UND to cut women's hockey

[Theusualsuspects]

Well aren't you the sweetest. 

[Theusualsuspects]

Obviously was being sarcastic. I thought that's how you communicated on this forum. 

[UND-1]

13 minutes ago, Theusualsuspects said:

If this is all about money then cut football. They have a larger budget and larger defecit  than women's hockey......

You want to devastate Women's athletics?  Cut football.  

[MafiaMan]

2 hours ago, Kermit's Luck said:

It's an idiom, not piling on or name calling. And your second sentence is what's known as a "straw man argument".

As "straw man" as suggesting that young girls/women would have absolutely no place else to go without a UND women's hockey program?  

[Theusualsuspects]

I actually care about ALL the sports at UND.  it really is sad that any sports had to be cut. I just find it interesting that people would come on a forum blasting a program/coach/former players of a program from supposedly their favorite university.  I guess it says more about those individuals character than of the woman who are fighting to compete and be educated at a university THEY love. 

[UNDBIZ]

12 minutes ago, Theusualsuspects said:

If this is all about money then cut football. They have a larger budget and larger defecit  than women's hockey......

100 students versus 25.  10,000 fans at games versus 200.  Champions club donations not recognized.  Apparel sales not recognized.  Not offshoring certain costs on MIH budget.  Growing attendance and revenue.  Only team sport other than MIH likely to produce a national championship.  High local youth participation rates.  Title IX.

[UNDBIZ]

1 minute ago, Theusualsuspects said:

I guess it says more about those individuals character than of the woman who are fighting to compete and be educated at a university THEY love. 

Not anymore I guess.

[Theusualsuspects]

2 minutes ago, MafiaMan said:

As "straw man" as suggesting that young girls/women would have absolutely no place else to go without a UND women's hockey program?  

When you're one of 35 division 1 teams in the country, it definitely decreases their odds. Some women have been walk-ons from Grand Forks and North Dakota who would have never had that opportunity to play at that level. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

27 minutes ago, Theusualsuspects said:

If this is all about money then cut football. They have a larger budget and larger defecit  than women's hockey......

Larger alumni base? 

Greater attendance? 

More popular nationally? 

You're right - it's not just about the reported finances. Let start by considering the numbers that are not conveniently located at the bottom of a spreadsheet, such as alumni donations via football's large alumni base. 

[Siouxperfan7]

2 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

Not anymore I guess.

Yes the way the players found out that the program was being cut would have been handled a lot better.  They could have notified them right away in the morning, made a statement, and then say there would be a press conference later in the day.  That being said, it doesn't change the fact that the program will still be cut.  Sure it was a crappy way to find out.  But that's life sometimes.  It's not always fair.  Everything in your life doesn't always go according to plan and happen they way they should.  Welcome to the real world.  

[Theusualsuspects]

5 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

100 students versus 25.  10,000 fans at games versus 200.  Champions club donations not recognized.  Apparel sales not recognized.  Not offshoring certain costs on MIH budget.  Growing attendance and revenue.  Only team sport other than MIH likely to produce a national championship.  High local youth participation rates.  Title IX.

Ha. Again, sarcasm. Just all the talk about money.  And WIH was the only other sport to likely produce a national championship. At the highest championship level. 

Someone told me all the football fans were on this forum. Don't poke the bear...

peace. 

[UNDBIZ]

6 minutes ago, Theusualsuspects said:

Ha. Again, sarcasm. Just all the talk about money.  And WIH was the only other sport to likely produce a national championship. At the highest championship level. 

Someone told me all the football fans of UND sports that have fans were on this forum. Don't poke the bear...

peace. 

FYP

[MafiaMan]

12 minutes ago, Theusualsuspects said:

When you're one of 35 division 1 teams in the country, it definitely decreases their odds. Some women have been walk-ons from Grand Forks and North Dakota who would have never had that opportunity to play at that level. 

 

6 minutes ago, Theusualsuspects said:

Ha. Again, sarcasm. Just all the talk about money.  And WIH was the only other sport to likely produce a national championship. At the highest championship level. 

How was UND going to "produce a national championship...at the highest championship level" with "walk-ons who would have never had that opportunity to play at that level?"  Or were North Dakota's walk-ons going to wind up as "Miracle Part II" and defeat Minnesota's All-Americans in an NCAA title game down the road?

I'm disappointed the program was cut, too, but what's the solution?  Reinstate it effective immediately and figure out the budget later?  Good plan.  

[gundy1124]

4 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Larger alumni base? 

Greater attendance? 

More popular nationally? 

You're right - it's not just about the reported finances. Let start by considering the numbers that are not conveniently put at the bottom of a spreadsheet, such as alumni donations. 

Great, now I have to look up the word "sarcasm", us futball giys dont speek nun wel.

Not to mention playing a road game for $400,000 and the HPC would not have been built, or needed I guess.

[SWSiouxMN]

33 minutes ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

Yes the way the players found out that the program was being cut would have been handled a lot better.  They could have notified them right away in the morning, made a statement, and then say there would be a press conference later in the day.  That being said, it doesn't change the fact that the program will still be cut.  Sure it was a crappy way to find out.  But that's life sometimes.  It's not always fair.  Everything in your life doesn't always go according to plan and happen they way they should.  Welcome to the real world.  

Allow me to play devils advocate on this:  Does it really look any better to pull 26 hockey players out of class to attend a meeting saying their sport is cut?  The outcry would stay the same: How dare the university pull these girls out of class to tell them that, they should have known better!"

I don't think there was anyway it could have gone right for them. 

[UNDColorado]

16 minutes ago, Theusualsuspects said:

Ha. Again, sarcasm. Just all the talk about money.  And WIH was the only other sport to likely produce a national championship. At the highest championship level. 

Someone told me all the football fans were on this forum. Don't poke the bear...

peace. 

Were you one of the 209 in attendance a few weekends ago?

[SWSiouxMN]

1 hour ago, UND-1 said:

Minnesota has three Canadian's on their team.  The rest are from MN (majority), IL, & ND.  That is how you keep scholarship costs down.

By my math, the UND WH scholarships averaged out to $25,096 each.

By comparison:

MH = $24,981

FB = $20,695

MBB = $23,282

WBB = $19,912

Not millions but they could reduce their scholarship costs by recruiting Minnesota alot harder.  

 

I'll add to this by saying perhaps the games would have been better attended if there was a more local flavor.  Not saying it would have made too much of a difference on the revenue side of things but if you were a casual hockey fan who would you rather see:  someone from Europe or someone from EGF or Crookston or Warroad?

Of course the bigger draw would be if they were able to win a bit more consistently than they did.  With some of the talent they did have, they should have done a hell of a lot more with it. 

[NoDak Fan]

Has it been reported about the women's annual deficit before? And since day 1, has it always been a substantial loss?

Why has it taken 15 years for the public/administration/media/fans/community/program to finally face the hard truth?

Like everything, it comes to the 11th hour to save something from the chopping block.

 

 

[Teeder11]

1 minute ago, NoDak Fan said:

Has it been reported about the women's annual deficit before? And since day 1, has it always been a substantial loss?

Why has it taken 15 years for the public/administration/media/fans/community/program to finally face the hard truth?

Like everything, it comes to the 11th hour to save something from the chopping block.

 

 

Kennedy came along and finally had the cajones to do something about it instead of kick the can down the suck hole some more. 

[jdub27]

23 hours ago, SWSiouxMN said:

I know in the Pres thread there was a breakdown of athletes per sport, was that the latest up to date numbers or is there a new one?

This isn't exactly what you asked for but here's the breakdown of Net Cost/Athlete using 2016 numbers:
BB – $19,868
MBB – $66,703
WBB – $68,491
FB – $22,432
MG – $20,934
WG – $14,462
MIH – $6,051
WIH – $76,799
Soccer – $19,484
SB – $23,098
MS&D – $12,126
WS&D – $16,833
MT – $14,392
WT – $17,656
MTF – $11,723
WTF – $16,182
VB – $59,501

Still a lot of noise in the numbers but WIH, MBB, WBB and VB all took a hit with the allocation of the REA expenses. MBB and WBB are required everywhere, so those are what they are. I wouldn't be surprised if UND started charging for VB at this point in time, won't be a huge revenue generator but I with the growth in the program, I think people will pay to go watch. I would guess MBB and WBB ticket prices will be going up slightly along with FB and MIH this year too.

[geaux_sioux]

4 hours ago, Theusualsuspects said:

Jocelyne and Monique have dedicated their lives to the sport of hockey. They have fully used up their 10,000 hours to perfect their craft. Was rewarded for their hard work with a full scholarship to the University of Minnesota as the UND team was not in a place that it should have been. When Idalski took over they left a promising future (and national championships) to return to the team that they love and help build it to a nationally ranked team. In doing so, drawing high caliber players from all around the world to play at North Dakota. After their graduation, the continued to be involved on and off the ice. One being a volunteer coach and the other the strength and conditioning coach. And now that they have reached the highest level of their field, they should sit quietly by as the team they love and have sacrificed so much is being removed from the landscape of women's hockey? You are right. They do have a personal interest in the program. And are willing to fight for it. Good for them. 

Unfortunatly they chose the whine and complain route instead of the roll up their sleeves route that worked for them in hockey.

[tnt]

1 hour ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

Yes the way the players found out that the program was being cut would have been handled a lot better.  They could have notified them right away in the morning, made a statement, and then say there would be a press conference later in the day.  That being said, it doesn't change the fact that the program will still be cut.  Sure it was a crappy way to find out.  But that's life sometimes.  It's not always fair.  Everything in your life doesn't always go according to plan and happen they way they should.  Welcome to the real world.  

I still go back to the question of how some people on here were certain this was going to happen, but Idalski had no clue?. Yes, they were a top ten program every year, but people were becoming more and more disinterested. When you're not scoring many goals, and there is no physical play, it just isn't exciting to watch. 

[UND1983]

Top 10.  Out of 35.

[fightingsioux4life]

3 hours ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

Yes the way the players found out that the program was being cut would have been handled a lot better.  They could have notified them right away in the morning, made a statement, and then say there would be a press conference later in the day.  That being said, it doesn't change the fact that the program will still be cut.  Sure it was a crappy way to find out.  But that's life sometimes.  It's not always fair.  Everything in your life doesn't always go according to plan and happen they way they should.  Welcome to the real world.  

I think the Lamoreaux twins know all about "the real world", they have achieved more than a lot of other athletes. So please lay off the preachy rhetoric.

[fightingsioux4life]

As for cutting football, that is something that would have had to happen around the time we moved up to Division I (after Dale Lennon left to go to Southern Illinois). That is what Omaha did. Unfortunately, we have invested big $$$$$ into a practice facility big enough for football. Also, the program is on the upswing thanks to Bubba and his staff. This is an option that is no longer open to us.