UND @ NDSU 11/19/2022

[The Sicatoka]

Frankly, NDSU runs some smallish DEs but they are right-sized for their schema. 

[geaux_sioux]

Just now, The Sicatoka said:

Frankly, NDSU runs some smallish DEs but they are right-sized for their schema. 

They certainly do not. They sometimes have one smaller speed rusher. Smaller as in 240-250 unless they’re a fr.

[The Sicatoka]

They were running a 225-230 guy at RDE for big chunks of the SIU game. He was an up-field rush guy (QB contain). Then again, we try that with our stand-up ROLB and he runs 210.

[geaux_sioux]

Just now, The Sicatoka said:

They were running a 225-230 guy at RDE for big chunks of the SIU game. He was an up-field rush guy (QB contain). 

Right, one spot not both.

[wheelsup]

23 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

I know most of you aren’t a fan of Mauch and his antics but I think he’s a top tier troll and I respect it because his play more than backs it up.

 

I actually agree 100%.. by the way if you have a problem with this go check out our fellas when we played Youngstown this year.

it would have been nice if our guys played more like they did against YSU and less like they did against NDSU.

[Siouxperman8]

1 hour ago, geaux_sioux said:

I know most of you aren’t a fan of Mauch and his antics but I think he’s a top tier troll and I respect it because his play more than backs it up.

 

I paid attention to him quite a bit on Saturday. I didn’t know anything about him but I sat next to his cousin the week before at the UND hockey game.   He’s a special needs man and was very proud to tell me about his cousin.  Told me I’d recognize him by his hair.  I asked if he could get him to transfer to UND but he laughed at me and said he didn’t think so. 

[iramurphy]

2 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

Frankly, NDSU runs some smallish DEs but they are right-sized for their schema. 

Except for Wegge or however he spells it. He’s 6’5” 285 lbs.  Other guy I think is 240 range. 

[CMSioux]

3 hours ago, wheelsup said:

I actually agree 100%.. by the way if you have a problem with this go check out our fellas when we played Youngstown this year.

it would have been nice if our guys played more like they did against YSU and less like they did against NDSU.

Yup noticed quite a few penguin walks at Youngstown - If you don't do it in an opponents face or to their bench it's all in fun I guess. 

[JohnboyND7]

22 hours ago, geaux_sioux said:

I know most of you aren’t a fan of Mauch and his antics but I think he’s a top tier troll and I respect it because his play more than backs it up.

 

I don't mind trolling.  But that is sorta asking for a taunting flag.  Pretty fun though to see linemen show a little personality though.

[UND-FB-FAN]

On 11/24/2022 at 8:57 AM, iramurphy said:

SDSU Defensive participation against us:

DL:

6’3” 250lbs , 6’4”245lbs, 6’4” 280lbs and 6’1” 270lbs  

LB:

5’9” 200lbs, 6’1” 200lbs, 6’215lbs  

Our players are big enough  I did similar comparison earlier with NDSU size on OL and DL  “It ain’t this size of the dog in the fight it’s the size of the fight in the dog”. 
We can’t seem to stay focused on the topic  The fact is if you look at film you can’t tell why we made good plays or why we failed  So much of what is pontificated is nonsense.  Some of you have no answer except fire all of the coaches  Everything is their fault. It isn’t. It’s their  responsibility  Some think we aren’t big enough but comparing ht and wt from team rosters doesn’t bear that out.  This thread should be focused on the next game and Weber State.  If we play up to our full capabilities we can win this  We can’t miss assignments, we can’t miss tackles, we can’t have stupid penalties, we have to cover punts  and KO’s and all 11 guys need to do their job every play all day long  If we do that we can win  It doesn’t matter what the program says about ht and wt  The program doesn’t list heart and desire.  Go Hawks  

 

The fight in the dog for UND has been disappointing in big games. Need to either train a meaner dog or get a new one. 
 

Perpetually defending the coaches is also an extreme end of the spectrum. Everyone needs to do their job. The current program is stale. 
 

Development is key, but eliminating termination as an option is narrow-minded and foolish, in my opinion.

 

As for the reality of the situation, carry on. No major changes coming. It’s about everyone doing their job better. 

[iramurphy]

9 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

The fight in the dog for UND has been disappointing in big games. Need to either train a meaner dog or get a new one. 
 

Perpetually defending the coaches is also an extreme end of the spectrum. Everyone needs to do their job. The current program is stale. 
 

Development is key, but eliminating termination as an option is narrow-minded and foolish, in my opinion.

 

As for the reality of the situation, carry on. No major changes coming. It’s about everyone doing their job better. 

My comments aren’t defending the coaches. It is a comment on the regurgitation of the same stuff week after week by the same posters. I have commented that I believe it derails many discussions. I have felt because there will be no change during the middle of a season it serves no purpose to insert the same complaints about coaches into virtually every discussion. I have believed that before we make wholesale change we better have a viable solution in place that we have full confidence will not set the program back but will likely be an improvement. Most of the fire the coach comments don’t show much more than a shallow understanding (if that much) as to the total picture and the complexities of building or tearing down a program. I am of the opinion that I support my staff up until the day I let them go. Each year staff is evaluated and among other things, they are asked what else they need to be successful. Then as an employer or a supervisor, before I consider change I self evaluate as to whether or not I have provided all of the resources that we mutually agreed were necessary for success. I am not sure that means I’m narrow minded or not. You may think so but I don’t believe I see a depth of understanding in the majority of fire people posts. Some want faster receivers. I posed the question: how fast is fast enough?.  4.6 fast enough? We know 40 times but I would rather know how quick we get off the LOS, how quick we can accelerate to full speed, how quick can we play FB within 20yds on both sides of the LOS. Arguably the fastest WR in our history struggled to catch the FB. We need bigger guys. Our listed sizes are similar to listed sizes for NDSU and SDSU. This is a pretty darn good group of asst coaches and from what recruits and parents have told me they do a good job. Show me an upgrade and I’m all for it, but let’s do that when the season is over. If that’s narrow minded then I’m guilty. Otherwise these guys have slowly improved the program so they have my public support until I see a change that will do better. Just my opinion which is no more valid than most anyone else’s. 

[shep]

5 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

My comments aren’t defending the coaches. It is a comment on the regurgitation of the same stuff week after week by the same poster. I have commented that I believe it derails many discussions. I have felt because their will be no change during the middle of a season it serves no purpose to insert the same complaints about coaches into virtually every discussion. I have believed that before we make wholesale change we better have a viable solution in place that we have full confidence will not set the program back but will likely be an improvement. Most of the fire the coach comments don’t show much more than a shallow understanding (if that much) as to the total picture and the complexities of building or tearing down a program. I am of the opinion that I support my staff up until the day I let them go. Each year staff is evaluated and among other things, they are asked what else they need to be successful. Then as an employer or a supervisor, before I consider change I self evaluate as to whether or not I have provided all of the resources that we mutually agreed were necessary for success. I am not sure that means I’m narrow minded or not. You may think so but I don’t believe I see a depth of understanding in the majority of fire people posts. Some want faster receivers. I posed the question: how fast is fast enough?.  4.6 fast enough? We know 40 times but I would rather know how quick we get off the LOS, how quick we can accelerate to full speed, how quick can we play FB within 20yds on both sides of the LOS. Arguably the fastest WR in our history struggled to catch the FB. We need bigger guys. Our listed sizes are similar to listed sizes for NDSU and SDSU. This is a pretty darn good group of asst coaches and from what recruits and parents have told me they do a good job. Show me an upgrade and I’m all for it, but let’s do that when the season is over. If that’s narrow minded then I’m guilty. Otherwise these guys have slowly improved the program so they have my public support until I see a change that will do better. Just my opinion which is no more valid than most anyone else’s. 

Always enjoy your perspective. It's not emotional, it's not angry, it's just to the point.

[geaux_sioux]

2 hours ago, iramurphy said:

My comments aren’t defending the coaches. It is a comment on the regurgitation of the same stuff week after week by the same posters. I have commented that I believe it derails many discussions. I have felt because their will be no change during the middle of a season it serves no purpose to insert the same complaints about coaches into virtually every discussion. I have believed that before we make wholesale change we better have a viable solution in place that we have full confidence will not set the program back but will likely be an improvement. Most of the fire the coach comments don’t show much more than a shallow understanding (if that much) as to the total picture and the complexities of building or tearing down a program. I am of the opinion that I support my staff up until the day I let them go. Each year staff is evaluated and among other things, they are asked what else they need to be successful. Then as an employer or a supervisor, before I consider change I self evaluate as to whether or not I have provided all of the resources that we mutually agreed were necessary for success. I am not sure that means I’m narrow minded or not. You may think so but I don’t believe I see a depth of understanding in the majority of fire people posts. Some want faster receivers. I posed the question: how fast is fast enough?.  4.6 fast enough? We know 40 times but I would rather know how quick we get off the LOS, how quick we can accelerate to full speed, how quick can we play FB within 20yds on both sides of the LOS. Arguably the fastest WR in our history struggled to catch the FB. We need bigger guys. Our listed sizes are similar to listed sizes for NDSU and SDSU. This is a pretty darn good group of asst coaches and from what recruits and parents have told me they do a good job. Show me an upgrade and I’m all for it, but let’s do that when the season is over. If that’s narrow minded then I’m guilty. Otherwise these guys have slowly improved the program so they have my public support until I see a change that will do better. Just my opinion which is no more valid than most anyone else’s. 

4.6 is fast enough for Kooper Kupp. But he’s an unbelievable route runner and player in general to go with it.

[iramurphy]

52 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

4.6 is fast enough for Kooper Kupp. But he’s an unbelievable route runner and player in general to go with it.

So tell me, how fast is good enough?

[Oxbow6]

6 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

So tell me, how fast is good enough?

Faster than the guy across from you in most cases is preferred.

[iramurphy]

I would rather have a WR who runs disciplined routes, can accelerate off his breaks and can catch the ball. If they can do that, 4.6 is fast enough at every level. 4.4 would be even better but 1 or 2 tenths Having been around 4 different NFL teams I think people would be surprised at how many WR and DBs are no faster than 4.6. In the first 20-30 yds there is little distance between a 4.5 guy and a 4.6 or even 4.7 guys. I want bigger, faster guys at every position,  so you are correct. I believe we have enough size and speed at our offensive skill positions. I’d like to see our guys quicker OL, DL, LB and esp DB but we are where we are and I think we can still be successful. 

[Bison06]

1 hour ago, iramurphy said:

I would rather have a WR who runs disciplined routes, can accelerate off his breaks and can catch the ball. If they can do that, 4.6 is fast enough at every level. 4.4 would be even better but 1 or 2 tenths Having been around 4 different NFL teams I think people would be surprised at how many WR and DBs are no faster than 4.6. In the first 20-30 yds there is little distance between a 4.5 guy and a 4.6 or even 4.7 guys. I want bigger, faster guys at every position,  so you are correct. I believe we have enough size and speed at our offensive skill positions. I’d like to see our guys quicker OL, DL, LB and esp DB but we are where we are and I think we can still be successful. 

I agree with everything you’re saying. Taking a big picture look though, 4.6 and 4.7 receivers in the nfl are the exception rather than the rule. To play at a high level at that speed you need to be elite at the other elements of being a great receiver eg. Hands, route running, situation awareness etc.

Speed isn’t everything at the position, but it matters.

As an example, running great routes doesn’t mean as much if a db can sit on routes knowing he doesn’t have to flip his hips early to cover the home run. 

Speed is an element of the game that drives fear into defensive backs. Getting beat for 10-15 yards over and over again is annoying and frustrating, but it isn’t embarrassing like getting beat over the top is. When lined up against 4.3 guys, a db and/or defensive coordinator is constantly thinking about getting beat deep and that opens up a lot of other routes. Coverage gets rolled that way, a safety gets rolled to that side over the top to stop the deep ball and that’s one more player not showing up in the run game.

I agree with your premise, speed isn’t absolutely needed for success at the receiver position, but being scary fast can wreak havoc on defensive schemes without a doubt.
 

https://ftw.usatoday.com/lists/the-wide-receivers-who-ran-slow-at-the-nfl-combine-and-still-had-pretty-good-careers

[iramurphy]

Obviously 4.3 is going to be game planned much differently than 4.6. It goes without saying that as you move up, each level from HS to D2 to FCS to FBS players at all positions tend to be bigger and faster. My point is that we have receivers that run 4.5-4.6 at we are fine at WR. Happy to have a 4.3-4.4 guy but they are rare. Your guy Watson was faster but had a rep for drops. Continued early this year but his size and speed can be game breakers when he catches the ball. I think the biggest asset for NDSU and SDSU linemen is their foot speed and athletic ability as well as their physical strength. 

[iramurphy]

2 hours ago, Oxbow6 said:

Faster than the guy across from you in most cases is preferred.

Yup, at all positions. 

[Bison06]

18 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

Obviously 4.3 is going to be game planned much differently than 4.6. It goes without saying that as you move up, each level from HS to D2 to FCS to FBS players at all positions tend to be bigger and faster. My point is that we have receivers that run 4.5-4.6 at we are fine at WR. Happy to have a 4.3-4.4 guy but they are rare. Your guy Watson was faster but had a rep for drops. Continued early this year but his size and speed can be game breakers when he catches the ball. I think the biggest asset for NDSU and SDSU linemen is their foot speed and athletic ability as well as their physical strength. 

Without Belquist, who seems to my eye to have elite athleticism and skill, but may be a 4.5 guy(could be wrong here) you’re receiving core would be well below average.

[iramurphy]

4 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

Without Belquist, who seems to my eye to have elite athleticism and skill, but may be a 4.5 guy(could be wrong here) you’re receiving core would be well below average.

I agree Belquist is special. I would guess he is a 4.5-4.6 guy. Dennis is reportedly faster. Wright is probably a 4.6. Wilson is a 4.5-4.6 RB slot WR. Maag has proven himself an effective Receiver.  Our TE’s are decent but very under utilized as receivers. They all block well and they can catch. This isn’t an elite group because of average overall speed but I would rate them above average. 

[geaux_sioux]

13 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

I agree Belquist is special. I would guess he is a 4.5-4.6 guy. Dennis is reportedly faster. Wright is probably a 4.6. Wilson is a 4.5-4.6 RB slot WR. Maag has proven himself an effective Receiver.  Our TE’s are decent but very under utilized as receivers. They all block well and they can catch. This isn’t an elite group because of average overall speed but I would rate them above average. 

In testing Maag is our fastest wr. Doesn’t exactly translate to the field though. I’ll die on the hill that we need at least one track star type deep threat on the team to be an elite offense. Everything changes with a true deep threat. 

Another interesting thing is KK is one of our fastest players but he gets torched every single game. So as we’ve said, speed is only one facet. Awareness is king though.

[SuhakiYeahYeah]

7 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

In testing Maag is our fastest wr. Doesn’t exactly translate to the field though. I’ll die on the hill that we need at least one track star type deep threat on the team to be an elite offense. Everything changes with a true deep threat. 

Another interesting thing is KK is one of our fastest players but he gets torched every single game. So as we’ve said, speed is only one facet. Awareness is king though.

Possibly phoning Caden Dennis?

[UND-FB-FAN]

11 hours ago, iramurphy said:

Obviously 4.3 is going to be game planned much differently than 4.6. It goes without saying that as you move up, each level from HS to D2 to FCS to FBS players at all positions tend to be bigger and faster. My point is that we have receivers that run 4.5-4.6 at we are fine at WR. Happy to have a 4.3-4.4 guy but they are rare. Your guy Watson was faster but had a rep for drops. Continued early this year but his size and speed can be game breakers when he catches the ball. I think the biggest asset for NDSU and SDSU linemen is their foot speed and athletic ability as well as their physical strength. 

To sum it up, everyone wants big, strong, fast players. NDSU and SDSU have bigger, stronger, faster players than most programs in the FCS, hence their success.

 

Development is key still, no doubt, but recruiting big, strong, fast high school kids (or signing FBS drop downs or JuCo players) is still important. 
 

Although scheme (Xs and Os) matters, and NDSU and SDSU do well with it, there’s still no debate you have to have a team full of good football players with measurables, also. 
 

UND receiving corps has Belquist, but everyone else is below average. Can’t run, 4.6 is a stretch for most of the roster, and the ones that can run (Dennis) need to get into the weight room. Maag is slow on the football field. I like Red Wilson - he’s been good for UND this season. 

[SiouxFan100]

I don’t remember a lot of dropped passes this year.