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If Big Ten Offers UND Should They Join?


Cratter

If Big Ten Offers UND Should They Join?  

256 members have voted

  1. 1. If Big Ten hockey decides to expand and potentially offer UND, would you like UND to abandon the NCHC and join the Big Ten?

    • No
      192
    • Yes
      64


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No way UNO gets an affiliate membership in the BTHC.  Big Bother UN-L will put a stop to that.  Having UNO in any way affiliated with the Big Ten dilutes the conference brand and puts UNO on the same footing as UN-L.  UNO in the BTHC would also pose a barrier if UN-L were ever to decide it wants to field a D1 hockey team (which I have been told by people down there that it is going to happen soon).  UN-L would not be happy sharing the same conference affiliation as little bro UNO. Besides UNO is still a majority commuting school, is not a major research university, or even very well endowed.  No way they pass the test for affiliation with the BIG.

Everything I just pointed out for UNO can also apply to UMD.  No way Goldy is going to share anything Big Ten with an in-state little brother school.

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1 hour ago, Benny Baker said:

 

 

 

 

I have to completely agree with Cratter and UNDBIZ.  Hindsight is 20/20, but why didn't the WCHA just add Miami and WMU to replace Minnesota and Wisconsin.  The addition of Bemidji and Mankato to the NCHC would effectively put UND back into the WCHA except without the conference's prestigious 50+ year history, the McNaughton Cup, etc.  I cringed when St. Cloud was added, not because they cannot compete in college hockey, but because it confirmed that the idea behind the "NATIONAL" had already been curbed back from its original intention. 

And since when has Bemidji had recent success?  (Please don't reply with the "but 10 years ago when Bemidji was in College Hockey America" type of arguments.  I don't care that they beat up on Wayne State and Findley University to get into the NCAAs).  Bemidji's 17-16-6 record this season is the first time they finished over .500 since moving to the WCHA six years ago.  Maybe they'll continue their success and be two games above .500 next season!

Why don't you cringe when WMU was added to the conference? Sure they may be D1 across the board but they have no history in hockey, at least Bemidji State can say they have reached past the 2nd round of the tournament and made it to the Frozen Four. 

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As much as I loved the old WCHA, its clear with hindsight that creating the NCHC - with like-minded schools - was a large step forward.  It seems clear that adding too many teams from the current WCHA would be a step backward.

Look at the differences between the NCHC and WCHA that have emerged in recent years, and you get a clearer sense of why the league needed to break up:

* NCHC adopted a 24 game schedule.  WCHA stayed with a 28 game schedule (same as the old WCHA).   The NCHC has more nonconference games, and by winning a majority of those, build an RPI advantage for the whole league that puts prestige and more teams in the NCAA.  In turn that leads to more money.   There were clearly arguments in the old WCHA about this, and it was a major cause of the fracture.

* An NHL mentality pervades the NCHC.   WCHA hugs the past.    NCHC is adapting and changing - 3x3 overtime, shootouts - in ways that make the league more attractive to better recruits.   "We're preparing you for the next level" is more than just marketing hype.  This is another area where I am sure the arguments raged in the old WCHA, and the events since make it clear who wanted to modernize.

* Refereeing.   I watched several WCHA games this year, and was astounded at how much old style interference and stickwork were tolerated.   Not that the NCHC goes as far as I would like toward NHL standards, but the WCHA is once again stuck in the past.

While I miss a few of the old rivalries, its clear that UND Athletics chose (created) a path that would offer greater success than staying affiliated with small minded schools that were stuck in the past.   

/End Rant

===========================

As it relates to Arizona State, if they joined the NCHC I'd be thrilled.  But the odds now heavily favor a move to the Big Integer.

An ongoing source of discontent is having Bowling Green, Western Michigan and Miami in different leagues.  They are conference pals in the MAC.   If BGSU is committed to hockey (perhaps still a question) then they would be a good add to the NCHC.  

Otherwise, until NCHC adds BGSU, WMU and Miami are flight risks.   It's this flight risk that forced/motivated the NCHC to add St Cloud, preserving the NCHC autobid if Miami and WMU left.

Sorry for rambling. 

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School - Enrollment - Endowment - Primary Athletic Division

UND - 15k - $230M - DI

WMU - 24k - $320M - DI

UMD - 10k - $130M - DII

DU - 12k - $467M - DI

CC - 2k - $680M - DIII

UNO - 15k - ? - DI

Miami - 24k - $460M - DI

SCSU - 15k - $23M - DII

Mankato - 18k - $50M - DII

Bemidji State - 6k - $11M - DII

Which schools should UND associate itself with?  For comparison purposes, Dickinson State has an endowment of $9M.

 

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For those of you still in need of convincing, let me repost one phrase from the USCHO story:

North Dakota would be a coup for the Big Ten ...  

Yes, that says that North Dakota would be a "a notable or successful stroke or move" should the Big Ten get the Fighting Sio Hawks. 

Never thought I'd see USCHO say some thing that nice about North Dakota. 

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54 minutes ago, siouxkid12 said:

Why don't you cringe when WMU was added to the conference? Sure they may be D1 across the board but they have no history in hockey, at least Bemidji State can say they have reached past the 2nd round of the tournament and made it to the Frozen Four. 

Can you find my post where I said I was excited about WMU joining the NCHC, that WMU was a good fit because they're DI across the board, or that they have a long history in hockey?  Nope, neither can I.

Yup, that Bemidji team from 8 years really tore through its CHA competition to reach the NCAA tournament with an astounding 18-15-1 record!  So much recent success, though, right?  Right?  right . . . ?

 

 

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16 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Folks, if the Big Ten calls, you answer. The jump by Notre Dame affirms that. 

Notre. Dame. Jumped. 

Notre Dame left Hockey East for Big Ten Hockey. Get it? 

Now, if the Big Ten goes to eight, who? 

Omaha? UN-Lincoln won't go for that, even as their surrogate. Denver? Miami? 

Folks, USCHO broke the "Notre Dame to Big Ten" story. I guess that tells me they have insights worth listening to, such as ... 

 

 


Read more: http://www.uscho.com/from-the-press-box/2016/03/23/with-notre-dames-move-to-the-big-ten-the-conference-arms-race-is-back-on/#ixzz43ku77I3n

I'm going to say the eastern* Big Ten got their team. Notre Dame fills barns in Ann Arbor, East Lansing, Happy Valley, and Columbus. 

What in the west is the best hope to fill Minnesota's and Wisconsin's not at capacity arenas? There's one answer and USCHO says it above. 

Arizona State can have UND's slot in the NCHC (and I'm pretty sure DU and CC wouldn't be all that upset). 

If the Big Ten calls, you answer.

*Mich, Mich St, Ohio St, Penn St

Anyone who thinks the B1G is going to call UND is kidding themselves.  It's ASU, people.  This isn't rocket science.  There is a huge, nationally known university with a hockey program that needs a conference home.  If I had to guess, the ASU decision actually preceded the Notre Dame discussions.  That is, the B1G reached a decision to offer ASU a spot, with ASU basically verbally agreeing, subject to final agreements in place, and then discussions opened with Notre Dame, who was only too happy to get out of HE.

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Just now, SJHovey said:

Anyone who thinks the B1G is going to call UND is kidding themselves.  

I agree with you, but to see USCHO make a reasonable (I stopped short of compelling) argument for UND to the Big Ten is noteworthy. 

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I still don't think its a great chance UND gets a call to become an affiliate but the faucet now has a subtle drip.  Whether or not people like it, if the B1G offers we will take it.  We'd be stupid not to.  Plus UND offers more than Arizona State in the current situation:

Fan Base UND >>> ASU

Tradition UND >>>>> ASU

Talent UND >>>>> ASU

Proximity UND >>>> ASU

Established Rivalries UND >>>>> ASU

Facilities UND >>>> ASU

Weather UND <<<<<<<<<< ASU

I put the chances of a UND B1G offer at about 20%.

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40 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Folks, if the Big Ten calls, you answer. The jump by Notre Dame affirms that. 

Notre. Dame. Jumped. 

Notre Dame left Hockey East for Big Ten Hockey. Get it? 

Now, if the Big Ten goes to eight, who? 

Omaha? UN-Lincoln won't go for that, even as their surrogate. Denver? Miami? 

Folks, USCHO broke the "Notre Dame to Big Ten" story. I guess that tells me they have insights worth listening to, such as ... 

 

 


Read more: http://www.uscho.com/from-the-press-box/2016/03/23/with-notre-dames-move-to-the-big-ten-the-conference-arms-race-is-back-on/#ixzz43ku77I3n

I'm going to say the eastern* Big Ten got their team. Notre Dame fills barns in Ann Arbor, East Lansing, Happy Valley, and Columbus. 

What in the west is the best hope to fill Minnesota's and Wisconsin's not at capacity arenas? There's one answer and USCHO says it above. 

Arizona State can have UND's slot in the NCHC (and I'm pretty sure DU and CC wouldn't be all that upset). 

If the Big Ten calls, you answer.

*Mich, Mich St, Ohio St, Penn St

That sounds like they need us.  I thought they said we need them?  :glare:

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45 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Arizona State can have UND's slot in the NCHC (and I'm pretty sure DU and CC wouldn't be all that upset). 

If the Big Ten calls, you answer.

Hey, I'm just looking out for CC. Let ASU have the NCHC 8-hole for a while. 

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25 minutes ago, SJHovey said:

Anyone who thinks the B1G is going to call UND is kidding themselves.  It's ASU, people.  This isn't rocket science.  There is a huge, nationally known university with a hockey program that needs a conference home.  If I had to guess, the ASU decision actually preceded the Notre Dame discussions.  That is, the B1G reached a decision to offer ASU a spot, with ASU basically verbally agreeing, subject to final agreements in place, and then discussions opened with Notre Dame, who was only too happy to get out of HE.

I agree.  It would be great to go to the B1G, but I have to believe UND is pretty far down the list for who gets the 8th spot...

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12 minutes ago, NewUNDAlum said:

I still don't think its a great chance UND gets a call to become an affiliate but the faucet now has a subtle drip.  Whether or not people like it, if the B1G offers we will take it.  We'd be stupid not to.  Plus UND offers more than Arizona State in the current situation:

Fan Base UND >>> ASU

Tradition UND >>>>> ASU

Talent UND >>>>> ASU

Proximity UND >>>> ASU

Established Rivalries UND >>>>> ASU

Facilities UND >>>> ASU

Weather UND <<<<<<<<<< ASU

I put the chances of a UND B1G offer at about 20%.

You missed one or two:

Restoration of lost fan interest

Annual anticipation for ____ to come to town

Some won't admit it, but the energy in the UMn and UWi programs right now just isn't what it was. 

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2 hours ago, siouxkid12 said:

Why don't you cringe when WMU was added to the conference? Sure they may be D1 across the board but they have no history in hockey, at least Bemidji State can say they have reached past the 2nd round of the tournament and made it to the Frozen Four. 

Financial commitment.

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48 minutes ago, siouxkid12 said:

The financial commitment is there for BSU as with Mankato, so you can throw that theory out the window.

Hockey fans don't make conference choices, Presidents do on reasons like academics, endowment, research, media reach, professional schools etc.  Mankato will only get a call if Miami and W Mich leave and the NCHC needs someone to pair with UNLV.

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53 minutes ago, siouxkid12 said:

The financial commitment is there for BSU as with Mankato, so you can throw that theory out the window.

This was part of the reason that UND and DU looked to form the NCHC because they had lost the voting block in the WCHA with Wisconsin and Minnesota leaving. There are other financial factors in a league besides scholarship commitment such as advertising, marketing, league staff salaries, etc......so you can close the window.

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