2020 FB Recruiting

[shep]

19 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

Are OSU OK and/or LSU struggling to regain a positive perception of their programs? Did the transfer qbs they now start decommit the week of signing day? Your argument is not valid as it is missing some key variables. Apples and oranges if you ask me.

For the most part, you are right, but it's not entirely wrong to use the examples as in either scenario the team is welcoming in someone that didn't want to go to their school in the first place.

Whether they decommitted or never committed to that school in the first place just doesn't seem that consequential. Does anyone really think Burrow, Murray and Hurts weren't nationally recruited?  They picked one team, and later moved to another- one that likely had some interest in them in the recruiting process.

[geaux_sioux]

14 minutes ago, shep said:

For the most part, you are right, but it's not entirely wrong to use the examples as in either scenario the team is welcoming in someone that didn't want to go to their school in the first place.

Whether they decommitted or never committed to that school in the first place just doesn't seem that consequential. Does anyone really think Burrow, Murray and Hurts weren't nationally recruited?  They picked one team, and later moved to another- one that likely had some interest in them in the recruiting process.

There is a huge difference. 

[iramurphy]

Any good college coach would take a player who is of good character and can help their program even if he decommited late, went elsewhere and would now come back, especially in an area of need. It is difficult for kids and their parents to know always which is the right program. If we can’t be flexible for a kid like that, we are going to have trouble being successful. We have quite a way to go to get where we need to be and we need to be mature enough not to take a high school kids decision personally. It doesn’t reflect negatively on the program. It may be another piece to the puzzle that motivates other recruits to come here. 

[MoSiouxFan]

37 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

Any good college coach would take a player who is of good character and can help their program even if he decommited late, went elsewhere and would now come back, especially in an area of need. It is difficult for kids and their parents to know always which is the right program. If we can’t be flexible for a kid like that, we are going to have trouble being successful. We have quite a way to go to get where we need to be and we need to be mature enough not to take a high school kids decision personally. It doesn’t reflect negatively on the program. It may be another piece to the puzzle that motivates other recruits to come here. 

You make some valid points.  In addition, he needs to be given at least a partial pass in that the person (Rudolph) who undoubtedly recruited him had been let go.

[UND08]

11 hours ago, geaux_sioux said:

Are OSU OK and/or LSU struggling to regain a positive perception of their programs? Did the transfer qbs they now start decommit the week of signing day? Your argument is not valid as it is missing some key variables. Apples and oranges if you ask me.

I don't know about you...but after watching the 2019 season it's pretty dang clear to me that we could use talent upgrades at pretty much every position!  If the kid is of good character and can play...I say let bygones be bygones and bring him back if he's at all interested!  I don't think we are in a position to snub our noses over some sour grapes due to the fact that the kid got an FBS offer 4 days before signing day and took it.  I mean...I love UND...but if I was a high school qb and got an offer from an FBS program...I'd have absolutely taken it!

[iramurphy]

11 hours ago, geaux_sioux said:

There is a huge difference. 

But still doesn’t matter. If he will help the program and doesn’t have “baggage “ we take him. 

[geaux_sioux]

2 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

But still doesn’t matter. If he will help the program and doesn’t have “baggage “ we take him. 

That’s the thing, I don’t think bending over backwards for players who snubbed us is good for the program. There are plenty of other players out there. It’s time to start valuing the program.

[UND08]

Just now, geaux_sioux said:

That’s the thing, I don’t think bending over backwards for players who snubbed us is good for the program. There are plenty of other players out there. It’s time to start valuing the program.

Ya know what I think would be good for the program?  WINNING...and generally you need talented players to win consistently and at a high level.  Again...I don't think we are in a position to turn down a good player with no baggage if he decides he wants to be here...just my two cents though!

[geaux_sioux]

16 minutes ago, UND08 said:

Ya know what I think would be good for the program?  WINNING...and generally you need talented players to win consistently and at a high level.  Again...I don't think we are in a position to turn down a good player with no baggage if he decides he wants to be here...just my two cents though!

Again, the program needs to come first. You think a guy who snubbed us and then got a second chance is gonna value the program as much as a guy who really wanted to be here and jumped at the opportunity? We'll generally get more out of the second guy and it will be better for the culture.

[UND08]

36 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

Again, the program needs to come first. You think a guy who snubbed us and then got a second chance is gonna value the program as much as a guy who really wanted to be here and jumped at the opportunity? We'll generally get more out of the second guy and it will be better for the culture.

No offense...but I don't think the ice is thick enough for Bubba and company to take that kind of attitude.  I guarantee you that if we start turning away athletes that can help our team because they stood us up for a better offer when they were 17 years old (and FBS is better)…then we'll be looking for a new coach and blowing things up in the next year or two...and if that's what you want to see happen...then why wait?!?

I guarantee you this...if we enter the MVFC with the same attitude toward recruiting and player development that we have now...we will get our @$$es handed to us on a silver platter regularly...we need to get bigger, faster, stronger across the board...and if a decent-character guy can help us do that...then I'm all for it at this point!

[iramurphy]

1 hour ago, geaux_sioux said:

That’s the thing, I don’t think bending over backwards for players who snubbed us is good for the program. There are plenty of other players out there. It’s time to start valuing the program.

Nobody is “bending over backwards “. This has absolutely nothing to do with “valuing” the program. He didn’t snub anyone.  He and his parents decided to do what’s best for him. If any program gets hung up on this kind of a thing you will be telling an empty room how we don’t let anyone snub us but we won’t be better than average. We want kids to want to be here and if it’s a year late, good for the kid and good for us. This kid or kids like him could end up being best thing for our program. No one knows until they are here. In this kids case we have no evidence he would consider transferring. 

[The Sicatoka]

Um.
Why is everyone focusing on Cedric Case?
Has he announced he's leaving Texas State?
He followed Stitt once; wouldn't he follow Stitt again? 

Until there's something more to talk about regarding Cedric Case, I'd say move along. 

 

Frankly, Chris Helbig (SUU) is more conversation-worthy because he is in the NCAA Transfer Portal. 

 

[Shawn-O]

8 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Um.
Why is everyone focusing on Cedric Case?
Has he announced he's leaving North Texas?
He followed Stitt once; wouldn't he follow Stitt again? 

Until there's something more to talk about regarding Cedric Case, I'd say move along. 

 

Frankly, Chris Helbig (SUU) is more conversation-worthy because he is in the NCAA Transfer Portal. 

 

Bodie Reeder is looking for work as of this morning, on a somewhat related note. 

https://footballscoop.com/news/north-texas-makes-a-change-at-both-coordinator-spots/

[The Sicatoka]

6 minutes ago, Shawn-O said:

Bodie Reeder is looking for work as of this morning, on a somewhat related note. 

https://footballscoop.com/news/north-texas-makes-a-change-at-both-coordinator-spots/

My original post had a mistake: Stitt and Case were at Texas State (not North Texas) in 2019. 

[Shawn-O]

1 minute ago, The Sicatoka said:

My original post had a mistake: Stitt and Case were at Texas State in 2019. 

That's okay, I just think it's interesting that Chaves knows the guy.  

[GoHawks]

I am not sure if Stitt was the real reason Case went to Texas State. Spavital is probably the reason. He's developed a few QB's that are in the NFL right now.

[iramurphy]

25 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Um.
Why is everyone focusing on Cedric Case?
Has he announced he's leaving Texas State?
He followed Stitt once; wouldn't he follow Stitt again? 

Until there's something more to talk about regarding Cedric Case, I'd say move along. 

 

Frankly, Chris Helbig (SUU) is more conversation-worthy because he is in the NCAA Transfer Portal. 

 

You are correct. My points are more to the idea that we wouldn’t take a player in this situation. Has little to do with a particular player. 

[jdub27]

34 minutes ago, GoHawks said:

I am not sure if Stitt was the real reason Case went to Texas State. Spavital is probably the reason. He's developed a few QB's that are in the NFL right now.

This is the correct answer.

[nodak651]

1 hour ago, iramurphy said:

You are correct. My points are more to the idea that we wouldn’t take a player in this situation. Has little to do with a particular player. 

Yeah,  I think the possibly provides an opportunity for the different philosophies to be discussed.  It is the off season, after all. 

I'd group Cedric Case in with any other transfer who isn't a grad transfer.  50% chance they don't transfer again and 50% chance they actually see the field (non scientific numbers, obviously).  That equates to a 25% chance that a transfer actually helps the program.  At the same time, transfers can't help with moral for depth players, or really anyone who came to UND as a freshman.  They can also often be head cases, have off field issues, problems with coaches, or just generally aren't that good.  I'd say pass unless a guy is clearly good enough to start, or the position group clearly has no depth (DT the past few seasons, kicker/punter last off season, maybe a QB this year?).

Grad transfers are a different category altogether.  These are guys that have shown they can buy in and stick with a program for 4 years, are at minimum decent students, and often time they are just looking for more playing time before they finish out their football careers.  They will also stick around and can provide leadership if they don't see the field.  Non grad transfers who don't see the field are much more likely to bolt, IMO, they already would have done it once.

That said, each potential transfer should be evaluated on a case by case basis.    

Also, if a guy like Cedric Case came in and actually improved the football team, that would help with recruiting rather than hurt it.  A better team>perceived pushover coaches.

[UND-FB-FAN]

21 hours ago, geaux_sioux said:

We need to start valuing the program. Bubba Bucks devalued the program. Letting a kid flip in recruiting and then ask him to come back? Hell no. No player is above the program. He had his chance and left us out to dry very late in the game. We can’t allow ourselves to be that desperate looking. Perception is huge in recruiting.

Bubba’s program needs a major adjustment. It has holes everywhere. Getting better players is a start. Recruiting is the lifeblood of college football. UND’s recruiting has not been good enough.

[UND-FB-FAN]

5 hours ago, geaux_sioux said:

Again, the program needs to come first. You think a guy who snubbed us and then got a second chance is gonna value the program as much as a guy who really wanted to be here and jumped at the opportunity? We'll generally get more out of the second guy and it will be better for the culture.

Again, the program needs to be adjusted. It’s not good enough as is.

[siouxfan512]

23 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

Um.
Why is everyone focusing on Cedric Case?
Has he announced he's leaving Texas State?
He followed Stitt once; wouldn't he follow Stitt again? 

Until there's something more to talk about regarding Cedric Case, I'd say move along. 

 

Frankly, Chris Helbig (SUU) is more conversation-worthy because he is in the NCAA Transfer Portal. 

 

I wouldn't say everyone is focused on Cedric, so much as there was a single "what if" comment that got blown out of proportion.

Now, if he was interested in coming to UND, I'd be interested in having him. On principal, I understand what Geaux_Sioux is saying, but I don't think our program is in a position to turn away anyone with talent that could potentially help us (with the exception of bringing in kids that have significant issues; criminal records, booted from other teams, etc). String together some winning seasons, playoff appearances, playoff wins, and maybe a championship and we can start being picky. Beggars can't be choosers, and seeing this program in the D1 era, I don't think we can be choosers.

I guarantee if the kid came in, competed, and played well, nobody would care about the commitment to try the FBS route. We have preached the need for competition and depth on here, especially at the QB position. I'll take anyone, with talent, who is interested.

That being said, unless it is actually announced that the kid wants to transfer, the whole conversation is moot.

[siouxfan512]

23 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

Um.
Why is everyone focusing on Cedric Case?
Has he announced he's leaving Texas State?
He followed Stitt once; wouldn't he follow Stitt again? 

Until there's something more to talk about regarding Cedric Case, I'd say move along. 

 

Frankly, Chris Helbig (SUU) is more conversation-worthy because he is in the NCAA Transfer Portal. 

 

I don't know anything about Helbig, but if he were to transfer, wouldn't he have to sit a year? So we would still be needing more for next season.

I'd like to see them look hard for a FBS grad transfer. I doubt we will find another Braden Hanson, but maybe you can get someone to step in who has good experience.

[The Sicatoka]

45 minutes ago, siouxfan512 said:

I don't know anything about Helbig, ...

The same report that said he's in the transfer portal said he'd be a graduate transfer (no sitting out a year) with two years of eligibility remaining. 

[siouxfan512]

2 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

The same report that said he's in the transfer portal said he'd be a graduate transfer (no sitting out a year) with two years of eligibility remaining. 

Thanks!

So what are the thought on this kid? Obviously SUU wasn't very good, but how much of that is on the QB?