Teeder11 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Clearly, in my mind, it is UND. The relationship between the two schools is so polarizing in the state for many reasons, including the ones you listed. But, growing up in ND and then playing in two NDSU v. UND games, I have seen how heated it can get. UND is clearly NDSU's rival institution. Right now, obviously we aren't playing in football and I would say our most heated rivalry in football in UNI. We have really developed some bad blood with them. Anyway, I don't want to be the cause of a thread drift. No, you're not drifting. I agree with you. Had you offered up a different rival, I would have followed up with: "Do you frequent Rival B's message board more or less than Siouxsports?" or "Do you have more or less fun on Siouxsports than on Rival B's message board?" All that said, (bringing it back to the topic that I replied to), for my money, I would want to play my biggest general rival every years in as many sports possible, including football, but I do understand that NDSU has its own yard to tend to. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted November 15, 2012 Author Share Posted November 15, 2012 Geaux Sioux is right. Attendance will continue to climb, but UND has some disadvantages. No need to turn another thread into a circus, but legitimate comparisons between NDSU and UND are fair. 1. Conference mates-closest conference game is Montana State, UND will never get a large contingency from the away team. NDSU has SDSU, USD and UNI that aren't traditionally teams that travel well, but if the game ends up being meaningful are close enough to at least fill thier team's tickets. 2. Stadium size-What is the capacity of the Alerus? 13k I think? Compared to 19k. 3. Hockey first school-sometimes downplayed, but once hockey season rolls around UND fans tend to choose the hockey games if they have a limited budget for their entertainment. For these reasons and others, NDSU will likely always have a better attendance on game day, but with winning comes people. This is the reason UND's attendance is where its at. If UND wants to get into NDSU range (percent capacity not avg or total attendance since the Fargodome is bigger) they need to win....plain and simple. Look at 2001 the Alerus was rocking and UND won a National Title that carried on for the next couple years as UND broke attendance records and was in the top 10 in the nation in DII attendance. But the big thing about that was WINNING. Like Bison06 said winning comes people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 I do agree he is not as bad as most, bit I still feel, even though he is more subtle, he has the same motives. I guess we can just disagree. I will take it a little easier on him. Well, if by same motives you mean that I will default to being an NDSU fan in an argument, I am definitely guilty of that. If the conversation has turned into a pissing match back and forth, I can be sarcastic and throw out the party line talking points as well as the next guy. But if the rest of the participants in the discussion are making valid points, I tend to be pretty civil and level headed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 No, you're not drifting. I agree with you. Had you offered up a different rival, I would have followed up with: "Do you frequent Rival B's message board more or less than Siouxsports?" or "Do you have more or less fun on Siouxsports than on Rival B's message board?" All that said, (bringing it back to the topic that I replied to), for my money, I would want to play my biggest general rival every years in as many sports possible, including football, but I do understand that NDSU has its own yard to tend to. Thanks! I tend to jump around to a lot of different message boards, lots of free time, too much sometimes. The reason I come here and post most often, even more than Bisonville sometimes, is you tend to learn a lot more from differing viewpoints. It gets boring for me to always get the homer opinion on things, I like to see how my favorite team is viewed by others who don't give money to the program. I have learned a lot by reading opposing teams message boards. I read and post on Bisonville for very different reasons then why I post and read here. Over there, you rarely find viewpoints that don't take the party line, so there is no need for me to post. I tend to agree with everything they are saying so why take the time to post? I go there to keep up with true insider information. Many of the posters know what is going on with my favorite team days, if not weeks before it is ever reported in the media. It's interesting to see this message board sub-culture when you read and post on many different teams' boards. There are different rules, inside jokes and even different dialects on each board. I truly do find it fascinating. For example, SS is much more formal than Bisonville. I think the average poster on bisonville is likely much younger than here. I believe there are actually a lot of NDSU students who post on bisonville and over here I believe it to be more alums than students. Panthernation is somewhere in between. Anygivensaturday is my favorite board to read because you get to see all different kinds of viewpoints and they are VERY informed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Good luck in this area in 2013! Casual fans aren't going to show up unless UND starts out winning a couple of big games early. Students are students...they'll show up for a winner. And serious fans/ticket holders are not happy with the status quo under the Muss tenure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted November 18, 2012 Author Share Posted November 18, 2012 2012 Attendance: 2011 Attendance: (some teams have more due to playoffs) #28 Total Attendance 53,770 #46 Total Attendance 47,045 (+6,725) #41 Average Attendance 8962 #60 Average Attendance 7841 (+1121) #35 Percent Capacity 72.96% #56 Percent Capacity 63.83% (+9.13%) This shows improvement due to a good conference and near zero DII/NAIA teams at the Alerus. More wins will mean more people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mg2009 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20121116/SPORTS0201/211160345/1131/Michigan-seeks-solution-student-no-shows-football-games Brandon said school officials have found the number of no-shows is related to kickoff time. A 3:30 game gets a better turnout than a noon game. The first night game at Michigan Stadium last season had the smallest number of no-shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 2012 Attendance: 2011 Attendance: (some teams have more due to playoffs) #28 Total Attendance 53,770 #46 Total Attendance 47,045 (+6,725) #41 Average Attendance 8962 #60 Average Attendance 7841 (+1121) #35 Percent Capacity 72.96% #56 Percent Capacity 63.83% (+9.13%) This shows improvement due to a good conference and near zero DII/NAIA teams at the Alerus. More wins will mean more people. Darrell: Thanks for this post. Do you have a link to this year's attendance? Numbers for Big Sky schools. Certainly UM and MSU are the leaders, but is Sac St third? Where does UND rank in the Sky? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Five Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I watched the 2nd half of Cal Poly and NAU, and with so much on the line for NAU the crowd sure was embarassing. We are more spoiled in this state than we realize at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 Darrell: Thanks for this post. Do you have a link to this year's attendance? Numbers for Big Sky schools. Certainly UM and MSU are the leaders, but is Sac St third? Where does UND rank in the Sky? http://web1.ncaa.org...attendance.html BSC (avg attendance): BSC rank, team, number, and FCS rank 1. Montana (25,236) (2) 2. MSU (18,224) (8) 3. Sac St (9109) (38) 4. UND (8962) (41) 5. Cal Poly (8566) (50) 6. EWU (8509) (52) 7. UC Davis (8215) (53) 8. WSU (7416) (62) 9. NAU (6787) (69) 10. PSU (5957) (78) 11. ISU (5918) (79) 12. SUU (5435) (83) 13. UNC (4248) (93) The one that surprised me was SUU. 12th?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 1st 4 games next yr are at the Al w 3 of em vs. Jacks, Griz and Cats. Lose those 3 to start 1-3 and Al will be empty rest of season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 1st 4 games next yr are at the Al w 3 of em vs. Jacks, Griz and Cats. Lose those 3 to start 1-3 and Al will be empty rest of season. But go 3-1 or 4-0 and the Al will be packed the rest of the season. It all depends on what UND does on the offseason to get the defense better and have Mollberg prepared. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homer Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 1st 4 games next yr are at the Al w 3 of em vs. Jacks, Griz and Cats. Lose those 3 to start 1-3 and Al will be empty rest of season. True, but a big win over Valpo, a win against the Jacks (who is a familiar oppenent and will draw a nice crowd), and a strong showing against the Griz (who will also bring a nice crowd) can set the tone for the rest of the year at home. The only game of those 4 which I'd put us as long shots against is the Cats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 True, but a big win over Valpo, a win against the Jacks (who is a familiar oppenent and will draw a nice crowd), and a strong showing against the Griz (who will also bring a nice crowd) can set the tone for the rest of the year at home. The only game of those 4 which I'd put us as long shots against is the Cats. Based on this year and players returning, I'll be surprised if the Griz is ranked higher than the Jacks to start the season next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonadub Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Based on this year and players returning, I'll be surprised if the Griz is ranked higher than the Jacks to start the season next year. History will give the Griz the benefit of the doubt, just like Northern Iowa this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDColorado Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I don't have much to go on here other than some chatter on the e griz board and gut instinct, but if the buyout for the Montana game is only 100k then I bet they exercise that. We should be on the lookout for another team like Valpo to come in. NO D2! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 History will give the Griz the benefit of the doubt, just like Northern Iowa this year. Don't get me wrong-I agree the Griz will be ranked (and ala' UNI, many will feel they shouldn't be), but coming off this season's disaster they won't be higher than a playoff team that finished 2nd in their conference that returns key starters. If UND beats the Jacks, they will be favored vs the Griz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnboyND7 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 History will give the Griz the benefit of the doubt, just like Northern Iowa this year. Coming into this year UNI deserved to be ranked. Montana too IMO. I totally didn't see these two trainwreck seasons coming. It was kinda fun to scoreboard watch though and see them both losing games left and right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodcon Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 The Montana Board of Regents released some information regarding sports revenue last week, the Griz football program posted a $3.3 million profit and the Bobcats posted a $1.15 million profit for fiscal 2012, does anybody know what the numbers are for UND and NDSU? Also the bottom line for the hockey team, I would think that would be a big number? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDBIZ Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 The Montana Board of Regents released some information regarding sports revenue last week, the Griz football program posted a $3.3 million profit and the Bobcats posted a $1.15 million profit for fiscal 2012, does anybody know what the numbers are for UND and NDSU? Also the bottom line for the hockey team, I would think that would be a big number? I don't know the numbers but UND's football program must have operated in the red the past few years at least. You can't turn a profit without fans in the stands. If Moo U is turning a profit, I doubt it's much of one, it all depends on the accounting gimmicks used. Speaking of which, do the Montanas' numbers include student fees, state aid, etc as revenue? Also, how do they share expenses (athletic department staff, facilities, etc.) with the other athletic programs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodcon Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I don't know the numbers but UND's football program must have operated in the red the past few years at least. You can't turn a profit without fans in the stands. If Moo U is turning a profit, I doubt it's much of one, it all depends on the accounting gimmicks used. Speaking of which, do the Montanas' numbers include student fees, state aid, etc as revenue? Also, how do they share expenses (athletic department staff, facilities, etc.) with the other athletic programs? Finally found it, it looks like the total revenue was about 9 miilion with 1.6 M coming from direct institutional support and the rest coming from football-only sources. The expenses were about 5.7 M and seem to cover everything including a 900k facilities maintenance charge (I can't think of what they did) and a 500k other operating expenses charge. Looks like they used student fees, royalties and advertising, and 1.9 M of the contributions to cover what they term 'non-program specific' fees like support staff, facilities maintenance, etc. for all sports offered at the university, so it looks like football money funded a good chunk of that too. Looking at it football was the only program that even came close to making money, the next closest one was women's golf at a 112k loss. Men's hoops lost 226k and women's hoops 443k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDBIZ Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Finally found it, it looks like the total revenue was about 9 miilion with 1.6 M coming from direct institutional support and the rest coming from football-only sources. The expenses were about 5.7 M and seem to cover everything including a 900k facilities maintenance charge (I can't think of what they did) and a 500k other operating expenses charge. Looks like they used student fees, royalties and advertising, and 1.9 M of the contributions to cover what they term 'non-program specific' fees like support staff, facilities maintenance, etc. for all sports offered at the university, so it looks like football money funded a good chunk of that too. Looking at it football was the only program that even came close to making money, the next closest one was women's golf at a 112k loss. Men's hoops lost 226k and women's hoops 443k. College athletics are money losers for pretty much everybody (if you don't count the student fees and other revenue sources being used to support them). However, they do create publicity for the school and something for students, alums, and potential students to attach themselves to, creating a stronger bond between the university and the community. End result is DONATIONS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodcon Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 College athletics are money losers for pretty much everybody (if you don't count the student fees and other revenue sources being used to support them). However, they do create publicity for the school and something for students, alums, and potential students to attach themselves to, creating a stronger bond between the university and the community. End result is DONATIONS. I agree, it's probably pretty rare for any sport to make money but I would guess UND hockey must be in the black, and FU football should be fairly close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammersmith Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Finally found it, it looks like the total revenue was about 9 miilion with 1.6 M coming from direct institutional support and the rest coming from football-only sources. The expenses were about 5.7 M and seem to cover everything including a 900k facilities maintenance charge (I can't think of what they did) and a 500k other operating expenses charge. Looks like they used student fees, royalties and advertising, and 1.9 M of the contributions to cover what they term 'non-program specific' fees like support staff, facilities maintenance, etc. for all sports offered at the university, so it looks like football money funded a good chunk of that too. Looking at it football was the only program that even came close to making money, the next closest one was women's golf at a 112k loss. Men's hoops lost 226k and women's hoops 443k. Curious: Are you referring to Montana, NDSU or UND with these numbers? It's a little unclear with the way this discussion has unfolded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodcon Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Curious: Are you referring to Montana, NDSU or UND with these numbers? It's a little unclear with the way this discussion has unfolded. Montana football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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