry and his whole demeanor and approach

I'll say it again: Thank you ... Dave Hakstol ... for daring to make an easily questioned (and vastly unpopular in some quarters) move to bring Brad back. 

And thank you Brad Berry for executing the philosophy ("RAISE IT!") and exorcising the demons. 

[SJHovey]

17 hours ago, MafiaMan said:

Oh, four or five years without a Frozen Four appearance and maybe even a missed NCAA tournament or two...and that national championship would be in the rear-view mirror pretty quickly.

Exactly.  Ask Wisconsin fans how much fun they've had since ending their own sixteen year "natty" drought in 2006.

[jdub27]

11 hours ago, Cratter said:

Call me crazy but this team wasn't uber talented. At least not overly moreso than a lot of previous UND teams. Two guys really stood out in Brock and Drake. They were exceptional hockey players.

I know you hedged it by saying that they may not have been more talented than a lot of previous UND teams but it is a pretty big stretch to say they weren't uber talented. Were they the most talented team UND has fielded since they won their last championship? Maybe, maybe not, not way to prove it one way or another. Either way, the credentials are pretty impressive.

A first team All-American and three second team All-Americans.
A first line composed of the top college free agent and two 1st round picks.
A second line with two mid-round NHL draft picks with a third guy who is likely to be drafted this year.
5 out of 6 defenseman were NHL picks and the 6th one left college early to sign a pro contract. Arguably the best blue line UND has ever fielded.
Goaltending may have been a question mark going into the season, but the starter (with the help of the excellent blue line) broke UND records not to mention was good enough to keep a redshirt on an NHL draft pick once he was healthy.
12 total NHL draft picks with another guy or two that will likely add to that total before all is said and done.

This team was one different bounce of the puck against Denver from having the same fate as a the other UND teams they may or may not have been more talented. After 16 years, a handful of which UND was the better or best team, I'm glad the puck finally bounced they way it did.

 

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

11 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

I know you hedged it by saying that they may not have been more talented than a lot of previous UND teams but it is a pretty big stretch to say they weren't uber talented. Were they the most talented team UND has fielded since they won their last championship? Maybe, maybe not, not way to prove it one way or another. Either way, the credentials are pretty impressive.

A first team All-American and three second team All-Americans.
A first line composed of the top college free agent and two 1st round picks.
A second line with two mid-round NHL draft picks with a third guy who is likely to be drafted this year.
5 out of 6 defenseman were NHL picks and the 6th one left college early to sign a pro contract. Arguably the best blue line UND has ever fielded.
12 total NHL draft picks with another guy or two that will likely add to that total before all is said and done.

This team was one different bounce of the puck against Denver from having the same fate as a the other UND teams they may or may not have been more talented. After 16 years, a handful of which UND was the better or best team, I'm glad the puck finally bounced they way it did.

 

It surprised me that people think this team wasn't talented. You basically had a 'DOT-esque' 1st line , a heavy line that shut down other teams' top lines, a 4th line that scored consistently in the 2nd half of the year, along with the best group of dmen UND has had in a long time.  The only real question going in was goaltending and Cam set UND records in that department.

I know this might not be a popular opinion but I think this team beats the '10-'11 team, albeit just barely.

[chicofelipe]

3 minutes ago, InHeavenThereIsNoBeer said:

I know this might not be a popular opinion but I think this team beats the '10-'11 team, albeit just barely.

Only in the national tournament.

[Shawn-O]

43 minutes ago, SJHovey said:

Exactly.  Ask Wisconsin fans how much fun they've had since ending their own sixteen year "natty" drought in 2006.

Are there any left? 

[The Sicatoka]

7 minutes ago, Shawn-O said:

Are there any left? 

I don't know. How about you ask these folks.

[dagies]

16 hours ago, Kermit's Luck said:

.......... and everyone wasn't a freakin' genius.

Well, you've come to the right place!

 

 

12 hours ago, Cratter said:

 

57 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

I know you hedged it by saying that they may not have been more talented than a lot of previous UND teams but it is a pretty big stretch to say they weren't uber talented. Were they the most talented team UND has fielded since they won their last championship? Maybe, maybe not, not way to prove it one way or another. Either way, the credentials are pretty impressive.

A first team All-American and three second team All-Americans.
A first line composed of the top college free agent and two 1st round picks.
A second line with two mid-round NHL draft picks with a third guy who is likely to be drafted this year.
5 out of 6 defenseman were NHL picks and the 6th one left college early to sign a pro contract. Arguably the best blue line UND has ever fielded.
Goaltending may have been a question mark going into the season, but the starter (with the help of the excellent blue line) broke UND records not to mention was good enough to keep a redshirt on an NHL draft pick once he was healthy.
12 total NHL draft picks with another guy or two that will likely add to that total before all is said and done.

This team was one different bounce of the puck against Denver from having the same fate as a the other UND teams they may or may not have been more talented. After 16 years, a handful of which UND was the better or best team, I'm glad the puck finally bounced they way it did.

 

You said it better than I could have.   This was a VERY talented team with the best goaltending we've seen in many, many years.  As good or better than Karl G even.

We look at the final scores and it looks like we blew away the NCAA field, but IMO that's not the case.  Every game had a fulcrum that could have tipped either way, but this team did find a way to tip it their way.  And had some good fortune that eluded many of Hak's NCAA teams.

 

[Goon]

1 hour ago, InHeavenThereIsNoBeer said:

It surprised me that people think this team wasn't talented. You basically had a 'DOT-esque' 1st line , a heavy line that shut down other teams' top lines, a 4th line that scored consistently in the 2nd half of the year, along with the best group of dmen UND has had in a long time.  The only real question going in was goaltending and Cam set UND records in that department.

I know this might not be a popular opinion but I think this team beats the '10-'11 team, albeit just barely.

I am going to agree with you. If anything, I think this team is one of the more talented team's I have seen at UND. I don't remember a d-core this talented and goaltending was very good.  Forward play was awesome in all three zones on the ice. I know I've told people that I think this year's team was better than the 2010-11 team.

[MafiaMan]

I'll be your Huckleberry, Cratter.  You might be my 2nd best bestie on SiouxSports.com, but you're outta your damn mind if you think this team wasn't "uber talented."  

[I Ranger]

26 minutes ago, Goon said:

I am going to agree with you. If anything, I think this team is one of the more talented team's I have seen at UND. I don't remember a d-core this talented and goaltending was very good.  Forward play was awesome in all three zones on the ice. I know I've told people that I think this year's team was better than the 2010-11 team.

I think both were extremely talented but I'm still taking the 2010-11 team. In my opinion, the 10-11 forward unit was much deeper (Kristo and Nelson on the 3rd line) with two solid scoring lines Pony Express and Gregoire-Vande-Hextal. I would take this year's D-core but that 10-11 core was excellent and deep as well Genoway-MacWilliam, Blood-Forbort,  Marto- LaPoint and then Simpson and Gleason as extras. Not to mention Dell had one of the best year's for a UND goaltender ever. Just goes to show how different a team is remembered when they didn't win a championship.

[Cratter]

1 hour ago, dagies said:

Well, you've come to the right place!

 

 

You said it better than I could have.   This was a VERY talented team with the best goaltending we've seen in many, many years.  As good or better than Karl G even.

We look at the final scores and it looks like we blew away the NCAA field, but IMO that's not the case.  Every game had a fulcrum that could have tipped either way, but this team did find a way to tip it their way.  And had some good fortune that eluded many of Hak's NCAA teams.

 

Und has had a few goalies better than Karl G over the years.

[Cratter]

21 minutes ago, I Ranger said:

 Just goes to show how different a team is remembered when they didn't win a championship.

UND loses to DU: Just another North Dakota team.

UND beats QU: OMG, #mosttalentedteamever.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

37 minutes ago, I Ranger said:

I think both were extremely talented but I'm still taking the 2010-11 team. In my opinion, the 10-11 forward unit was much deeper (Kristo and Nelson on the 3rd line) with two solid scoring lines Pony Express and Gregoire-Vande-Hextal. I would take this year's D-core but that 10-11 core was excellent and deep as well Genoway-MacWilliam, Blood-Forbort,  Marto- LaPoint and then Simpson and Gleason as extras. Not to mention Dell had one of the best year's for a UND goaltender ever. Just goes to show how different a team is remembered when they didn't win a championship.

Cam's year this year was better statistically when compared to Dell besides shutouts.

Save %: Dell .924   Cam .935

GAA: Dell 1.79   Cam  1.65

SO: Dell 6   Cam 5

W/LT: Dell 30-7-2   Cam 24-4-2

To answer your last point, I remember exactly as they were. I followed the '10-11 team really closely. They were dominant no doubt but IMO I'd pick this year's heavy line and Cam to limit chances to the Pony Express.

I'd be interested in seeing the goal margin differential, SOS, GPG, GAPG

Of course of all of this is hypothetical so don't take it too seriously but it's an interesting comparison to me.

[MafiaMan]

Most folks:  Fewest losses of any of the 8 NCAA championship teams in UND history.  WOW!

Cratter:  Yea, but one of those was to Wisconsin.  

[Cratter]

19 minutes ago, MafiaMan said:

Most folks:  Fewest losses of any of the 8 NCAA championship teams in UND history.  WOW!

Cratter:  Yea, but one of those was to Wisconsin.  

Anything more than zero is Unacceptable!

[Cratter]

25 minutes ago, InHeavenThereIsNoBeer said:

Cam's year this year was better statistically when compared to Dell besides shutouts.

Save %: Dell .924   Cam .935

GAA: Dell 1.79   Cam  1.65

SO: Dell 6   Cam 5

W/LT: Dell 30-7-2   Cam 24-4-2

To answer your last point, I remember exactly as they were. I followed the '10-11 team really closely. They were dominant no doubt but IMO I'd pick this year's heavy line and Cam to limit chances to the Pony Express.

I'd be interested in seeing the goal margin differential, SOS, GPG, GAPG

Of course of all of this is hypothetical so don't take it too seriously but it's an interesting comparison to me.

Helps proved his point of Dell being one of UNDs best goaltending years ever.....right up there with Cams 2016 National Championship team. That's pretty impressive.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

16 minutes ago, Cratter said:

Helps proved his point of Dell being one of UNDs best goaltending years ever.....right up there with Cams 2016 National Championship team. That's pretty impressive.

I never said he wasn't. We were comparing the two teams and who would win in a hypothetical matchup.  Dell's number are impressive... Cam's are impressive-er.

[Cratter]

11 minutes ago, InHeavenThereIsNoBeer said:

Never said he wasn't/ We were comparing the two teams and who would win in a hypothetical matchup.  Dell's number are impressive... Cam's are impressive-er.

I'd guess they are probably tops or very near the tops in UND single season hockey history. Hard to beat #1.

For their careers it's something like Jordan parise, lammy, dell, cam and karl for the best overall based on save % and gaa  And maybe Zane?

Cams numbers could fluctuate though when all is said as he's only played half his college career games so far.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

4 minutes ago, Cratter said:

I'd guess they are probably tops or very near the tops in UND hockey history. Hard to beat #1.

For their careers it's something like Jordan parise, lammy, dell, cam and karl for the best overall based on save % and gaa (careers not one season). And maybe Zane?

Cams numbers could fluctuate though when all is said as he's only played half his college career games so far.

Don't disagree with anything stated there.

[Big A HG]

Dell was great and plenty good enough to win a title.  Cam was awesome as well, and I'm not trying to take anything away from Cam, but our D-corps was a bit better this year than in 2011.  There were some good Defensemen in 2011, but as a whole, the 2016 group is the best UND has had in awhile.

[The Sicatoka]

So, what if the 1987 Hrkac Circus played the 2016 CBS crew? 

What if the game was in the new REA? What if the game was in the old REA?

What if Ditka drove the '87 team to the rink (either rink) in a school bus? ---> "Da ...Hawks!"

< /my best "Bill Swerski" impression >