2020 Dumpster Fire (Enter at your own risk)

[Hayduke1]

13 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

Deaths were going down.  Look at the chart.  Now they suddenly went up and you act like you were right the entire time.  

Oh, did I ruin your happy little place? 

So sorry....

[SIOUXFAN97]

On 7/8/2020 at 3:41 PM, Bison Dan said:

70% of black children have no fathers, that can be a large reason.  Also "I'm a victim mentality is another one".  If this is such racist country how come asian citizens have little to no problems? 

boom mike drop...also native born africans that come to american make more than native born whites in america....the difference?  the mom and dad in africa don't pound into the kids head about the white boogeyman...they say go and enjoy the freeest country in the world and no one can stop you.

[Oxbow6]

Weekly deaths in the US that were Covid related and presumed Covid related peaked the week ending on April 18 at 16887 deaths. It has declined each and every week thereafter with 230 deaths reported the week ending July 4.

[Hayduke1]

11 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

boom mike drop...also native born africans that come to american make more than native born whites in america....the difference?  the mom and dad in africa don't pound into the kids head about the white boogeyman...they say go and enjoy the freeest country in the world and no one can stop you.

Yeah.  Good try, but the reason is that they come highly educated usually with a job to get that visa.

 https://www.latimes.com/world/africa/la-fg-global-african-immigrants-explainer-20180112-story.html

So, that false narrative didnt work.  Lol

 

[Bison06]

5 minutes ago, Hayduke1 said:

Yeah.  Good try, but the reason is that they come highly educated usually with a job to get that visa.

 https://www.latimes.com/world/africa/la-fg-global-african-immigrants-explainer-20180112-story.html

So, that false narrative didnt work.  Lol

 

Actually it seems you’ve missed the point.

You have argued that it is the color of their skin that holds them back in our society, the fact that people with the same skin color coming from different circumstances succeed at a high level in our country shows its more about background(money, parents etc) than it is their skin color. Which is what I’ve been saying is the real issue.

[Hayduke1]

1 minute ago, Bison06 said:

Actually it seems you’ve missed the point.

You have argued that it is their black skin that holds them back in our society, the fact that people with black skin coming from different circumstances succeed at a high level in our country shows its more about background(money, parents etc) than it is their skin color. Which is what I’ve been saying is the real issue.

And...

It's because they come from a society WITHOUT systemic racism holding them back.  They come with an education and a job in hand.  They start out on 3rd base. 

It shouldn't be about the color of their skin.  And, yes, socioeconomic factors do hold minorities back in our country.  But, systemic racism has existed to help with that formula that has held them back. 

[wxman91]

19 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

Weekly deaths in the US that were Covid related and presumed Covid related peaked the week ending on April 18 at 16887 deaths. It has declined each and every week thereafter with 230 deaths reported the week ending July 4.

No

*Data during recent weeks are incomplete because of the lag in time between when the death occurred and when the death certificate is completed, submitted to NCHS and processed for reporting purposes.

[Bison06]

Just now, Hayduke1 said:

And...

It's because they come from a society WITHOUT systemic racism holding them back.  They come with an education and a job in hand.  They start out on 3rd base. 

It shouldn't be about the color of their skin.  And, yes, socioeconomic factors do hold minorities back in our country.  But, systemic racism has existed to help with that formula that has held them back. 

And what law is currently on the books that is inherently racist? We have massive sins in the past, no argument from me, but what currently is holding a person back specifically because of their skin color?

I have argued since the beginning that it is socioeconomic factors and parental guidance that causes failure in our country, not the color of a persons skin. Which is why people of all colors who are poor and grow up in single family homes struggle to change their destiny for the better. It isn’t a black or white problem, it’s a money and crap circumstances problem.

Now, it can be argued that, as a general rule, those sins of the past have put African Americans as a whole more likely to find themselves in poor circumstances than fine. But that doesn’t implicate our current society as systemically racist, IMO.

[wxman91]

The consensus on this board seems to be that there might have been racism in the past, but that’s been solved and any problems faced by Black Americans now is completely due to their terrible culture and Democrats giving them easy livin’ on rural America’s dime.

[homer]

15 minutes ago, Hayduke1 said:

And...

It's because they come from a society WITHOUT systemic racism holding them back.  They come with an education and a job in hand.  They start out on 3rd base. 

It shouldn't be about the color of their skin.  And, yes, socioeconomic factors do hold minorities back in our country.  But, systemic racism has existed to help with that formula that has held them back. 

 Check salary comparisons between black and white women   

 

[homer]

56 minutes ago, wxman91 said:

 

 

Those two stories don’t contradict each other in any way.  Two different studies, vastly different methods and geographic areas.  My takeaway is that even though NYC was hit very hard, only 20-25% have the antibodies and we don’t even know if that is good enough to ward off COVID-19 or its mutations.

 

You do realize what the “novel” part of the coronavirus name means, right?  New.  And with any new disease there are going to be a lot of studies, and yes, some are going to contradict each other.  That is how science works.  Eventually you get to a place of better understanding and a set of best recommendations.  Until then, the conservative path of caution should be the one taken.

 

I’ve said before in this thread, I will be sending my daughter to school later this summer because COVID-19 doesn’t appear to be a danger to children and distance learning for early elementary kids is a cluster.  But if new facts come to light I will have no hesitation in pulling her out.

The entire last few paragraphs on the story today from “experts” have to do with applying herd immunity and people who have not yet got the virus.  

What does geographic area have to do with the comparison and discussion on herd immunity from experts? 

[Bison06]

10 minutes ago, wxman91 said:

The consensus on this board seems to be that there might have been racism in the past, but that’s been solved and any problems faced by Black Americans now is completely due to their terrible culture and Democrats giving them easy livin’ on rural America’s dime.

It’s important to figure out what the root of the problem is if you’re going to find a solution. 
 

What I’m saying, is the racist policies of the past have put minorities, specifically African Americans, at a financial disadvantage.(redlining, Jim Crow, war on drugs etc) Those were racist policies, no argument from me. Those racist policies led to a lack of wealth creation as a general rule. Lack of wealth, has lead to many of the current problems that are plaguing the African American community. We are in complete agreement on how this all happened. What I am saying, is that as far as I know, there is nothing currently holding back a American born African American from succeeding financially. So instead of being fed the narrative that they will never succeed because white people are holding them back, I advocate for removing that narrative, which is pushed by the democrats and just allowing them to build their wealth.

I believe that is the core of the issue.

[Oxbow6]

12 minutes ago, wxman91 said:

No

*Data during recent weeks are incomplete because of the lag in time between when the death occurred and when the death certificate is completed, submitted to NCHS and processed for reporting purposes.

So the roughly 47% decrease in deaths from the week ending April 18 (16887) to the week ending May 16 (8901) is inaccurate too?

What lag time is going to fit your narrative?  May 16 was 7+ weeks ago.

 

[wxman91]

3 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

So the roughly 47% decrease in deaths from the week ending April 18 (16887) to the week ending May 16 (8901) is inaccurate too?

What lag time is going to fit your narrative?  May 16 was 7+ weeks ago.

 

No, there was a huge decrease in deaths.  But not anywhere near 230.  That is a misleading, inaccurate number.

[wxman91]

5 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

It’s important to figure out what the root of the problem is if you’re going to find a solution. 
 

What I’m saying, is the racist policies of the past have put minorities, specifically African Americans, at a financial disadvantage.(redlining, Jim Crow, war on drugs etc) Those were racist policies, no argument from me. Those racist policies led to a lack of wealth creation as a general rule. Lack of wealth, has lead to many of the current problems that are plaguing the African American community. We are in complete agreement on how this all happened. What I am saying, is that as far as I know, there is nothing currently holding back a American born African American from succeeding financially. So instead of being fed the narrative that they will never succeed because white people are holding them back, I advocate for removing that narrative, which is pushed by the democrats and just allowing them to build their wealth.

I believe that is the core of the issue.

I’m so confused.  You accept that the racist policies of the past have contributed to the dramatically disproportionate socioeconomic status, but then make the leap that because there are no longer any laws as barriers, Black Americans are actually on equal footing and should go out and build wealth like others.  That just seems...naive.

 

[Bison06]

7 minutes ago, wxman91 said:

I’m so confused.  You accept that the racist policies of the past have contributed to the dramatically disproportionate socioeconomic status, but then make the leap that because there are no longer any laws as barriers, Black Americans are actually on equal footing and should go out and build wealth like others.  That just seems...naive.

 

Let me try to clear it up with a question. 
 

Does a white American who grows up in poverty and with drug addicts as parents have an advantage over an African American in the exact same circumstances?

The ultra wealthy, old money in our country is mostly white people. But ALL white people get somehow lumped in with this “old money, waspy, Ivy League” persona that simply isn’t reality.

What I’m saying, is money is what buys privilege in our country. Not skin color. 

[wxman91]

23 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

Let me try to clear it up with a question. 
 

Does a white American who grows up in poverty and with drug addicts as parents have an advantage over an African American in the exact same circumstances?

The ultra wealthy, old money in our country is mostly white people. But ALL white people get somehow lumped in with this “old money, waspy, Ivy League” persona that simply isn’t reality.

What I’m saying, is money is what buys privilege in our country. Not skin color. 

I would say yes the white American in general would have an advantage due to the stats that I cited earlier in the thread about the justice system and unconscious bias.  But perhaps more importantly the odds are that the going to be skewed by where these individuals live.  Dense urban centers have a disproportionate Black population, gang problems, and poor performing schools, which are all relics of past racist policies.  

[Bison06]

3 minutes ago, wxman91 said:

I would say yes the white American in general would have an advantage due to the stats that I cited earlier in the thread about the justice system and unconscious bias.  But perhaps more importantly the odds are that the going to be skewed by where these individuals live.  Dense urban centers have a disproportionate Black population, gang problems, and poor performing schools, which are all relics of past racist policies.  

We can agree to disagree on who would be better off, but no problem.

So if these problems are relics of the past policies as you say, what can be done to correct them? Society seems to think the answer is to give advantages to the grandchildren and great grandchildren of the people who suffered these injustices.(College admissions, federal loan programs earmarked for minorities etc) But by definition, an advantage can’t be given without disadvantaging someone else.
Why not just level the playing field and let it play out?

[SIOUXFAN97]

35 minutes ago, wxman91 said:

I would say yes the white American in general would have an advantage due to the stats that I cited earlier in the thread about the justice system and unconscious bias.  But perhaps more importantly the odds are that the going to be skewed by where these individuals live.  Dense urban centers have a disproportionate Black population, gang problems, and poor performing schools, which are all relics of voting for the same party for 60 years.

fixed.

[MoSiouxFan]

7 hours ago, SiouxCrioux1 said:

This is ultimately what it comes down to for me as well. Everyone is at risk of something at all times. These kids are traveling across the US by plane, bus etc. There’s risk in literally everything you do in life. At some point we must calculate that risk for ourselves. This whole concept that Covid is any more dangerous than any of the things you or I just mentioned is absolutely ridiculous and nothing short of an agenda. 

I'm afraid that there IS an agenda:  it's to attempt to wreck the economy and make people's lives miserable until AFTER the election.

[Bison Dan]

10 hours ago, wxman91 said:

I would say yes the white American in general would have an advantage due to the stats that I cited earlier in the thread about the justice system and unconscious bias.  But perhaps more importantly the odds are that the going to be skewed by where these individuals live.  Dense urban centers have a disproportionate Black population, gang problems, and poor performing schools, which are all relics of past racist policies.  

It's people who think like you that are holding minorities back.  If anyone in this country works hard, keeps their nose clean, and accepts responsibility for their own actions, will have no problems in America.  Keep making excuses for poor behavior and promoting victimhood because it's worked so well for the 40 years. 

[wxman91]

12 hours ago, Bison06 said:

We can agree to disagree on who would be better off, but no problem.

So if these problems are relics of the past policies as you say, what can be done to correct them? Society seems to think the answer is to give advantages to the grandchildren and great grandchildren of the people who suffered these injustices.(College admissions, federal loan programs earmarked for minorities etc) But by definition, an advantage can’t be given without disadvantaging someone else.
Why not just level the playing field and let it play out?

What does "level the playing field" mean to you?  The items you describe are trying to do exactly that.  Or do you mean that we should do nothing and let it play out?

12 hours ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

fixed.

 

2 hours ago, Bison Dan said:

It's people who think like you that are holding minorities back.  If anyone in this country works hard, keeps their nose clean, and accepts responsibility for their own actions, will have no problems in America.  Keep making excuses for poor behavior and promoting victimhood because it's worked so well for the 40 years. 

I asked for R ideas earlier in this thread and...crickets.  Except, of course, blaming folks for being poor.

[Kab]

# defund congress

they aren’t doing anything anyway

lets just get rid of them

let the states do their own thing 

[Bison Dan]

2 minutes ago, Kab said:

# defund congress

they aren’t doing anything anyway

lets just get rid of them

let the states do their own thing 

Better yet take away their immunity like they want to do with our police.

[Bison06]

20 minutes ago, wxman91 said:

What does "level the playing field" mean to you?  The items you describe are trying to do exactly that.  Or do you mean that we should do nothing and let it play out?

 

I asked for R ideas earlier in this thread and...crickets.  Except, of course, blaming folks for being poor.

Level the playing field means get rid of any overt racism written into law, as was the case in the past. If anything is done beyond that to further any one race than it is by definition racist against the groups that are not included in the program to help. It makes the faulty assumption that because a person is white that they come from a situation where they don’t need any help to rise.

People in poverty need help, period, end of sentence, no qualifiers. They need resources, education, they need options.Take race out of it.