MafiaMan Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Parity would make sure the Bison win a championship before UND does again. I don't think "parity" is the word I would use to describe such a situation. I think "apocalypse" or the phrase "end of days" would be more appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnboyND7 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I don't think "parity" is the word I would use to describe such a situation. I think "apocalypse" or the phrase "end of days" would be more appropriate. Wailing and gnashing of teeth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.357 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Oh please. Boston College was an afterthought in college hockey for about 50 years. Now, plenty of folks think they're the gold standard. In, what, 14 seasons? Amazing. Oh please, Boston College is in a hockey hotbed like St. Cloud. NDSU is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redneksioux Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Oh please, Boston College is in a hockey hotbed like St. Cloud. NDSU is not. If ndsu had interest and would invest in a d1 hockey program they are in the same "hotbed" as und. Many young guys grow up dreaming of playing for a certain team. und probably has more of those guys playing now than they have in a while. Hopefully they can make it happen in April. But any team can click and go on a roll. What about bemidji? How many of their players grew up dreaming of playing for bemidji state? Recently that team has learned how to control und's game. It's a big deal for them. If ndsu had d1 hockey, you don't think a game vs und would be their Super Bowl? At least every one of those games would be in grand forks;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.357 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 If ndsu had interest and would invest in a d1 hockey program they are in the same "hotbed" as und. What I was referring to earlier was the stature of the UND hockey program, which has been around since 1929 & which NDSU hockey could of course never rival. Just like we could never be as legendary as USC or Alabama if we ever went to that level in D1 football. And to address your point above, NDSU would be a start-up hockey program; UND has had hockey since Herbert Hoover was in office. We don't need to be smack dab in the middle of MN due to our stature & tradition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redneksioux Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 What I was referring to earlier was the stature of the UND hockey program, which has been around since 1929 & which NDSU hockey could of course never rival. Just like we could never be as legendary as USC or Alabama if we ever went to that level in D1 football.And to address your point above, NDSU would be a start-up hockey program; UND has had hockey since Herbert Hoover was in office. We don't need to be smack dab in the middle of MN due to our stature & tradition. The USC/Alabama reference is irrelevant. If und went fbs they could never compete with top fbs recruiting. College hockey is different. Stature means nothing when you are head to head playing a game that either team can win. What has und's stature and tradition done for them with recent national championships? It's given them a chance and that's about it. Sure IF ndsu ever does decide to start a d1 hockey team they will never match und's tradition. Neither will asu or penn state. But who will be the first to win the next natty? It's anyone's game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InHeavenThereIsNoBeer Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 The USC/Alabama reference is irrelevant. If und went fbs they could never compete with top fbs recruiting. College hockey is different. Stature means nothing when you are head to head playing a game that either team can win. What has und's stature and tradition done for them with recent national championships? It's given them a chance and that's about it. Sure IF ndsu ever does decide to start a d1 hockey team they will never match und's tradition. Neither will asu or penn state. But who will be the first to win the next natty? It's anyone's game. Could tell you who I'd bet on to win more nattys over the next 20-40 years. I'll even let you have Penn state AND ASU. Yes stature and tradition has given UND chances, and the more chances the better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geaux_sioux Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Go easy on them MafiaMan, they don't know you're an NDSU booster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.357 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 The USC/Alabama reference is irrelevant. If und went fbs they could never compete with top fbs recruiting. College hockey is different. Stature means nothing when you are head to head playing a game that either team can win. What has und's stature and tradition done for them with recent national championships? It's given them a chance and that's about it. Sure IF ndsu ever does decide to start a d1 hockey team they will never match und's tradition. Neither will asu or penn state. But who will be the first to win the next natty? It's anyone's game. The USC/Alabama reference wasn't insinuating if UND could beat them should UND go fbs, but who would have a more high-level winning tradition & stature should UND ever get to that level. Naturally, Bama & USC would because they've been more prominent for much longer. Just like NDSU would never be as prominent & big in stature as UND in hockey simply due to time. And that prominence & stature goes a long way in bringing in blue-chip recruits. So it is very relevant. Sure, NDSU may field a good team once in awhile, but like the Heavenly Beer guy said, who's going to be a more consistent winner over the long haul? Not only would NDSU be in UND's constant shadow, they would have to go into recruiting wars with 5 other MN D1 hockey programs. They would be a perennial bottom-feeder for the most part. And I think we're discussing a moot point because NDSU has no intention of going D1 in hockey anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redneksioux Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Could tell you who I'd bet on to win more nattys over the next 20-40 years. I'll even let you have Penn state AND ASU. Yes stature and tradition has given UND chances, and the more chances the better! I'd agree with you on this one. Just pointing out the parity in the college game. As time goes on I predict the parity will increase. Ten years ago who woulda thought und would lose a couple games to bemidji state? It's foolish to say that if any school started a d1 team, und would dominate them for 30 years due to stature and tradition. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redneksioux Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 The USC/Alabama reference wasn't insinuating if UND could beat them should UND go fbs, but who would have a more high-level winning tradition & stature should UND ever get to that level. Naturally, Bama & USC would because they've been more prominent for much longer. Just like NDSU would never be as prominent & big in stature as UND in hockey simply due to time. And that prominence & stature goes a long way in bringing in blue-chip recruits. So it is very relevant.Sure, NDSU may field a good team once in awhile, but like the Heavenly Beer guy said, who's going to be a more consistent winner over the long haul? Not only would NDSU be in UND's constant shadow, they would have to go into recruiting wars with 5 other MN D1 hockey programs. They would be a perennial bottom-feeder for the most part.And I think we're discussing a moot point because NDSU has no intention of going D1 in hockey anyway. I'll agree with your moot point. At the same time I wouldn't be shocked if ndsu adds d1 hockey in the next ten years. If college hockey continues to grow and und football does close the gap with ndsu football, the ndsu ad will make a move of some sort. Regardless of who the new startup teams are, with the right investments and focus into the programs, stature can be overcome. There's a ton of international talent and college hockey's biggest recruiting competition is with juniors in Canada. Tradition and stature are great and all for our athletes, but our hockey team does employ some professionals in the coaching staff. In their professions they are and should be judged on what they are currently doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 NDSU already has a nice rink waiting for them that's nicer than 75% of college hockey programs already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.357 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 ... Regardless of who the new startup teams are, with the right investments and focus into the programs, stature can be overcome. There's a ton of international talent and college hockey's biggest recruiting competition is with juniors in Canada ... _ Any D1 can beat another D1 team on a given night. That's obvious. But over the long haul, tradition, stature & facilities would bring in way more talent for UND than NDSU on a consistent basis. That shouldn't even be debatable. You said "with the right investments...", does NDSU have an Englestad-type benefactor who can build another hockey palace in Fargo to rival REA? We're talking $100 million plus type of donor here. And if such is ever built, will the hockey culture in Fargo ever rival that of GF to fill 10,000+ seats every game? And if given the choice, would a star recruit wanted by both UND & NDSU prefer to play for a team with the best rink, bar none, with 7 (or more) national championship banners hanging in the rafters & with a proven track record of sending the most players to the NHL? Or would he prefer to play for the Thundering Herd? Most, if not all star recruits, who grew up outside F/M would choose UND; most who hadn't been hit in the head by too many pucks anyway....St. Cloud St. has had it it tough for decades & has never won a national championship, even though it's fielded some pretty respectable teams. How much harder would it be for NDSU? Agree to disagee, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Would anyone care from St Cloud or Mankato about UND or Minnesotas tradition if they just say won 3 out of the next 6 hockey championships. While UND hasn't won one in over 15 years? "Star Recruits" don't always win championships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodak651 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 That's a pretty big if, Cratter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redneksioux Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Any D1 can beat another D1 team on a given night. That's obvious. But over the long haul, tradition, stature & facilities would bring in way more talent for UND than NDSU on a consistent basis. That shouldn't even be debatable. You said "with the right investments...", does NDSU have an Englestad-type benefactor who can build another hockey palace in Fargo to rival REA? We're talking $100 million plus type of donor here. And if such is ever built, will the hockey culture in Fargo ever rival that of GF to fill 10,000+ seats every game? And if given the choice, would a star recruit wanted by both UND & NDSU prefer to play for a team with the best rink, bar none, with 7 (or more) national championship banners hanging in the rafters & with a proven track record of sending the most players to the NHL? Or would he prefer to play for the Thundering Herd? Most, if not all star recruits, who grew up outside F/M would choose UND; most who hadn't been hit in the head by too many pucks anyway....St. Cloud St. has had it it tough for decades & has never won a national championship, even though it's fielded some pretty respectable teams. How much harder would it be for NDSU?Agree to disagee, I guess. The Ralph is great and all but what percentage of Canadian recruits grew up knowing about the Sioux and dreamt of playing for und? Sure it can wow some recruits but if I were a recruit on a scouting visit my observation of game time atmosphere would play a big role in my decision. The Ralph lacks this in most games big time. Go to a game or two in st cloud this weekend. At least und and the husky fans bring an atmosphere in clown town. I agree there are few current teams that carry und's stature and tradition in college hockey today. But take a review of the past 14 national champions and tell me which of these teams will consistently win the big one due to their stature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InHeavenThereIsNoBeer Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 The Ralph is great and all but what percentage of Canadian recruits grew up knowing about the Sioux and dreamt of playing for und? Sure it can wow some recruits but if I were a recruit on a scouting visit my observation of game time atmosphere would play a big role in my decision. The Ralph lacks this in most games big time. Go to a game or two in st cloud this weekend. At least und and the husky fans bring an atmosphere in clown town. I agree there are few current teams that carry und's stature and tradition in college hockey today. But take a review of the past 14 national champions and tell me which of these teams will consistently win the big one due to their stature. I think people take the atmosphere for granted at the ralph. When the Sioux are rolling you seriously think the concrete center in St. Cloud can rival the noise in the ralph? Last weekend for example at the Miami game, it was a pretty loud arena. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redneksioux Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I think people take the atmosphere for granted at the ralph. When the Sioux are rolling you seriously think the concrete center in St. Cloud can rival the noise in the ralph? Last weekend for example at the Miami game, it was a pretty loud arena. Last weekend was loud. But the atmosphere is generally weak on a regular basis. Too many attendees not the type of a hockey game.....it's treated closer to that of a movie theater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMSioux Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 So now they've found a way to infuse FU into hockey conversations - FU decision makers are not interested in adding hockey, they had the chance, they passed. Can't we try and keep the hockey threads an FU-free zone? I have never understood the reason for bashing Saint Cloud - we don't like it when the rodent fans look down their nose at us, why do so many insist on doing it to Saint Cloud. Having been to several games there (always when the Sioux are in town) they have a nice arena, recently remodeled which shows support, a great student section that is always full and have invested in coaches which has resulted in strong recruiting and a run of great teams. Plus their booster club is very welcoming to UND fans at their social every year - it's a competitive rivalry and an easy road trip. What's not to like? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I am reading through this thread that once ASU announced we are seeing more schools openly talk about adding hockey programs (just read articles about Arizona and Buffalo). I really think that ASU going D1 is the big break that will lead to alot more schools starting hockey programs. That's a good thing for college hockey and it's a good thing for hockey in the U.S. in general. Like I posted earlier, UND is like royalty in college hockey, occupying the upper crust of the sport with schools like BC and Minny. College hockey expansion will not hurt UND in any way, in fact it will only serve as a way to expand the schools profile and presence across more of the country. I wish USD would get into the D1 hockey game. College hockey is a great sport. With the new Sanford Arena in Sioux Falls, its almost crying out for a college hockey team. I doubt USD could swing it, as USD would have to add 24 women's scholarships as USD is only 40% or so men. Besides that, football and bb are crying out for more funds. I doubt the NCHC would extend an invite, but the WCHA would. If I was the Augustana admin, I would seriously consider DI hockey. It would be a way to get in the DI circles, and it would locally usurp USF. The WCHA would almost certainly take the Vikings. It would be a good sell throughout the Sioux Falls area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InHeavenThereIsNoBeer Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Last weekend was loud. But the atmosphere is generally weak on a regular basis. Too many attendees not the type of a hockey game.....it's treated closer to that of a movie theater. I think the student section has stepped it up this year and started to make it into the atmosphere we'd all like to have consistently. Last year was disappointing for sure as far as atmosphere but hopefully it gets to where we all know it can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozen4sioux Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 What is going on today in the Valley.... The Sugar beet plants pumping out some evil smog that makes people lose their mind. No. the answer is no. NDSU with $150 million...or $250,000,000 can not march or thunder...or stumble into the D1 hockey world and match UND or UM or even SCSU. That doesn't work...a recruit would get one foul paint peeling wiffed of the west fargo dump and be outta there so fast the Thompson cop would write him up for his NHL signing bonus on the way North. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 They'll reach UND's stature once they have a $104 million dollar facility, reel off about 4 or 5 natties & find a time machine that can retro-establish their program to 1929 to equal UND's long history & tradition. Side note: Feel free to unclick the bold (B) any time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petey23 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 So now they've found a way to infuse FU into hockey conversations - FU decision makers are not interested in adding hockey, they had the chance, they passed. Can't we try and keep the hockey threads an FU-free zone? I have never understood the reason for bashing Saint Cloud - we don't like it when the rodent fans look down their nose at us, why do so many insist on doing it to Saint Cloud. Having been to several games there (always when the Sioux are in town) they have a nice arena, recently remodeled which shows support, a great student section that is always full and have invested in coaches which has resulted in strong recruiting and a run of great teams. Plus their booster club is very welcoming to UND fans at their social every year - it's a competitive rivalry and an easy road trip. What's not to like? Best road trip of the year for me. Have met some great fans(friends) from St. Cloud. Always a good time there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 They'll reach UND's stature once they have a $104 million dollar facility, reel off about 4 or 5 natties & find a time machine that can retro-establish their program to 1929 to equal UND's long history & tradition. Another member of the $100 million arena cult...yea, that's a sure-fire guarantee of success, isn't it? Arizona State shouldn't even bother trying until they can spend $150 million and top REA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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