hrkac Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 I am no hockey expert, but the team definitely plays it closer to the vest than under Blais. Everything is about structure, structure, structure. Blais didn't really have a "system" for the forwards; all he wanted was for them to backcheck whenever the defensemen needed help. Blais believed in allowing forwards to use their creativity and instincts to make things happen on the ice. He also was a big believer in kids playing pond hockey outdoors so that they could develop those skills without the constraints of a "system". This is the biggest problem with Hakstol and his staff; they are married to the system for better or worse. Honestly, if I wanted to watch stuff like this, I would get Wild season tickets. Actually, one of the problems UND had last weekend was beating a system. The system that St. Cloud used was to clog the nuetral zone...trap, whatever you want to call it. UND couldn't beat it hence why you never saw them come up ice with speed and numbers. So, bag on systems but St. Cloud used the exact system i believe you are admonishing UND and the Wild. btw, Jaque Lemaire isn't coaching the Wild anymore and they have twice the talent any of his teams did. The Wild emulate the same system Crosby and the Pens use. Also, you're crazy if you think Blais didn't (doesn't) use systems. His system at UND was to attack with pressure and speed and forecheck 2 all the time. It's not that far off from Hak. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 First part...well yes that's obvious. Second in in all seriousness....Why dont you find something else if you dont want to watch it? Okay Mr. Expert , I'll take a shot at this: First part......applies to you (and most people on here) as well. If that was a requirement to post here, 99% of us would be banned. Second part......I was simply pointing out what I see from a layman's perspective. That is what this forum is. I am a season-ticket holder and I bleed Green and White (that had better not become our new "name", btw), but that doesn't mean I am going to rubber-stamp everything. This is the "duckie and bunny" stuff I talk about from time to time and I simply refuse to go along with it. Any other questions? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Actually, one of the problems UND had last weekend was beating a system. The system that St. Cloud used was to clog the nuetral zone...trap, whatever you want to call it. UND couldn't beat it hence why you never saw them come up ice with speed and numbers. So, bag on systems but St. Cloud used the exact system i believe you are admonishing UND and the Wild. btw, Jaque Lemaire isn't coaching the Wild anymore and they have twice the talent any of his teams did. The Wild emulate the same system Crosby and the Pens use. Also, you're crazy if you think Blais didn't (doesn't) use systems. His system at UND was to attack with pressure and speed and forecheck 2 all the time. It's not that far off from Hak. You can believe this all you want, but it's pure BS. The Pens do not struggle to put the puck in the net on a game to game basis like the Wild. Even with Parise and Suter, they still struggle to score goals. I think there is still too much dead wood left over from the Lemaire regime. And if you really think Hakstol does the same things Blais did, you obviously are watching a different team than I am. This concept of scoring one or two goals and then hanging on for the win is trademark Hakstol and it simply doesn't work that well against the really good teams in the NCHC and the NCAA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrkac Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 You can believe this all you want, but it's pure BS. The Pens do not struggle to put the puck in the net on a game to game basis like the Wild. Even with Parise and Suter, they still struggle to score goals. I think there is still too much dead wood left over from the Lemaire regime. And if you really think Hakstol does the same things Blais did, you obviously are watching a different team than I am. This concept of scoring one or two goals and then hanging on for the win is trademark Hakstol and it simply doesn't work that well against the really good teams in the NCHC and the NCAA. No, i'm watching the same teams. You want a different decade of hockey and I think that's really what you have a problem with. Do i wish college hockey was still up and down with little neutral zone defense played? yes. that's why CC v UND games have been so entertaining the last couple of years because they play wide open against each other. College hockey isn't that way anymore and they play more systems and defense than ever. Love it or leave it. In regards to the Pens vs the Wild---they have Crosby and Malkin which makes just a little bit of difference. We're you complaining about the 2006-2011 UND teams? Well they had Oshie, Toews, Duncan, etc etc etc... UND is still playing the same system, right now they just don't have the horses. But they will in due time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 No, i'm watching the same teams. You want a different decade of hockey and I think that's really what you have a problem with. Do i wish college hockey was still up and down with little neutral zone defense played? yes. that's why CC v UND games have been so entertaining the last couple of years because they play wide open against each other. College hockey isn't that way anymore and they play more systems and defense than ever. Love it or leave it. In regards to the Pens vs the Wild---they have Crosby and Malkin which makes just a little bit of difference. We're you complaining about the 2006-2011 UND teams? Well they had Oshie, Toews, Duncan, etc etc etc... UND is still playing the same system, right now they just don't have the horses. But they will in due time. Well, I think Parise and Suter are pretty good sparkplugs that any team would kill to have, but you are right about Crosby and Malkin. And as for the 2006-2011 UND teams, they didn't get it done when it really counts in April and that is another legitimate criticism of Hakstol and his staff that I will not shut up about. And it's another piece of evidence that Hakstol's rigid systems and stubborn committment to orthodoxy have not exactly served us well in the NCAA tournament. And as for college hockey teams playing "more systems and defense than ever.", how do you explain Boston College and their skilled and speedy teams that actually win championships? They do what we used to do and it still works! So please don't paint this picture of college hockey being about tough, orthodox defensive systems. I think Hakstol's orthodoxy worked in the WCHA with teams like Anchorage, Tech and Bemidji. I don't think it will work as well in the NCHC with some of the teams (Miami, Denver, CC) we'll see week in and week out. But I guess all we can do is sit back and watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxweet Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 UND is still playing the same system, right now they just don't have the horses. But they will in due time. hopefully it is at some point this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 I think Hakstol's orthodoxy worked in the WCHA with teams like Anchorage, Tech and Bemidji. I don't think it will work as well in the NCHC with some of the teams (Miami, Denver, CC) we'll see week in and week out. But I guess all we can do is sit back and watch. Wait, weren't Denver and CC in the WCHA and historically Hakstol did pretty well against them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 You can believe this all you want, but it's pure BS. The Pens do not struggle to put the puck in the net on a game to game basis like the Wild. Even with Parise and Suter, they still struggle to score goals. I think there is still too much dead wood left over from the Lemaire regime. I'm curious... who is left over from the Lemaire regime? Chuck Fletcher and Mike Yeo are straight out of the Ray Shero Pittsburgh regime. I'd say there's vastly more of a Pittsburgh influence on the current Wild team than a Lemaire influence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Wait, weren't Denver and CC in the WCHA and historically Hakstol did pretty well against them? I guess the point I was trying to make is that the NCHC is deeper top to bottom, while the WCHA had more bottom-feeders like Tech and Anchorage. And we did have some games vs. Denver and CC where our lack of offensive production cost us. Of course, these were always explained away using the Brad Scholssman Rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 I'm curious... who is left over from the Lemaire regime? Chuck Fletcher and Mike Yeo are straight out of the Ray Shero Pittsburgh regime. I'd say there's vastly more of a Pittsburgh influence on the current Wild team than a Lemaire influence. I guess I was referring to the roster, not the coaching staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 I guess I was referring to the roster, not the coaching staff. So...Koivu, Harding, and Backstrom are making them unwatchable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxweet Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 this year's team is lacking finishers. beyond drake who is there? some might say rocco but as we have seen he couldn't finish a book if he was given it with one page to read, mark mac is insconsistent and then who is there...no one. get used to a lot of games like this past weekend, 3-2, 3-1 2-1... and if we are to winthose we will have to start playing almost perfect hockey. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 this year's team is lacking finishers. beyond drake who is there? some might say rocco but as we have seen he couldn't finish a book if he was given it with one page to read, mark mac is insconsistent and then who is there...no one. get used to a lot of games like this past weekend, 3-2, 3-1 2-1... and if we are to winthose we will have to start playing almost perfect hockey. I agree to some degree, but there has been a serious lack of scoring chances lately so the emphasis on a lack of finishing is magnified. We just don't seem to have the puck a lot lately! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 this year's team is lacking finishers. beyond drake who is there? some might say rocco but as we have seen he couldn't finish a book if he was given it with one page to read, mark mac is insconsistent and then who is there...no one. get used to a lot of games like this past weekend, 3-2, 3-1 2-1... and if we are to winthose we will have to start playing almost perfect hockey. I love watching Rocco play, but at 5' nothing and dreams of playing in the NHL, he can be dynamic and electric but at his size he has to be able to bury the puck at this level...often. He hasn't and is not doing that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokey the cat Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 What is the breakdown of Hak's w/l record by teams? I can't find a source, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDBIZ Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 First off, I think we've had a couple great teams under Hak and many other good ones, so I'm not on the Fire Hak bandwagon yet (though I'm far from a Hak fan)..... but I do wish he would make adjustments so his coaching and the style of play fits the players he has. One thing we always hear about Hak and the UND coaching staff is they operate like it's a professional hockey program and that is something several of the recruits have openly said they liked about the program. Perhaps it's a good thing and I'm wrong, but maybe Hak should encourage the players to have more fun on the ice and get back to the GAME of hockey, rather than forcing them into a rigid, structured system that allows for minimal creativity. Having fun is supposed to be one of the good things about college that the pros miss. Just one uninformed fan's thoughts. Regardless, I'm sure we'll go on our typical post-christmas charge, most who are currently ragging on him will praise Hak's ability to put together the right lines with the right chemistry, and we'll make a second round exit from the NCAA tourney. It's like clockwork. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 What is the breakdown of Hak's w/l record by teams? I can't find a source, thanks. I believe it is in the media guide on undsports.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scpa0305 Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Actually, one of the problems UND had last weekend was beating a system. The system that St. Cloud used was to clog the nuetral zone...trap, whatever you want to call it. UND couldn't beat it hence why you never saw them come up ice with speed and numbers. So, bag on systems but St. Cloud used the exact system i believe you are admonishing UND and the Wild. btw, Jaque Lemaire isn't coaching the Wild anymore and they have twice the talent any of his teams did. The Wild emulate the same system Crosby and the Pens use. Also, you're crazy if you think Blais didn't (doesn't) use systems. His system at UND was to attack with pressure and speed and forecheck 2 all the time. It's not that far off from Hak. Are you sure about the Wild using the same system as the Pens? Yeo uses a dump and chase system (which is super boring to watch). The Pens use the same system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokey the cat Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 I believe it is in the media guide on undsports.com. Thanks. I tried googling it different and found it. I had forgotten that Hak has a losing record against Wisconsin also. 13-14-3 overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrkac Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Are you sure about the Wild using the same system as the Pens? Yeo uses a dump and chase system (which is super boring to watch). The Pens use the same system? Yeo is from their organization and i've read that he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yzerman19 Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 I did not see St Cloud trapping in what I was watching, although I quit watching both games before they were over. Having dmen jump into the rush to score goals is not a characteristic of any trap that I know of- left wing or a 1-2-2 or 1-1-3 forecheck. The measure of Hak as a coach will be can he get it done with a more "average" talent club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 I am humored when people think that they could do a better job coaching the team from their couch. You mean everyone but me right? Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longfellow_Deeds Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 This is a middle of the pack team. In 2 years they could be real special with the recruits coming in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
808287 Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 ...The measure of Hak as a coach will be can he get it done with a more "average" talent club We did see encouraging signs of that a couple years back when we couldn't fill a roster for much of the second half of the season. A lot of freshies getting much more time on the ice than they would have otherwise. There was still a good second half surge, resulting in a tournament berth and loss to the goph's in the regional final. This after the six-goal comeback over the same Gophers at the Final Five. Did this club qualify as 'average' talent? Maybe not, because it had some great players on the ice making things happen...but it also had a lot of lunchpail down low and a coach who wouldn't let them quit when they could have easily bagged the season in February. Not sayin' it was 'Miracle' coaching, but I was proud to watch that team play with the heart they did. All that said, I expect more from this team, this season, especially if they can stay healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfhockey Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 serious question whens the last time hak has had a team that has over achieved? he has had a number of teams under achieved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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