College Hockey Expansion

[siouxstudent]

Just now, jdub27 said:

And sense!

If it doesnt make dollars it doesnt make sense..

[chicofelipe]

54 minutes ago, InHeavenThereIsNoBeer said:

NCHC's record vs Big 10 since formation of leagues:

<snip>

For a total W/L of 49-16-6 and an absolutely dominant win % of 73.2. All of this despite UND's less than stellar record against Big10 opponents, yet we want to join their league? Sounds like a good way to start playing down to the competition and being ill-prepared come NCAA tourney time.

They want US to join THEIR league. Because it will improve THEIR league. I am not convinced it would improve OUR program. 

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

11 minutes ago, chicofelipe said:

They want US to join THEIR league. Because it will improve THEIR league. I am not convinced it would improve OUR program. 

^ Exactly

[Doc Holliday]

As a Gopher fan, I've enjoyed reading the discussion here.  

Don't know if anybody has ever followed him, but there's a blogger called Frank The Tank (https://frankthetank.me/) who's pretty knowledgeable when it comes to all things expansion.  If you have the time, read some of his stuff.  It would be interesting to see what he thinks of North Dakota as a one sport affiliate member.  Like it has been said here, Johns Hopkins & Notre Dame were pretty clean additions in the sense that there wasn't much involving BTN.  

I think both the Big Ten & North Dakota are going to do what benefits them.  That could involve joining the conference.  I think the hockey programs in the Big Ten would be on board with North Dakota.  I think the talk of going to UMD & Omaha would be more threats than anything & that's not what the conference would want.  UMD & Omaha are good hockey programs, but they are not North Dakota, at least when it comes to college hockey name & brand.   Overall, I would think that the Big Ten has a pretty good grasp of the possibility of schools wanting to add hockey.  If North Dakota is added, the Big Ten could still add 2 more teams if schools decided to go that route.  They probably could even add 4 to make it 12 teams.  I see zero chance of Purdue or Indiana ever wanting to add hockey.  I think any worry about North Dakota being shunned by the Big Ten if some schools took the steps to add hockey is unlikely.

I don't think the TV angle is as big a factor for the Big Ten.  Advertising helps, but it isn't the driving factor to what makes the BTN succeed; it's when it gets put in homes & markets.  Getting BTN on standard cable packages in the Washington DC & New York market is what drives the real money (just the fact that BTN is on standard cable in New York justifies Rutgers, regardless of any football or basketball success.  Rutgers plus all the Big Ten alumni in New York was the combo for that).  I think the Big Ten does see potential with the conference tournament though.  Michigan & Michigan State may not like it, but I think they realize that potential of a yearly conference tournament, in St. Paul, with Minnesota/Wisconsin/North Dakota is a plus for the conference.  The WCHA Final Five was the perfect storm & cannot be duplicated unless all things go back to the way they were.  But since it's not coming back, I think the conference sees that they can get at least part of that.

As for the hockey component, I think you'll be surprised.  The games Minnesota has had with Ohio State have been pretty good hockey to watch.  Penn State plays a fun style to watch & they have the resources and desire to want to be good.  Simply adding North Dakota back in to 4 regular games a season is going to make Gopher fans happy.  You know your history with Wisconsin.  And other than this year, the games with Michigan have been awesome & intense.  MSU needs to rebuild, but they've won a title more recently than any Big Ten team has so they clearly can do it.  As for Notre Dame, they're an Edina graduate program & I think they'll be fun.

I think the vast majority of us wish things were how they used to be.  But that ship has sailed.  I really thing, long term, both North Dakota & the Big Ten would benefit from this if it happened.

[tnt]

I  think that people are kidding themselves if they think the Big Ten isn't going to rise to a higher level in the years to come.  Once Wisconsin has a few more years of Granato as coach, they will be contenders once again, and looking at Penn State and some of their future recruits, I think they will as well.  Pennsylvania is producing more talent every year, and that will only benefit them.  Michigan and Minnesota will continue to get NHL talent. It seems Notre Dame will always be lurking for the NCAA tournament and contend for the Frozen Four on occasion.  The question marks are Ohio State and Michigan State.  I have a feeling they would be good in cycles much like Western Michigan and CC could.  I tend to believe as others, that we would help the level rise substantially, and could help the Big Ten turn the corner as a high power conference.  I still am not sure if that is what I would want, as there are pros and cons both ways. 

[Siouxperfan7]

1 hour ago, Doc Holliday said:

As a Gopher fan, I've enjoyed reading the discussion here.  

Don't know if anybody has ever followed him, but there's a blogger called Frank The Tank (https://frankthetank.me/) who's pretty knowledgeable when it comes to all things expansion.  If you have the time, read some of his stuff.  It would be interesting to see what he thinks of North Dakota as a one sport affiliate member.  

Looks like he mentioned in his blog when Notre Dame joined.

https://frankthetank.me/2016/03/22/big-ten-adds-notre-dame-for-hockey/

"Hockey fans that might be pushing for a powerhouse hockey program like North Dakota to join the Big Ten are engaging in the classic behavior of thinking like a fan instead of a university president. The academic, market and demographic needs of the conference are completely different than on-the-ice considerations. I’m sure the Big Ten would be very open to the top hockey schools in New England, such as Boston University and/or Boston College, but that is more driven by the league’s interest in the Boston market than competitiveness."

[dmksioux]

1 hour ago, Doc Holliday said:

Don't know if anybody has ever followed him, but there's a blogger called Frank The Tank (https://frankthetank.me/) who's pretty knowledgeable when it comes to all things expansion.  If you have the time, read some of his stuff.  It would be interesting to see what he thinks of North Dakota as a one sport affiliate member.  Like it has been said here, Johns Hopkins & Notre Dame were pretty clean additions in the sense that there wasn't much involving BTN.  

 

I took a look at his blog, and he has an article on ND joining the B1G hockey conference that he wrote in March of 2016.  Here's a link to the story:  https://frankthetank.me/2016/03/22/big-ten-adds-notre-dame-for-hockey/

And an excerpt on his thoughts about UND possibly being a target of the B1G:  

• Hockey fans that might be pushing for a powerhouse hockey program like North Dakota to join the Big Ten are engaging in the classic behavior of thinking like a fan instead of a university president. The academic, market and demographic needs of the conference are completely different than on-the-ice considerations. I’m sure the Big Ten would be very open to the top hockey schools in New England, such as Boston University and/or Boston College, but that is more driven by the league’s interest in the Boston market than competitiveness.

Now a lot may have changed in the course of a year, but he seems to think ASU will be the target.

 

EDIT:  Guess SIOUXPERFAN7 beat me to it!

[tnt]

2 minutes ago, dmksioux said:

I took a look at his blog, and he has an article on ND joining the B1G hockey conference that he wrote in March of 2016.  Here's a link to the story:  https://frankthetank.me/2016/03/22/big-ten-adds-notre-dame-for-hockey/

And an excerpt on his thoughts about UND possibly being a target of the B1G:  

• Hockey fans that might be pushing for a powerhouse hockey program like North Dakota to join the Big Ten are engaging in the classic behavior of thinking like a fan instead of a university president. The academic, market and demographic needs of the conference are completely different than on-the-ice considerations. I’m sure the Big Ten would be very open to the top hockey schools in New England, such as Boston University and/or Boston College, but that is more driven by the league’s interest in the Boston market than competitiveness.

Now a lot may have changed in the course of a year, but he seems to think ASU will be the target.

 

EDIT:  Guess SIOUXPERFAN7 beat me to it!

Apparently ASU wasn't the target.  If they plan on waiting until everything shakes out with ASU, they could be waiting quite a while.  The last thing the Big Ten needs right now is another drain on their pairwise rankings. 

[The Sicatoka]

I believe ASU was the target, but then the big open question (arena) on ASU still doesn't have an answer. 

So there sits the B1G at seven. 

[SiouxVolley]

15 minutes ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

Looks like he mentioned in his blog when Notre Dame joined.

https://frankthetank.me/2016/03/22/big-ten-adds-notre-dame-for-hockey/

"Hockey fans that might be pushing for a powerhouse hockey program like North Dakota to join the Big Ten are engaging in the classic behavior of thinking like a fan instead of a university president. The academic, market and demographic needs of the conference are completely different than on-the-ice considerations. I’m sure the Big Ten would be very open to the top hockey schools in New England, such as Boston University and/or Boston College, but that is more driven by the league’s interest in the Boston market than competitiveness."

I regularly correspond with him on a message board.  In the past, he assured me that UND would not go to Big Ten Hockey.  He hasn't revised his thinking much lately, but this proves even socalled experts are wrong on occasion.  He has said though it's apparent that no other Big Ten schools will move to add hockey in the short term.

The move to the Slummit makes sense if the Big Ten follows through and adds us.  The Big Sky made UND fans look west, including Ariz St and maybe Utah, Arizona, and UNLV for future hockey.  The Slummit will force UND fans to always look Midwest. 

A Big Ten affiliate membership is huge, as UND should get sitting privileges for the Big Ten academic consortium, which gets much of the government's research dollars.  While we may not be an actual member, we will know best practices and have an in to high level research that wouldn't normally be available to us and may tack on to research at Big Ten schools.  That is huge for UND, and no President in his right mind would turn it down.

Haven't seen this on this site, but Liberty was granted a waiver to FBS by the NCAA.  That opens up a whole can of worms, as more teams will probably leave FCS.  Youngstown St, Stony Brook, Albany, Delaware, JMU, Jacksonville St, Sam Houston St.  That would force others such as NDSU and Montana to look into it, as FCS is destined to be watered down if there is no P5 aplit.

[UND-1]

5 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

I regularly correspond with him on a message board.  In the past, he assured me that UND would not go to Big Ten Hockey.  He hasn't revised his thinking much lately, but this proves even socalled experts are wrong on occasion.  He has said though it's apparent that no other Big Ten schools will move to add hockey in the short term.

The move to the Slummit makes sense if the Big Ten follows through and adds us.  The Big Sky made UND fans look west, including Ariz St and maybe Utah, Arizona, and UNLV for future hockey.  The Slummit will force UND fans to always look Midwest. 

A Big Ten affiliate membership is huge, as UND should get sitting privileges for the Big Ten academic consortium, which gets much of the government's research dollars.  While we may not be an actual member, we will know best practices and have an in to high level research that wouldn't normally be available to us and may tack on to research at Big Ten schools.  That is huge for UND, and no President in his right mind would turn it down.

Haven't seen this on this site, but Liberty was granted a waiver to FBS by the NCAA.  That opens up a whole can of worms, as more teams will probably leave FCS.  Youngstown St, Stony Brook, Albany, Delaware, JMU, Jacksonville St, Sam Houston St.  That would force others such as NDSU and Montana to look into it, as FCS is destined to be watered down if there is no P5 aplit.

 

Oh sh*t, here we go again.  

 

[mksioux]

I think the talk about North Dakota joining the Big Ten as an affiliate member is originating from the Big Ten hockey community. I don't doubt that many in the hockey community would like to see it happen and will make a proposal to the Presidents. But I find it hard to believe that the Big Ten Presidents would vote for North Dakota under any circumstances.  The Presidents aren't going to care about the actual hockey team or program.  They care about the academics of the institution and/or how much money the school can bring to the Big Ten.  UND has decent academics and some research, but they are not up to the Big Ten's standards, and any revenue UND could generate for the Big Ten would be negligible.  The Presidents at the non-hockey playing schools also aren't going to care all that much that the hockey league is "stuck" at 7 teams and an odd number is difficult for scheduling.  Rather than invite North Dakota, I think they'd rather keep it at 7 until ASU gets their arena situation figured out and then invite ASU.  But I could be wrong.

If North Dakota is offered, they should and will accept.  Being affiliated with the Big Ten is a huge deal from an institutional standpoint.  

[Siouxperfan7]

What are the requirements in the vote by the Presidents to add a school to the conference, full member and affiliate.  Does it need to be unanimous, a certain percent, or a simple majority?

[The Sicatoka]

7 minutes ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

What are the requirements in the vote by the Presidents to add a school to the conference, full member and affiliate.  Does it need to be unanimous, a certain percent, or a simple majority?

Double elimination tournament bracket play of this. 

Winner decides. 

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

9 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

I regularly correspond with him on a message board.  In the past, he assured me that UND would not go to Big Ten Hockey.  He hasn't revised his thinking much lately, but this proves even socalled experts are wrong on occasion.  He has said though it's apparent that no other Big Ten schools will move to add hockey in the short term.

The move to the Slummit makes sense if the Big Ten follows through and adds us.  The Big Sky made UND fans look west, including Ariz St and maybe Utah, Arizona, and UNLV for future hockey.  The Slummit will force UND fans to always look Midwest. 

A Big Ten affiliate membership is huge, as UND should get sitting privileges for the Big Ten academic consortium, which gets much of the government's research dollars.  While we may not be an actual member, we will know best practices and have an in to high level research that wouldn't normally be available to us and may tack on to research at Big Ten schools.  That is huge for UND, and no President in his right mind would turn it down.

Haven't seen this on this site, but Liberty was granted a waiver to FBS by the NCAA.  That opens up a whole can of worms, as more teams will probably leave FCS.  Youngstown St, Stony Brook, Albany, Delaware, JMU, Jacksonville St, Sam Houston St.  That would force others such as NDSU and Montana to look into it, as FCS is destined to be watered down if there is no P5 aplit.

Good post, Paragraph 4, ya, I'll leave alone, The first 3 paragraphs I'll comment on. 

1st: No additional B1G school wants MH (that's the energizer to the affiliate search for #8).  B1Ghc schools want more than 7. Other 8 Presidents may give in to B1G6 demands, just to appease them. And, UND is a flagship research U with a Law School and Med School. Also, not a U which is from within one of their own State University Systems.

2nd: Would be in their footprint with all sports by 2020. 

3rd: Research potential in some way, and maybe more so down the road, Pres. Kenned knows how this works.

After more than 5 years of seeking for more MH teams and only finding affiliate Notre Dame, the B1G is lowering it's sights for team #8. 

 

[zonadub]

UND being included in discussions about B1G schools 14 times a year (home/away) would raise the profile of the school. Being mentioned in the same sportscasts as Penn State or Ohio State will bring more prestige than being included with Youngstown in football reports or Ft Wayne in basketball. The collateral benefit of the B1G is much greater than Summit/MVFC. Can't imagine that Kennedy would say No if the opportunity would present itself. 

[GFG]

32 minutes ago, zonadub said:

UND being included in discussions about B1G schools 14 times a year (home/away) would raise the profile of the school. Being mentioned in the same sportscasts as Penn State or Ohio State will bring more prestige than being included with Youngstown in football reports or Ft Wayne in basketball. The collateral benefit of the B1G is much greater than Summit/MVFC. Can't imagine that Kennedy would say No if the opportunity would present itself. 

Agreed. It may not please all UND hockey fans, but being associated with the B1G conference + Notre Dame could and probably would be huge for the university. It gets the university noticed around the entire B1G footprint playing those teams, being talked about on BTN shows, having their highlights on BTN and being seen in the B1G hockey standings anywhere they are shown. 

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

This mornings pairwise of B1G teams and UND.

4      Minn

9      Penn St

11t  Ohio St

13t  North Dakota

13t  Notre Dame

16   Wis

Now Notre Dame doesn't play in the B1G till next season, but with them, that's 5 of the 7 teams in top 16. Leaving the 2 Mich schools out.

Not bad for a league that had so many nay sayers on here.

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

15 hours ago, GFG said:

Agreed. It may not please all UND hockey fans, but being associated with the B1G conference + Notre Dame could and probably would be huge for the university. It gets the university noticed around the entire B1G footprint playing those teams, being talked about on BTN shows, having their highlights on BTN and being seen in the B1G hockey standings anywhere they are shown. 

There would be a ton of recognition, and would much more so be in line with our foot print in all sports by 2020.

[Rebel_Sioux]

50 minutes ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

This mornings pairwise of B1G teams and UND.

4      Minn

9      Penn St

11t  Ohio St

13t  North Dakota

13t  Notre Dame

16   Wis

Now Notre Dame doesn't play in the B1G till next season, but with them, that's 5 of the 7 teams in top 16. Leaving the 2 Mich schools out.

Not bad for a league that had so many nay sayers on here.

Have you seen their pairwise rankings in every year previous to this one? Atlantic Hockey was almost on par with them.

That being said, going forward I believe they will have more years like this year, but what's apparent is that the current NCHC will be competitive every year.

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

25 minutes ago, Rebel_Sioux said:

Have you seen their pairwise rankings in every year previous to this one? Atlantic Hockey was almost on par with them.

That being said, going forward I believe they will have more years like this year, but what's apparent is that the current NCHC will be competitive every year.

Yes, and they sure bounced back except for the Mich's. You take UND out of NCHC and mix it in B1G, with Notre Dame joining next season, now that looks big.

[cberkas]

https://www.unlv.edu/news/article/unlv-kicks-playoffs-ncaa-dreams?utm_content=buffer9bd3d&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

And UNLV is going to play a game again at T-Mobile Arena.

If a club team can play there again, it must not be as expensive as UND thinks it is. 

[John W.]

A vote here for Hawks ' hockey to join the BIG....if for no other reason than the prestige factor....It's fun to think about MBB and WBB making the NCAA's and playing someone with national recognition......Just like FB playing a team from a power 5 conference....Much more national prestige and exposure playing the likes of Ohio and Penn State than St. Cloud/Bemidji/CC.....nothing against their caliber of hockey...but so much about student recruitment/retention/university status is about 'perception'....Time for UND to set itself apart in it's signature sport...from Mercyhurst, Union, etc......and become part of the 'national' sports culture.....Kennedy gets this....!!!!

[SIOUXFAN97]

talked to virg last night...he says no to the rumor of big10 hockey.  end. of. story.

[bigskyvikes]

54 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

talked to virg last night...he says no to the rumor of big10 hockey.  end. of. story.

Big pet peeve of mine is when someone answers a question with their opinion,  but acts like they actually know THE facts about it! He knows as much about it as you and I....Virg says....