Time to Fire Dave Hakstol....

[fightingsioux4life]

Be careful - no room for optimists here - here comes the Mrs. Hak, "I only want the best", "Is this how far we've dropped" blather.

Actually, it's the eternal optimists that rake the pragmatic realists over the hot coals for daring to question the coaching staff and how they do things.

[CMSioux]

Actually, it's the eternal optimists that rake the pragmatic realists over the hot coals for daring to question the coaching staff and how they do things.

So I'm guessing you consider yourself a pragmatic realist and those who question the value of constant negative rants and "Fire Coach" threads are the eternal optimists.

One of you pragmatic realists needs to reach out to Starman of College Hockey News:

Miami, a preseason conference favorite, is in last place. North Dakota, who many thought were headed to a slightly down year based on who it lost from last season, is near the top. Now as the season enters the stretch run, both teams see themselves at different ends of the spectrum.

[fightingsioux4life]

So I'm guessing you consider yourself a pragmatic realist and those who question the value of constant negative rants and "Fire Coach" threads are the eternal optimists.

One of you pragmatic realists needs to reach out to Starman of College Hockey News:

Miami, a preseason conference favorite, is in last place. North Dakota, who many thought were headed to a slightly down year based on who it lost from last season, is near the top. Now as the season enters the stretch run, both teams see themselves at different ends of the spectrum.

If pointing out obvious problems counts as a "negative rant", then so be it. Ignoring it won't make it go away. And Starman is the poster child of ducky and bunny logic. I honestly don't pay much attention to what he thinks. We have ZERO margin for error from this point forward and will probably have to win the NCHC tournament, unless we get help from other teams.

[Mariucci]

You guys probably don't care what I think but here goes anyway. Firing Hakstol would be insane. UND is one of the best teams in the country EVERY year with maybe this year being the lone exception but of course it's still only February so who knows what will happen the next month or so. Jerry York is the best in the business right now but didn't he go from '84 to '01 without a title? He had some sub par seasons during that stretch as well. Didn't Jack Parker go from '95 to '09 without a title? He also had sub par seasons in between. Red Berenson is currently on a stretch of 16 seasons without a title. Lucia is currently on an 11 year run himself without the big one and he had 4 straight crap seasons.

Let me put it this way. As a Gopher fan I would be thrilled if UND fired Hakstol because than maybe UND would actually suffer some down years like every other elite program has. Under Hakstol UND has been a machine with strong teams year after year that are a threat to win it all. The grass is not always greener. A new coach isn't just going to walk in and immediately win a title. Keep the good coach you already have.

[fightingsioux4life]

Jerry York is the best in the business right now but didn't he go from '84 to '01 without a title?

I appreciate your input to this topic (seriously, I do), but let's remember that Jerry York took over a putrid Boston College team and had to rebuild it before he was in contention for NCAA titles. Dave Hakstol took over a Porsche and has underachieved with it. That is the issue some of us have with him.

[HockeyisGr8]

Just because I support Dave Hakstol doesn't mean I'm not getting antsy myself. And if Minnesota happens to pull a title out of their hat this season, my guess is that the heat on Hakstol will only be turned up a notch.

So Mafia, I believe you have been asked this b/4, but not sure I have ever seen a specific answer. Assuming things continue the same as they have for the last 10 years (no titles - hope it doesn't but assume it does), i.e. - Hakstol's teams continue to be over .500, continue to compete for league regular/post season titles, stands remain full, team always makes NCAA tourney but Do Not win any NCAA titles (and let's also assume Minnesota does not either) - then as you are the AD in my scenario, would you fire Hakstol and if so how many more years would you give him b/4 making your move?

[MafiaMan]

You guys probably don't care what I think but here goes anyway. Firing Hakstol would be insane. UND is one of the best teams in the country EVERY year with maybe this year being the lone exception but of course it's still only February so who knows what will happen the next month or so. Jerry York is the best in the business right now but didn't he go from '84 to '01 without a title? He had some sub par seasons during that stretch as well. Didn't Jack Parker go from '95 to '09 without a title? He also had sub par seasons in between. Red Berenson is currently on a stretch of 16 seasons without a title. Lucia is currently on an 11 year run himself without the big one and he had 4 straight crap seasons.

All stuff I've pointed out here MANY times, Mariucci.

[HockeyisGr8]

I was going to ask Goon the same question but I get the impression that he would never fire Hakstol under the those circumstances. Am I correct Goon? If not the same question to you. I am just curious how long you guys would accept the status quo b/4 the lack of a NT would prompt you to make a move, if at all.

[brianvf]

We have ZERO margin for error from this point forward and will probably have to win the NCHC tournament, unless we get help from other teams.

Not necessarily zero margin.

According to Jim's PWR analysis, we should be safe with 6-8 wins. Five wins out of the last 8 games puts us right around the bubble before the conference tourneys.

So, in other words, the primary scenario in which we would have to win the NCHC tourney would be if the Sioux win 4 or less games of the remaining 8.

Still lots to sort out.

[brianvf]

You guys probably don't care what I think but here goes anyway. Firing Hakstol would be insane. UND is one of the best teams in the country EVERY year with maybe this year being the lone exception but of course it's still only February so who knows what will happen the next month or so. Jerry York is the best in the business right now but didn't he go from '84 to '01 without a title? He had some sub par seasons during that stretch as well. Didn't Jack Parker go from '95 to '09 without a title? He also had sub par seasons in between. Red Berenson is currently on a stretch of 16 seasons without a title. Lucia is currently on an 11 year run himself without the big one and he had 4 straight crap seasons.

Let me put it this way. As a Gopher fan I would be thrilled if UND fired Hakstol because than maybe UND would actually suffer some down years like every other elite program has. Under Hakstol UND has been a machine with strong teams year after year that are a threat to win it all. The grass is not always greener. A new coach isn't just going to walk in and immediately win a title. Keep the good coach you already have.

Good post.

I appreciate your input to this topic (seriously, I do), but let's remember that Jerry York took over a putrid Boston College team and had to rebuild it before he was in contention for NCAA titles.

Rebuilding a team shouldn't take 17 seasons, especially for a superior coach like York.

BC should have fired him around season 12 or so.

[SiouxScore]

Rich hockey history...that could define Minnesota, UMD, Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Boston University, Boston College, Maine, Lake Superior State, New Hampshire, and any one of about 20 other NCAA hockey programs. Hell, Michigan Tech has rich history too. It's been 30-35 years since they've had a quality program year in and year out, but they do have a rich history.

The finest facility...DU's $75 million Magness Arena, Penn State's $88 million Pegula Ice Arena, and BU's $225 million dollar complex (which includes Agganis Arena) are certainly nothing to sneeze at. Neither are Mariucci Arena, Yost Ice Arena, or good old Alfond Arena up in Maine. If best arena or best stadium should guarantee success, can you tell me why the Red Sox are winning World Series' in a dump like Fenway? And don't answer "player salaries" because the Miami Marlins spent a boatload of cash on players in year one of their brand-new stadium and that was a disaster. If anything, the Red Sox cut some big salaries and found cheaper replacements this past season.

The most coveted position in college hockey...yet another opinion-oriented philosophy. If Dave Hakstol were fired tomorrow and an offer of a one billion dollar a year salary, an active oil well in Watford City, and being made lifetime Emperor of North Dakota was made to Jerry York, his answer would be "no." Sorry, folks, Grand Forks, ND isn't on the short-list of places to move to. And, as stated above in the facility argument...there are many schools that could claim to be "most-coveted" coaching job. North Dakota's one of them.

The "I've spent thousands on this team" argument...love, Love, LOVE this argument. The "because I have invested my time and money watching this team, there should be a return on my personal investment in the form of a national championship" philosophy. When I drop $10 on a movie ticket, I don't walk into the theater thinking "I'd better be watching an Oscar-worthy performance or I'm asking the manager for my money back." If I'm disappointed in the whole movie or just the ending, well, that's how it works. Now, if you want to head down to the locker room area and hang around after the game and wait for the chance to chew out Hakstol, his staff, and the 18-22 year old athletes for not meeting your expectations on the ice, that's your business. I'll just turn off the TV, grumble about the game, then turn it back on the next night and cheer again. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks, I guess.

Before you retaliate with the "MafiaMan's against national championships" argument, I will ask you to reconsider. Just because I support Dave Hakstol doesn't mean I'm not getting antsy myself. And if Minnesota happens to pull a title out of their hat this season, my guess is that the heat on Hakstol will only be turned up a notch.

Nice job with this Mafia!

[SiouxScore]

You guys probably don't care what I think but here goes anyway. Firing Hakstol would be insane. UND is one of the best teams in the country EVERY year with maybe this year being the lone exception but of course it's still only February so who knows what will happen the next month or so. Jerry York is the best in the business right now but didn't he go from '84 to '01 without a title? He had some sub par seasons during that stretch as well. Didn't Jack Parker go from '95 to '09 without a title? He also had sub par seasons in between. Red Berenson is currently on a stretch of 16 seasons without a title. Lucia is currently on an 11 year run himself without the big one and he had 4 straight crap seasons.

Let me put it this way. As a Gopher fan I would be thrilled if UND fired Hakstol because than maybe UND would actually suffer some down years like every other elite program has. Under Hakstol UND has been a machine with strong teams year after year that are a threat to win it all. The grass is not always greener. A new coach isn't just going to walk in and immediately win a title. Keep the good coach you already have.

Good post Mariucci and I think a lot of opposing teams fans would share your view if Hakstol was fired.

[Ray77]

Just look in 104. Ull see me

jjjust buzzed bud

[MafiaMan]

So Mafia, I believe you have been asked this b/4, but not sure I have ever seen a specific answer. Assuming things continue the same as they have for the last 10 years (no titles - hope it doesn't but assume it does), i.e. - Hakstol's teams continue to be over .500, continue to compete for league regular/post season titles, stands remain full, team always makes NCAA tourney but Do Not win any NCAA titles (and let's also assume Minnesota does not either) - then as you are the AD in my scenario, would you fire Hakstol and if so how many more years would you give him b/4 making your move?

This is somewhat difficult because you want a very specific answer for a very hypothetical situation. If you define the "status-quo" as ten consecutive 23-30 win seasons, multiple conference and NCHC playoff championships, 10 consecutive trips to the NCAA tournament, 5-7 trips to the Frozen Four, and 2-4 title game appearances but ZERO national titles, I'd still argue that North Dakota is a premiere college hockey program and that Hakstol is a good coach. Fire him based on that? It'd still be tough to do if I was the AD at UND - and I realize some people may disagree with me on that.

The problem with the "Woog" analogy is that Doug Woog's last three years were a rapid decline record-wise. From 27-12-1 and WCHA conference co-champs (2nd place playoff finish) in 1996-1997 to 17-22 the next season and 15-19-9 in his final year. That's a pretty steep drop and the decision to replace Woog was probably inevitable at that point. And don't think for one minute that Dean Blais' 1997 title didn't start swaying the minds of Gopher fans and their "Minnesota's Pride on Ice" mentality - because it did.

I think eventually, Hakstol's legacy will go one way or the other. Either he gets over the hump and gets that elusive title - or the team starts declining record-wise, missing some NCAA tournament appearances, and he will be Gino Gasparini'd out the door. And as I stated earlier, should Minnesota win a title this season, you can bet the heat on the Hakstol stove will get turned up by about 50 degrees to 400 farenheit.

[runaroundsioux]

You guys probably don't care what I think but here goes anyway. Firing Hakstol would be insane. UND is one of the best teams in the country EVERY year with maybe this year being the lone exception but of course it's still only February so who knows what will happen the next month or so. Jerry York is the best in the business right now but didn't he go from '84 to '01 without a title? He had some sub par seasons during that stretch as well. Didn't Jack Parker go from '95 to '09 without a title? He also had sub par seasons in between. Red Berenson is currently on a stretch of 16 seasons without a title. Lucia is currently on an 11 year run himself without the big one and he had 4 straight crap seasons.

Let me put it this way. As a Gopher fan I would be thrilled if UND fired Hakstol because than maybe UND would actually suffer some down years like every other elite program has. Under Hakstol UND has been a machine with strong teams year after year that are a threat to win it all. The grass is not always greener. A new coach isn't just going to walk in and immediately win a title. Keep the good coach you already have.

When a Gopher fan is the voice of reason on SS,maybe it's time for some to step back and reasses their view. This reinforces my earlier post about other teams opinion of the Sioux. I just wish some of our own fans felt the same.

[as15]

This is somewhat difficult because you want a very specific answer for a very hypothetical situation. If you define the "status-quo" as ten consecutive 23-30 win seasons, multiple conference and NCHC playoff championships, 10 consecutive trips to the NCAA tournament, 5-7 trips to the Frozen Four, and 2-4 title game appearances but ZERO national titles, I'd still argue that North Dakota is a premiere college hockey program and that Hakstol is a good coach. Fire him based on that? It'd still be tough to do if I was the AD at UND - and I realize some people may disagree with me on that.

The problem with the "Woog" analogy is that Doug Woog's last three years were a rapid decline record-wise. From 27-12-1 and WCHA conference co-champs (2nd place playoff finish) in 1996-1997 to 17-22 the next season and 15-19-9 in his final year. That's a pretty steep drop and the decision to replace Woog was probably inevitable at that point. I think eventually, Hakstol's legacy will go one way or the other. Either he gets over the hump and gets that elusive title - or the team starts declining record-wise, missing some NCAA tournament appearances, and Hakstol will be Gino Gasparini'd out the door.

Hopefully the latter isn't already occurring, last year was Hakstol's worst year (record-wise) and this year is on pace to be. Not saying it is happening, just that this year and last year have the chance to be the two worst years of his tenure as head coach.

[4evrSIOUX]

You guys probably don't care what I think but here goes anyway. Firing Hakstol would be insane. UND is one of the best teams in the country EVERY year with maybe this year being the lone exception but of course it's still only February so who knows what will happen the next month or so. Jerry York is the best in the business right now but didn't he go from '84 to '01 without a title? He had some sub par seasons during that stretch as well. Didn't Jack Parker go from '95 to '09 without a title? He also had sub par seasons in between. Red Berenson is currently on a stretch of 16 seasons without a title. Lucia is currently on an 11 year run himself without the big one and he had 4 straight crap seasons.

Let me put it this way. As a Gopher fan I would be thrilled if UND fired Hakstol because than maybe UND would actually suffer some down years like every other elite program has. Under Hakstol UND has been a machine with strong teams year after year that are a threat to win it all. The grass is not always greener. A new coach isn't just going to walk in and immediately win a title. Keep the good coach you already have.

Great post Mariuici! Who knew a Gopher fan could make such such an enlightened argument.

[runaroundsioux]

A gopher gets a popular star on SS. That cracking sound you hear is hell freezing over.

[bigskyvikes]

Hopefully the latter isn't already occurring, last year was Hakstol's worst year (record-wise) and this year is on pace to be. Not saying it is happening, just that this year and last year have the chance to be the two worst years of his tenure as head coach.

Last year and this year record wise is not even close to a fair comparison to the Woog years. Come on!

"The two worse years" maybe, but hardly bad seasons.

[gfhockey]

party is rocking

st judes is packed!

[Fetch]

do they have a bus ? can they even get enough in there to fill a bus ?

[gfhockey]

no bus from judes

just beers

mite be rock bus

or jb

[90siouxfan]

After watching the latest installment of "Through These Doors" I am wondering if there is too much emphasis on academics? Flame away.

[Fetch]

Yeah we just want guys who know Hockey & nothing else they should not be allowed to leave the Ralph unless with a coach..........Oh that's right there are no good coaches available

[90siouxfan]

Somewhere in the last umpteen billion posts on the subject it has been mentioned that incoming players are too focused on play after college(NHL). Personally I think it is a multitude of reasons:

1. Push by CHL to play there.

2. Parity

3. Pressure from fan expectations

4. Coach systems

5. Probably others but I am only a hockey fan and beer drinker, so the only place that makes me an expert is on Siouxsports. I will be surprised if Dave calls for advise.