Da Bears

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

18 minutes ago, UND08 said:

I was at the game...and I saw a few things from Studsrud that I did not see last year.  I saw at least a couple of occasions where he looked off his first read and hit a wide receiver in the middle.  Keaton caught a lot of flack for staring down receivers last year, but I think a lot of that is on the protection.  It takes time to make reads with the ball in your hand...and if you have no time you aren't going to be able to find your second/third option.  Keaton did a good job of using his legs to buy time...even when it resulted in an incompletion.  His one interception hit the tight end right in the hands...that's a tough break.  I did see a couple of plays where I thought he could have went to a different receiver, but when your first read requires a 10 yard throw and the second requires a 40 yard ball...all while a defensive lineman is bearing down on you...well sometimes those plays are only capable in Madden.  What was also readily apparent was that Utah defense was significantly superior to UND physically.  I may be in the minority here...but to me there's no shame in that!  Their talent level is on another planet from ours...they had 8 players drafted last year.  I'm going to reserve judgment of our offense until Sunday, when we've played a team on our level.

Now all of that is not to say that I don't have criticisms of our play calling...I said it last year and I'll say it again I'd like to see more Oliviera between the tackles and less Santiago...and more of them both on the field at the same time to keep defenses honest.  I'm going to be optimistic and assume we didn't want to put some of that on tape...hopefully it comes out and we are able to physically wear down MSU on Saturday.

I'm on your page. Our offense could be pretty good if we opened it up some more, this run up the middle on 1 & 2 down is old. We have a pretty talented team overall. Let's use everybody, that way everybody becomes better. The other team's focus then needs to spread out on verybody. Start of last year our defense was talked about being very risky by blitzing alot from nearly everywhere. Why does our offense have to be ultra conservative so that everyone knows what are first two plays are in every set of downs?

[UNDColorado]

18 minutes ago, UND08 said:

I was at the game...and I saw a few things from Studsrud that I did not see last year.  I saw at least a couple of occasions where he looked off his first read and hit a wide receiver in the middle.  Keaton caught a lot of flack for staring down receivers last year, but I think a lot of that is on the protection.  It takes time to make reads with the ball in your hand...and if you have no time you aren't going to be able to find your second/third option.  Keaton did a good job of using his legs to buy time...even when it resulted in an incompletion.  His one interception hit the tight end right in the hands...that's a tough break.  I did see a couple of plays where I thought he could have went to a different receiver, but when your first read requires a 10 yard throw and the second requires a 40 yard ball...all while a defensive lineman is bearing down on you...well sometimes those plays are only capable in Madden.  What was also readily apparent was that Utah defense was significantly superior to UND physically.  I may be in the minority here...but to me there's no shame in that!  Their talent level is on another planet from ours...they had 8 players drafted last year.  I'm going to reserve judgment of our offense until Sunday, when we've played a team on our level.

Now all of that is not to say that I don't have criticisms of our play calling...I said it last year and I'll say it again I'd like to see more Oliviera between the tackles and less Santiago...and more of them both on the field at the same time to keep defenses honest.  I'm going to be optimistic and assume we didn't want to put some of that on tape...hopefully it comes out and we are able to physically wear down MSU on Saturday.

Call me crazy but this is what I think as well. In person I thought Studs played a solid game. Utah front seven is scary good.

[jdub27]

2-Deep changes from last week:

Offense
Tobin listed as starter at LG over Aplin (previously it was Aplin or Tobin)
Coyne moves to starting FB, Finke as #2 with Norberg's injury

Defense
Wilson moves from #3 to co-#2 with Cieslak at LDE 
Rastas replaces Geier as #2 SILB
Evan Holm shunk from 6'3", 190lbs to 5'11", 180lbs

Injury report remains the same outside the addition of Norberg

[UNDBIZ]

5 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

2-Deep changes from last week:

Evan Holm shunk from 6'3", 190lbs to 5'11", 180lbs

[siouxfan512]

I want to see another coming out party in the turnover game. 2 interceptions and 2 forced fumbles. Get the D rolling!

[homer]

2 hours ago, iramurphy said:

My point is that if a great game is 46% completion and 1/1 TD/Int,  it isn't a great game.  I also agree without his athletic ability it could have been worse and if balls were caught or we had better protection his numbers would have been better, but if that is a great game,  what the hell would it take to have a bad game?  I didn't say he was bad I said it wasn't great. You  factor in drops, poor routes, poor pass protection poor running game and we still need a better game from him and others.  I didn't say he sucked, I said we need a better game and a lot of it is the confidence to change plays and ability to make his teammates better.  He is capable of all of that.  I think he is best when he is using his athletic ability and he is the guy who calls the plays in the huddle and at the line.  I trust him more than Rudolph to get the job done. Maybe some of you disagree, but I think these are an important part of his progression as a leader and we need that from our QB.  Our line is our line and our receivers are who they are.  That is what leadership is about.  He has the athletic skills and he is smart enough.  Now we need those intangibles to help make everyone around him better.  That is why I think he is the key to our success this year. Hopefully we see that this weekend. 

Not aware of many college QBs calling their own plays in the huddle.  

[AJS]

As impressive as MO State's 43 points were, they also lost by a 29 point differential. Mo State might have a slight edge in offense, but I don't think by much. UND will have a better defense, as I stated in the prediction thread, think Vegas is close w/ UND as 11.5 point favorites. I see between a 10 / 14 point win.

[iramurphy]

26 minutes ago, homer said:

Not aware of many college QBs calling their own plays in the huddle.  

Tough crowd here.    I said I would like to see him change the play in the huddle or on LOS which is different than calling play in huddle.  I stand corrected.  Keaton had a great game.

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

3 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

Tough crowd here.    I said I would like to see him change the play in the huddle or on LOS which is different than calling play in huddle.  I stand corrected.  Keaton had a great game.

It seems hard to tell how often Keaton does change the play at the line of scrimage.  Anyone know if this is a practice that only happens a very few amount of times, or is a little more often? Keaton seems to be a smart player, and yes, the team needs adjust to the switched play.  And, I know we have 1 completed game so far this year.

[77iceman]

23 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

Tough crowd here.    I said I would like to see him change the play in the huddle or on LOS which is different than calling play in huddle.  I stand corrected.  Keaton had a great game.

I get ya.  I would say the Keaton had the best game that Keaton could have on that day against that team.

[homer]

22 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

Tough crowd here.    I said I would like to see him change the play in the huddle or on LOS which is different than calling play in huddle.  I stand corrected.  Keaton had a great game.

I don't think you need to say he had a great game but holding him to a standard that few college QBs are doing isn't right either.  

Changing plays at LOS should happen, I agree.  Calling plays in the huddle or changing plays (however you choose to word it) in the huddle isn't done by many QBs in college at any level.  

Rudolph needs to channel a little Mussman and open it up a bit for Studs.  Studs also needs to take some chances on his own and throw the ball downfield. I think we agree on that.  

[Longtime fan]

21 hours ago, iramurphy said:

I don't think our concern is how bad Mizzou played defense. The Bears pose a challenge for our defense.  We need to play a great game to contain them.   My concern is that we weren't able to effectively and consistently move the ball.  We faced a very tough FBS run defense but we also didn't pass very well. I disagree with those of you that think Keaton  had a great game. ( completion rate of 46%, one 3 yd TD, with an interception).  That doesn't mean I don't think he is capable.  In fact,  I think he is capable of much more.  He is a 4th year starter, senior, team leader and a good athlete.  I am not a fan of Rudolph and I think his failure to develop our QB's to their full potential is as big of a problem as his play calling.  Having said that, Studsrud is a senior and smart kid.  If the sideline sends in a dumbass play, he needs to  change it in the huddle or call an audible at the line of scrimmage.  It isn't like they can bench him. Years ago, our QB would always veto a stupid call from the bench.  Studsrud needs to do the same.  I doubt he made excuses for his performance last week and I doubt he felt good about it.  Keaton needs to step up his performance and his leadership.  As that improves our Oline, backs and receivers also need to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem.  If our offense doesn't improve, we will struggle against most every team we play.  I would expect improvement this weekend but I felt before the season, and still feel, Keaton is the key to our success.  Rudolph seems to be a challenge but doesn't need to be a barrier.  Keaton should be running the offense.  The calls from the bench are a suggestion not a mandate.  If Keaton doesn't have the authority to change plays we have a problem.  Otherwise, audible out of running plays that have near zero chance of success like last weekend. I think if we are going to get back in the playoffs we are going to need to open things up a bit and become a bit less predictable. Go Hawks!

I agree with a lot of this....but you mentioned that he needs to up his performance and leadership.  His leadership is top notch. Performance could use a little tweaking but it's definitely more a OC not using his skills properly.  Would never consider him all American status but he has the tools to set UND up on a deep run in the playoffs if given the chance.  Their is talent on the offense ...wished it would be used to their potential. 

[UND08]

Just now, homer said:

I don't think you need to say he had a great game but holding him to a standard that few college QBs are doing isn't right either.  

Changing plays at LOS should happen, I agree.  Calling plays in the huddle or changing plays (however you choose to word it) in the huddle isn't done by many QBs in college at any level.  

Rudolph needs to channel a little Mussman and open it up a bit for Studs.  Studs also needs to take some chances on his own and throw the ball downfield. I think we agree on that.  

Most quarterbacks don't even change the play at the line themselves anymore...instead they look to the sideline and the coaching staff changes it as part of their dumbing things down no-huddle offense. 

Also...Rudolph needs to channel ZERO Mussman as far as I'm concerned...I don't really care how we win as long as we win.  Everyone keeps piling on Rudy...and I'm sure all issues are 100% his fault, since we all know Bubba couldn't possibly be part of the offensive game plan or have any input in play calling (that's sarcasm folks).  Our offense is a philosophy that comes from the head coach and is executed by the OC...and it's played a part in far more success than coach Mussman was ever capable of during his time in Grand Forks.  I may not like it all the time...but if it keeps us successful (i.e. scoring one or more points more than our opponent 8+ times per year) then I'm all for it.   

[forksandspoons]

 

[UNDBIZ]

16 minutes ago, UND08 said:

Most quarterbacks don't even change the play at the line themselves anymore...instead they look to the sideline and the coaching staff changes it as part of their dumbing things down no-huddle offense. 

Also...Rudolph needs to channel ZERO Mussman as far as I'm concerned...I don't really care how we win as long as we win.  Everyone keeps piling on Rudy...and I'm sure all issues are 100% his fault, since we all know Bubba couldn't possibly be part of the offensive game plan or have any input in play calling (that's sarcasm folks).  Our offense is a philosophy that comes from the head coach and is executed by the OC...and it's played a part in far more success than coach Mussman was ever capable of during his time in Grand Forks.  I may not like it all the time...but if it keeps us successful (i.e. scoring one or more points more than our opponent 8+ times per year) then I'm all for it.   

Head Coach Mussman = Terrible

Offensive Coordinator Mussman = Not bad

[Longtime fan]

16 minutes ago, UND08 said:

Most quarterbacks don't even change the play at the line themselves anymore...instead they look to the sideline and the coaching staff changes it as part of their dumbing things down no-huddle offense. 

Also...Rudolph needs to channel ZERO Mussman as far as I'm concerned...I don't really care how we win as long as we win.  Everyone keeps piling on Rudy...and I'm sure all issues are 100% his fault, since we all know Bubba couldn't possibly be part of the offensive game plan or have any input in play calling (that's sarcasm folks).  Our offense is a philosophy that comes from the head coach and is executed by the OC...and it's played a part in far more success than coach Mussman was ever capable of during his time in Grand Forks.  I may not like it all the time...but if it keeps us successful (i.e. scoring one or more points more than our opponent 8+ times per year) then I'm all for it.   

.....or lack of. 

[UND-1]

1 hour ago, iramurphy said:

Tough crowd here.    I said I would like to see him change the play in the huddle or on LOS which is different than calling play in huddle.  I stand corrected.  Keaton had a great game.

He changes the play at the line of scrimmage probably 80% (guessing...alot though) of the time.  He does it all on his own with a set # of options in his head for each initial call from Rudolph.

[UND08]

Just now, UNDBIZ said:

Head Coach Mussman = Terrible

Offensive Coordinator Mussman = Not bad

I seem to remember us at the peak of Mussman's time as OC winning a lot of games by relying on our stout defense and running game.  By the same token I remember Rudy having an offense at St. Cloud that was one of the most efficient and productive in the country.  What I'm getting at with that is it's all about philosophy from the top down.  I think as long as Coach Schweigert is around we will hang our hat on our defense and physicality.  That's not a sexy way to play the game...but it's got a good track record in Grand Forks.  I remember Braden Hansen throwing for 600+ yards against Montana...that was fun...but if I remember right we barely won the game and didn't have that great of a year.  Whatever style of play leads to wins is the style that I'll get behind!

[UNDMOORHEAD]

3 minutes ago, UND08 said:

I seem to remember us at the peak of Mussman's time as OC winning a lot of games by relying on our stout defense and running game.  By the same token I remember Rudy having an offense at St. Cloud that was one of the most efficient and productive in the country.  What I'm getting at with that is it's all about philosophy from the top down.  I think as long as Coach Schweigert is around we will hang our hat on our defense and physicality.  That's not a sexy way to play the game...but it's got a good track record in Grand Forks.  I remember Braden Hansen throwing for 600+ yards against Montana...that was fun...but if I remember right we barely won the game and didn't have that great of a year.  Whatever style of play leads wins is the style that I'll get behind!

I too will take a win however they come, but at the same time a slightly higher scoring offense would make things easier on the defense. More sustained drives will give them extra rest and playing with a lead will force teams to become one dimensional against us as the game goes on. I would love to be up by 14 or 17 in the fourth quarter so the defense can just attack the opposing QB.

[UND08]

Just now, UNDMOORHEAD said:

I too will take a win however they come, but at the same time a slightly higher scoring offense would make things easier on the defense. More sustained drives will give them extra rest and playing with a lead will force teams to become one dimensional against us as the game goes on. I would love to be up by 14 or 17 in the fourth quarter so the defense can just attack the opposing QB.

I agree with you...and I hope that we see that starting this weekend.  I will however not criticize the fact that we didn't see that last week...as against a team as talented as Utah was that would be considered unrealistic in my book...

[gundy1124]

5 hours ago, iramurphy said:

My point is that if a great game is 46% completion and 1/1 TD/Int,  it isn't a great game.  I also agree without his athletic ability it could have been worse and if balls were caught or we had better protection his numbers would have been better, but if that is a great game,  what the hell would it take to have a bad game?  I didn't say he was bad I said it wasn't great. You  factor in drops, poor routes, poor pass protection poor running game and we still need a better game from him and others.  I didn't say he sucked, I said we need a better game and a lot of it is the confidence to change plays and ability to make his teammates better.  He is capable of all of that.  I think he is best when he is using his athletic ability and he is the guy who calls the plays in the huddle and at the line.  I trust him more than Rudolph to get the job done. Maybe some of you disagree, but I think these are an important part of his progression as a leader and we need that from our QB.  Our line is our line and our receivers are who they are.  That is what leadership is about.  He has the athletic skills and he is smart enough.  Now we need those intangibles to help make everyone around him better.  That is why I think he is the key to our success this year. Hopefully we see that this weekend. 

All things considered against that defense and crowd I thought Keaton performed well.  If that's the stat line this week......oh boy, that'd be terrible.

I know in the 00's, under Muss, the QB had a run play and pass play option almost every single down.

[UND08]

Just now, gundy1124 said:

All things considered against that defense and crowd I thought Keaton performed well.  If that's the stat line this week......oh boy, that'd be terrible.

I know in the 90's, under Muss, the QB had a run play and pass play option almost every single down.

You mean the 2000s...or were you talking about his time at MSU-Mankato? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Mussman

[UNDMOORHEAD]

17 minutes ago, UND08 said:

I agree with you...and I hope that we see that starting this weekend.  I will however not criticize the fact that we didn't see that last week...as against a team as talented as Utah was that would be considered unrealistic in my book...

I didn't expect that to happen against Utah either. When it became obvious that the run game wasn't going to work they didn't seem to alter the game plan. That was the frustrating part of the game for me. Sometimes you have to pass to be able to open up the run, that's really what I want them to have the ability to do when need be.

[Irish]

14 minutes ago, UNDMOORHEAD said:

I didn't expect that to happen against Utah either. When it became obvious that the run game wasn't going to work they didn't seem to alter the game plan. That was the frustrating part of the game for me. Sometimes you have to pass to be able to open up the run, that's really what I want them to have the ability to do when need be.

Have you ever seen an O coordinator with less feel for the game than Rudolph?

[UNDMOORHEAD]

6 minutes ago, Irish said:

Have you ever seen an O coordinator with less feel for the game than Rudolph?

Well, their has got to be some worse then him. 

Had you never watched one of our games or had any awareness of our personnel, you would have to assume based on play calling, we have nothing to offer in the pass game. I'm a little worried it might hurt Bubba's ability to recruit a Kenny G type receiver.