Some Thoughts on UND's FB Program

[jdub27]

21 minutes ago, nodak651 said:

I don't think his comment was really about about coach speak and I think you're putting words in his mouth.  Chaves being MIA, questionable standards, and a lack of innovation within the athletic department just makes "coach speak" particularly annoying, especially when "the little things" and "effort" aren't the root problem.  That's what I think the point was at least.

The amount of complaining I've heard about coaches not being specific enough the last 12 months or so might have just pushed my button enough that's what stood out. People don't seem like they would be happy unless players are getting publicly lashed.

We won't completely agree on the AD thing, and that's fine. I do think some of those items could easily be improved on. That being said, there is a lot more info out there available for consumption if people bothered. I know you have listened to his podcast, where he puts quite a bit of stuff out there. Moreso than what I would see from any of our regional peer schools. And at least he takes the time to announce our coaches extensions (to the chagrin of some).

I know that you probably have some pretty good examples but I would truly be curious what other schools are doing different from the AD department and communication to fans that could be emulated. Because I think the AD would legitimately try to do some of that if it was truly worthwhile.

[Mama Sue]

There are always ways to improve and there will always be nit picking. 
We do need some leadership…case on point: the U of M is now working with a non-profit for NIL. The paper states the U admits they are behind (some Miami college has $2M available for athletes).

Do we have something going on this? The article also stated the next generation of athletes are not interested in relationships and how they fit into a program….the transfer portal is “show me the money.” I hope that is just a generalization.

I think I miss outdoor stadiums and small scoreboards. But we need to keep up to be competitive.

[Walsh Hall]

Does the Champion's Club conduct charitable gaming?

[UNDBIZ]

3 hours ago, Walsh Hall said:

Does the Champion's Club conduct charitable gaming?

No

[CMSioux]

3 hours ago, Walsh Hall said:

Does the Champion's Club conduct charitable gaming?

Chavez said most charitable gaming in the area is already locked down. 

[Walsh Hall]

Charitable gaming should be a high priority.  With the massive increase of proceeds from “electronic pull tabs” that’s a big miss.  Many charities are purchasing liquor establishment just to “lock down” the gambling $.

[nodak651]

2 minutes ago, Walsh Hall said:

Charitable gaming should be a high priority.  With the massive increase of proceeds from “electronic pull tabs” that’s a big miss.  Many charities are purchasing liquor establishment just to “lock down” the gambling $.

A sports bar at the REA would be perfect for this. 

Still baffles me that UND Athletics or the Champions Club isn't the recipient for gambling at Playmakers, which is the official pre and post game gathering site for UND Athletics.  

"Playmaker’s All American Lounge is a “boutique casino” where players try their luck at blackjack and games of chance. The lounge features, and pays tribute to, the All Americans from the University of North Dakota. Playmaker’s All American Lounge is the official pre and post game gathering site for UND Athletics. Meet friends at Playmaker’s All American Lounge and relax with drinks and snacks as you watch the big game."

[nodak651]

If there is a bar that opens up on one of UND's P3 properties, what are the odds that UND is the recipient to gaming activities.  Thinking a place like Great Shots or Top Golf if it gets built at Ray Richards.

[jdub27]

The charitable gaming thing is something I've asked directly about as it relates UND Athletics. The comments that it is locked down around down is pretty spot on. To get a "new" spot, you basically have to take it from someone else. As the State sets the gaming rules, you can't offer anything different than what anyone else can. It is basically at the whim of the owner of the establishment (which is why there was an article about non-profits buying bars a few months ago).

The "optics" of taking an existing spot from a charity aren't real great. So the other option is to basically hope that you can get into a new spot that didn't previously have gaming (recent examples: Hugo's downtown, BWW's, Rhombus). They all went with just e-tabs, so the overhead of running them is actually pretty low.

The other issues is that if you are looking at doing full gaming, with blackjack, pigwheel, pulltabs plus the e-tabs, the overhead starts to add up a lot quicker. You basically need a couple different sights to make it worthwhile (for example Team Makers has something like 6-8 different sights). You can't really dip your toes into the water with one or two unless they are big spots. That's likely why UND never had Playmakers (plus the place is hardly open anyway).

That being said, if there was a chance to add a spot at Memorial Village and Ray Richards (assuming both have some sort of option to do so) and you could add Playmakers to the mix, I think its a no-brainer to explore it. Also gives you the ability to be in the mix for any new spots that might open up.

[nodak651]

3 hours ago, jdub27 said:

The charitable gaming thing is something I've asked directly about as it relates UND Athletics. The comments that it is locked down around down is pretty spot on. To get a "new" spot, you basically have to take it from someone else. As the State sets the gaming rules, you can't offer anything different than what anyone else can. It is basically at the whim of the owner of the establishment (which is why there was an article about non-profits buying bars a few months ago).

The "optics" of taking an existing spot from a charity aren't real great. So the other option is to basically hope that you can get into a new spot that didn't previously have gaming (recent examples: Hugo's downtown, BWW's, Rhombus). They all went with just e-tabs, so the overhead of running them is actually pretty low.

The other issues is that if you are looking at doing full gaming, with blackjack, pigwheel, pulltabs plus the e-tabs, the overhead starts to add up a lot quicker. You basically need a couple different sights to make it worthwhile (for example Team Makers has something like 6-8 different sights). You can't really dip your toes into the water with one or two unless they are big spots. That's likely why UND never had Playmakers (plus the place is hardly open anyway).

That being said, if there was a chance to add a spot at Memorial Village and Ray Richards (assuming both have some sort of option to do so) and you could add Playmakers to the mix, I think its a no-brainer to explore it. Also gives you the ability to be in the mix for any new spots that might open up.

Also, why limit it to Grand Forks?  Any new restaurants in Bismarck, Williston, etc?  We are the university of North Dakota, no?

Edit:  I get where you're coming from - just sounds like excuses for why they will never start.  Leaders are "no" people.

 

[SIOUXFAN97]

3 hours ago, nodak651 said:

A sports bar at the REA would be perfect for this. 

Still baffles me that UND Athletics or the Champions Club isn't the recipient for gambling at Playmakers, which is the official pre and post game gathering site for UND Athletics.  

"Playmaker’s All American Lounge is a “boutique casino” where players try their luck at blackjack and games of chance. The lounge features, and pays tribute to, the All Americans from the University of North Dakota. Playmaker’s All American Lounge is the official pre and post game gathering site for UND Athletics. Meet friends at Playmaker’s All American Lounge and relax with drinks and snacks as you watch the big game."

wouldn't the old suite 43 been a building the REA foundation could've bought after it closed and opened a "playmakers bar/restaurant" with gambling right there?

[Hawkster]

4 hours ago, nodak651 said:

A sports bar at the REA would be perfect for this. 

 

If we did, KEM would want half the proceeds.   Don't kid yourself.

[Irish]

On 4/3/2023 at 3:11 PM, jdub27 said:

The amount of complaining I've heard about coaches not being specific enough the last 12 months or so might have just pushed my button enough that's what stood out. People don't seem like they would be happy unless players are getting publicly lashed.

We won't completely agree on the AD thing, and that's fine. I do think some of those items could easily be improved on. That being said, there is a lot more info out there available for consumption if people bothered. I know you have listened to his podcast, where he puts quite a bit of stuff out there. Moreso than what I would see from any of our regional peer schools. And at least he takes the time to announce our coaches extensions (to the chagrin of some).

I know that you probably have some pretty good examples but I would truly be curious what other schools are doing different from the AD department and communication to fans that could be emulated. Because I think the AD would legitimately try to do some of that if it was truly worthwhile.

No one wants any individual players to be "publicly lashed".  The info I would like is much more big picture.  Both Football and Hockey have had trouble when it comes time for the playoffs - and it has been going on for a while.  Most of the problems generally involve recruitment, development, and possibly program philosophies.   The specifics have been mentioned many times on the boards - what are some specific things we are planning as a program to improve this situation?  Are we going to do what we have always done only more-so or will some changes be made?    And we absolutely can't afford to get behind in the NIL race.  How many years are we going to wait for a playoff win in either program?  

[fightingsioux4life]

36 minutes ago, Hawkster said:

If we did, KEM would want half the proceeds.   Don't kid yourself.

Half? Probably more like 75 or 80 percent. Don't kid yourself.

[jdub27]

3 hours ago, nodak651 said:

Also, why limit it to Grand Forks?  Any new restaurants in Bismarck, Williston, etc?  We are the university of North Dakota, no?

Edit:  I get where you're coming from - just sounds like excuses for why they will never start.  Leaders are "no" people.

 

I assume because you need to build out the infrastructure into those towns as well and you run into the economy of scales issue the as well. The is a lot of oversight and overhead that go into a full scale operation. And the competion there is no different anywhere else in the state.

Now, if they can pick up some e-tab spots in various spots to get things rolling, that's a no-brainer to get things at least started. 

I get where you're coming because I've questioned it a fair amount and again, directly asked the question. I've also worked with some of the nonprofits that do it and there's a big chunk of overhead that comes with it and the competition is absolutely cutthroat, most of which comes from how the state regulates it. 

[UNDBIZ]

19 hours ago, Walsh Hall said:

Charitable gaming should be a high priority.  With the massive increase of proceeds from “electronic pull tabs” that’s a big miss.  Many charities are purchasing liquor establishment just to “lock down” the gambling $.

Banning collegiate athletics booster organizations from profiting from charitable gaming should be a high priority.  If we're going to have "charitable" gaming, it should be for actual charitable organizations.

[Walsh Hall]

1 hour ago, UNDBIZ said:

Banning collegiate athletics booster organizations from profiting from charitable gaming should be a high priority.  If we're going to have "charitable" gaming, it should be for actual charitable organizations.

I wouldn't be opposed in theory, but that would be a difficult line to draw as a ton of the "charities" are related to youth athletics to try to mitigate the costs for parents or improve the competitive advantage of a program, or other non-profits that many may not consider to be under the umbrella term of a "charity."

[Walsh Hall]

14 hours ago, jdub27 said:

I assume because you need to build out the infrastructure into those towns as well and you run into the economy of scales issue the as well. The is a lot of oversight and overhead that go into a full scale operation. And the competion there is no different anywhere else in the state.

Now, if they can pick up some e-tab spots in various spots to get things rolling, that's a no-brainer to get things at least started. 

I get where you're coming because I've questioned it a fair amount and again, directly asked the question. I've also worked with some of the nonprofits that do it and there's a big chunk of overhead that comes with it and the competition is absolutely cutthroat, most of which comes from how the state regulates it. 

I largely agree.  My only difference of option would be that I'd be a bit more optimistic on the ability of the Champion's Club, with a competent manager, to acquire gaming sites.   The management of multiple sites isn't a trivial consideration, but it would definitely be a worthwhile endeavor.  A quick look indicates that Teammakers made over 700K on charitable gaming pre-pandemic and pre E-tabs.  

[geaux_sioux]

16 hours ago, Irish said:

No one wants any individual players to be "publicly lashed".  The info I would like is much more big picture.  Both Football and Hockey have had trouble when it comes time for the playoffs - and it has been going on for a while.  Most of the problems generally involve recruitment, development, and possibly program philosophies.   The specifics have been mentioned many times on the boards - what are some specific things we are planning as a program to improve this situation?  Are we going to do what we have always done only more-so or will some changes be made?    And we absolutely can't afford to get behind in the NIL race.  How many years are we going to wait for a playoff win in either program?  

Well hockey is gonna have to actually make the tournament to have a chance at a playoff win

[UNDBIZ]

2 hours ago, Walsh Hall said:

I wouldn't be opposed in theory, but that would be a difficult line to draw as a ton of the "charities" are related to youth athletics to try to mitigate the costs for parents or improve the competitive advantage of a program, or other non-profits that many may not consider to be under the umbrella term of a "charity."

I find the line between pee wee hockey and collegiate athletics to be a bit more bold.

[lawkota]

2 hours ago, Walsh Hall said:

I largely agree.  My only difference of option would be that I'd be a bit more optimistic on the ability of the Champion's Club, with a competent manager, to acquire gaming sites.   The management of multiple sites isn't a trivial consideration, but it would definitely be a worthwhile endeavor.  A quick look indicates that Teammakers made over 700K on charitable gaming pre-pandemic and pre E-tabs.  

I'm fairly sure that Team Makers is a distinct entity, separate from the NDSU Foundation.  The Champion's Club is not.  It is part of the UND Foundation and I highly doubt you are going to get the Foundation board interested in gaming.  But nothing is stopping anyone else from forming a 501(c) dedicated non-profit for the purpose of supporting UND Athletics.  Team Makers strength is that is only concerned with supporting athletics.  It might be a good thing to remove some of UND athletic fundraising away from the Foundation and a good example why might be the Aerospace Foundation, which is not part of the UND Foundation and has about $75 million in net assets.  

[lawkota]

4 hours ago, Walsh Hall said:

I wouldn't be opposed in theory, but that would be a difficult line to draw as a ton of the "charities" are related to youth athletics to try to mitigate the costs for parents or improve the competitive advantage of a program, or other non-profits that many may not consider to be under the umbrella term of a "charity."

Team Makers has 7 sites in Fargo/WF, including the Dome and Scheel's Center, out of some 70+ sites in the market.  So they don't dominate, although they have some prime spots in Lucky's, Frank's and the Holiday Inn.  (They don't have Herd n' Horns, Legion baseball does.  I thought that was funny.)

In Grand Forks, the organizations with the most sites is Development Homes, with 9 sites, and LISTEN, with 7.  The Blue Line Club has 3, and GF Youth Hockey 5. 

BTW, REA has a gaming license.  Their only site is the arena, so I assume they need it to do the 50/50.

[Hawkster]

9 hours ago, UNDBIZ said:

Banning collegiate athletics booster organizations from profiting from charitable gaming should be a high priority.  If we're going to have "charitable" gaming, it should be for actual charitable organizations.

But is that any different that boosters getting a charitable tax deduction for donating to college athletics?   I certainly don't see the difference.   I'd rather UND find a way to get into the gaming business somehow.     Banning gaming would lead to a rather slippery slope

[Mama Sue]

Many organizations have a 502c3 that is charitable (ie serves a public purpose). Our golf club just started gambling and their 501c3 is to benefit youth golf. A public charity has to benefit the public, that is not individuals.

I do think gambling to benefit the “team” serves a public purpose. Serving the team Cold be equipment, training, physical space, technology, not sure how it works with NIL. 
I hope someone works on this.

[planetearth]

16 hours ago, lawkota said:

Team Makers has 7 sites in Fargo/WF, including the Dome and Scheel's Center, out of some 70+ sites in the market.  So they don't dominate, although they have some prime spots in Lucky's, Frank's and the Holiday Inn.  (They don't have Herd n' Horns, Legion baseball does.  I thought that was funny.)

In Grand Forks, the organizations with the most sites is Development Homes, with 9 sites, and LISTEN, with 7.  The Blue Line Club has 3, and GF Youth Hockey 5. 

BTW, REA has a gaming license.  Their only site is the arena, so I assume they need it to do the 50/50.

Does the Blue Line Club also donate to GFYHA?