College Hockey Expansion

[The Sicatoka]

Current BTHC (6): UMn, UW, UMi, MiSU, OSU, PSU. 

Soon to be BTHC (7): UMn, UW, UMi, MiSU, OSU, PSU, Notre Dame. 

Seven is not a great, workable number. Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, and Penn State got Notre Dame in (affiliate) to put butts into (hockey rink) seats. Minnesota and Wisconsin went along, but what are they going to get in exchange? 

I really could see BTHC looking to add an eighth team to make scheduling and post-season conference play easier. 

[The Sicatoka]

2 minutes ago, Blackheart said:

You mean they aren't the same person?

Shhhhhhh!!!!!!

Don't give it away! 

 

[jdub27]

36 minutes ago, GFG said:

Obviously we have no idea how that would be figured out, but there's no way UND is making a lot of money in the NCHC. They literally ARE the conference. Even with revenue sharing from the Frozen Faceoff it's basically UND supporting everyone else. In the B1G they would be revenue sharing with schools that make much more money in hockey than most NCHC teams do. Between UND, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Penn State and Michigan alone...I would bet it would far exceed what UND is getting now to be the support beam for their entire conference. Add in that the entire conference tournament will soon be held at campus sites and it will basically guarantee sell outs for the tournament IMO. 

UND would also be able to keep any television deals they want. Big Ten gets first pick for their select games, but after that they can have Midco, Fox sports, NBC, CBS, FCS...whomever they want can broadcast their games not chosen by BTN. And basically every game is streamed on BTN2Go and/or Fox Sports Go. I suppose Watch ESPN occasionally since they do some B1G games. There's just so much more opportunity for money to be made and higher revenue to be shared.

Not only that, but they get their university associated with the Big Ten and can probably pick up more scheduling arrangements for basketball, volleyball, etc. with B1G teams. 

You're assuming that the B1G hockey makes money, which I find hard to believe at this point. The revenue they would want/need to share in would be the conference revenue and that would require the rest of the B1G members to OK it, including those that don't play hockey. Plausible? Sure, but again, would have to be worthwhile and come with some protections.

UND already has a TV deal with Midco, I don't see that changing.

That song and dance has been used forever and hasn't led to a single OOC game against Miami, Western Michigan, Denver or Omaha in any sports. At best, UND would get offered a chance to play at some B1G locations in those sports, which they already do (with the exception of Iowa traveling here in WBB this season).

And you're saying that UMD or Omaha would be invited if UND turns it down? I don't see the other B1G schools excited to share the "B1G prestige" with those schools (and I include UND in that). Arizona State has a better chance than anything mentioned here but they can't get their arena situation figured out. I don't doubt the B1G is exploring options and I'll have no issue being the first to admit I was wrong if it happens but I guess I'm not buying what you're selling.

[Melvin]

46 minutes ago, southpaw said:

So this article by Tom Miller from November 5th about UND working on a deal with the Summit/MVFC doesn't count?

I was going to ask the same question when Miller FOIAed the school and broke a story. I also thought Brad and Tom worked on the story when the finalization of switching leagues was happening. 

[The Sicatoka]

The other question that just rattled in my head -- women's hockey at B1G members: UMn, UW, OSU, PSU. 

[GFG]

For John's Hopkins:

Quote

Among the requirements that JHU deemed to be important were an initial membership period of 5 years and that the school could maintain its current TV contract with ESPNU. A number of Big Ten observers thought that the latter TV rights item would be an obstacle on paper (since increasing the inventory of desirable non-football/basketball programming has been a primary goal of the Big Ten Network), but that was assuaged by the fact that Johns Hopkins would not receive any conference revenue (which would make any potential complications as to how an affiliate member would partake in the BTN money trough moot).

So Johns Hopkins and Notre Dame don't get conference revenue because they didn't want to give up their primary media rights. In other words, UND can get conference revenue if they allow the B1G to have primary media rights (basically first pick of games to televise, which is better than Midco nationally). Even when the B1G receives those primary media rights I believe UND can still sign a deal with someone else for 2nd tier rights. So I believe they could still have a contract with Midco to broadcast every game that BTN doesn't air AND have the feed thrown on FCS (benefits FOX then). Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this. 

[Boomer 40AAA]

Paging GFHockey for the GOBC'S decision on this.

[southpaw]

31 minutes ago, GFG said:

For John's Hopkins:

So Johns Hopkins and Notre Dame don't get conference revenue because they didn't want to give up their primary media rights. In other words, UND can get conference revenue if they allow the B1G to have primary media rights (basically first pick of games to televise, which is better than Midco nationally). Even when the B1G receives those primary media rights I believe UND can still sign a deal with someone else for 2nd tier rights. So I believe they could still have a contract with Midco to broadcast every game that BTN doesn't air AND have the feed thrown on FCS (benefits FOX then). Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this. 

UND already has a deal with Midco for 2nd tier in which CBSSN has dibs at 1st tier.  If CBSSN wanted to, they could do every UND game and leave Midco high and dry.

Midco has shown they don't want a significant number of their hockey games on FCS for a variety of reasons.  That won't change once the B10 comes calling and wants to take away even more games.

[Rebel_Sioux]

2 hours ago, GFG said:

It's very true. The B1G is doing research about it right now and are hoping to get the university presidents to unanimously approve UND for it at some point. The source said they expect UND to accept the offer if it reaches that far. It's all posted on Gopher Illustrated (Scout.com pay site) from a guy with deep sources. It's a pretty in depth thing for something that's in process right now. Minnesota (no surprise) and Wisconsin led the charge and all 6 B1G hockey AD's are on board to add UND. The guy used to break news on college football realignment stuff months (Nebraska and others) before it was announced in the media. He also said Notre Dame hockey was going to the B1G 60 days before it was announced. He was talking about the PJ Fleck to Minnesota stuff long before the media did as well. He has a very, very good source. The B1G AD's believe UND is becoming more interested in joining by the day and it's explained why in the info.

He said it will be regional/national news some time before the end of 2017 that UND is the primary target for the 8th member of B1G hockey.

Sounds like the same source yeah

[southpaw]

1 hour ago, GFG said:

Obviously we have no idea how that would be figured out, but there's no way UND is making a lot of money in the NCHC. They literally ARE the conference. Even with revenue sharing from the Frozen Faceoff it's basically UND supporting everyone else. In the B1G they would be revenue sharing with schools that make much more money in hockey than most NCHC teams do. Between UND, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Penn State and Michigan alone...I would bet it would far exceed what UND is getting now to be the support beam for their entire conference. Add in that the entire conference tournament will soon be held at campus sites and it will basically guarantee sell outs for the tournament IMO. 

UND would also be able to keep any television deals they want. Big Ten gets first pick for their select games, but after that they can have Midco, Fox sports, NBC, CBS, FCS...whomever they want can broadcast their games not chosen by BTN. And basically every game is streamed on BTN2Go and/or Fox Sports Go. I suppose Watch ESPN occasionally since they do some B1G games. There's just so much more opportunity for money to be made and higher revenue to be shared.

Not only that, but they get their university associated with the Big Ten and can probably pick up more scheduling arrangements for basketball, volleyball, etc. with B1G teams. 

Yes, the conference gets more money when UND hosts in the 1st round of the playoffs and makes the Frozen Faceoff.  That money from those two rounds of playoffs are what funds the NCHC for the entire year.  The payouts from the tournament are minimal, just like they were for the Final 5.  The conference keeps that money because they have to stay in business.

The TV deal is no different than the one the NCHC has with CBSSN except that the B10 gets funding from the B10 Network.  If UND is included in that funding, I would say think about it.  However, at this point UND needs to think about long-term future (security) not just what is good right now ($$$).  How many more B10 teams can add hockey before UND is voted out?  What happens then, after UND pissed away relationships with the five schools they've had relationships with in the WCHA and NCHC?  

[GFG]

2 minutes ago, southpaw said:

How many more B10 teams can add hockey before UND is voted out?  What happens then, after UND pissed away relationships with the five schools they've had relationships with in the WCHA and NCHC?  

I wouldn't expect any. Chances are we won't ever see another B1G school add hockey unless they have a donor like Pegula. There are none ready to invest in it and I wouldn't expect to see any in the future with the arms race in football in the B1G. The hockey schools want UND because they want to improve the conference, so in reality I can't imagine there's any reason they would want to get rid of them. 

[Rebel_Sioux]

Lots of factors at play I suppose.

 

1. The biggest is of course money, will UND get a fair share of revenue (assuming there is any)? Will Kennedy make a move that requires a buyout from the NCHC

2. Currently we have more rivals here and better competition but are those factors still true if UMD or UNO leave?

3. If UMD/UNO, leave, who replaces them? ASU, Minnesota State, or someone else?

4. Pipe dream here, could UND eventually become a Big 10 member in all sports?

5. How does future expansion of college hockey (within Big Ten or westward) influence this decision? Essentially, does UND view the NCHC as a stepping stone, or as a longterm home?

My answers:

1. If UND gets a fair financial deal, I'd suspect Kennedy would take the deal.

2. The NCHC would probably be pretty even with Big 10 if UMD or UNO leaves.

3. I'd suspect ASU would be the first choice for the western schools

4. Probably not

5. There are many potential schools, but as previously noted by others, any expansion for any school is dependent on a sizable donation and a willing school administrator.

[cberkas]

1 hour ago, GFG said:

The NCHC is getting raided either way...if UND doesn't go it's either Duluth or Omaha and I can probably tell you which one they would push to make Minnesota fans happy. Would UND fans like the NCHC as much without Duluth? UND knows the NCHC is going to keep expanding west and if there are teams that start up out there it's almost certainly going to be power 5 schools with no hockey tradition or anything. If you're UND and you know you'll eventually be sharing a conference with Power 5 schools wouldn't you rather be with the B1G where you at least have some traditional hockey powers? The money will be figured out.

And the B1G looks like it's on the verge of becoming a very good conference. If you add UND and Notre Dame to it I think you'll have the new power conference in college hockey. Wisconsin is resurging, PSU is actually pretty good, the pairwise supports that. OSU has shown strides and if they can at least keep where they are will be pretty good. Michigan will obviously improve. Michigan State will forever be garbage until they fire Anastos.

From what I've seen from the realignment the former CCHA schools haven't done all that well in their new conferences, the exception being Ferris State. Omaha needs money more then anyone one else, but they are losing Blais and the rumor is this is his final year. Omaha has an obsession with UND for some reason.

The B1G even considering adding UND, Duluth, or Omaha, that says that no other school in the B1G is adding hockey.

If the team you want doesn't agree to the terms do you think Duluth, Omaha or anyone else would agree to them?

We'll see what happens when it happens, but the core of the NCHC looks to be together. Like I said UND will only go to the B1G if they are getting BTN money.

 

[cberkas]

1 hour ago, GFG said:

Here's a snippet of what he said: 

The number the Big Ten Hockey Conference does not want to sit on for very long is 7...as in 7 members. Odd number schools in a Hockey Conference brings on scheduling headaches. Big Ten wants to fill up the BTN and BTN2GO (and other FOX affiliates) with as much live sport content as possible. Truth is numbers for any one Hockey game is minimal...but the numbers for live sport content is always better..and can induce better AD buys than non live sport content. BTN has successfully bundled up 3rd Tier content and distributed on its network which has a 51/49 ownership between FOX and Big Ten Conference.

Minnesota and Wisconsin want to be paid back. They want to be paid back in full on having to leave the WCHA and to create the Big Ten Hockey Conference. Michigan for the first time since the creation of the Big Ten Hockey Conference is on board with going to the Big Ten Presidents with a presentation to include North Dakota as an affliate member along with Notre Dame (Hockey) and Johns Hopkins (Lacrosse)

But the B1G doesn't do that now.

[gfhockey]

We have been approached

 

rhis is way over faisons head 

 

we want to see ink on paper with what they have to offer

[SiouxFanatic]

4 minutes ago, gfhockey said:

We have been approached

 

rhis is way over faisons head 

 

we want to see ink on paper with what they have to offer

The GOBC has spoken! They're never wrong on stuff. 

[bigskyvikes]

1 hour ago, gfhockey said:

We have been approached

 

rhis is way over faisons head 

 

we want to see ink on paper with what they have to offer

It's been a long time since we've read dumb sh*t like this from the #gobc or what is the symbol for  go f***k yourself gobc?

[tnt]

3 hours ago, bigskyvikes said:

"they better get this" "they better get that" "this needs to be figured out" "perspectives need to be figured out". Holy cow, some of you think you're the only ones wanting to protect UND! You think maybe UND may want to protect UND? Nobody knows anything for sure and people are having melt downs, this is exciting speculation and I can't wait to hear what comes of it, if anything...

This is a message board, so expressing concerns is allowed, especially after the egg left on the face of some when South Dakota didn't join the Big Sky like they were supposed to, and now we are switching conferences again.  People were supposed to be looking out for UND then as well.  Then having to ask St. Cloud to join the NCHC when Notre Dame made demands.  I think people just want to avoid those type of scenarios.

[gfhockey]

We will be going the negotiating 

[bigskyvikes]

10 minutes ago, tnt said:

This is a message board, so expressing concerns is allowed, especially after the egg left on the face of some when South Dakota didn't join the Big Sky like they were supposed to, and now we are switching conferences again.  People were supposed to be looking out for UND then as well.  Then having to ask St. Cloud to join the NCHC when Notre Dame made demands.  I think people just want to avoid those type of scenarios.

Expressing is one thing, but acting like you (some people on here) know more of what's best for UND then UND does is hilarious to read! You do know that no one on here has any say in the decision being made by the Big 10 and UND right? Even the gobc

If everyone on SS.com did not want UND to go to the big 10 and UND wanted to go to the big 10, they would still go to the big 10 you know...

That's all I'm trying to saying.

[tnt]

I just think people are so gun shy about things that you would think would be common sense with the whole nickname issue and dropping of sports that they may think administration will say one thing and do another.

[Blackheart]

48 minutes ago, gfhockey said:

We will be going the negotiating 

Make sure they include a keg of Busch Light as part of the deal.

[Blackheart]

3 hours ago, GFG said:

IThe hockey schools want UND because they want to improve the conference, so in reality I can't imagine there's any reason they would want to get rid of them. 

What if Lucia decides that playing UND is not a healthy rivalry again?

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

6 hours ago, Melvin said:

Making predictions in football are different than hockey. Don't you think that Schloss would've reported this if it was true?

The GF Herald had the UND Summit and MVFC news out before it was announced. Should of heard the screaming on Bizonville in that how can they print this yet, the MVFC Presidents aren't even voting till tomorrow.

 

Well, the next day, fans are waiting for news to come out of that  meeting.

All we got:

 

MVFC Meeting

 

Pres. A “We have enough buses”

Pres. C “We have to enlarge gas tank on our bus”

Pres I    “We’ll have to carry a spare tire”

Pres. G “We will have to Fly”

Pres. D “I will go along with whatever”

Pres. H. “We might leave”

Institution E “We don’t have a Pres.”

Pres. J “We don’t really care about FB”

Institution B “We are losing our Pres.”

Pres. F “Does FOIA apply with texting?”

Patty Viverito “Break, re-group in half hour”

 

And, the next day at the Betty it's announced.

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

5 hours ago, jdub27 said:

The financial incentives and guarantees would have to make it more than worthwhile, especially considering the buyout from the NCHC is something like $1.1 million. The only exceptions the B1G has made for affiliate members are Johns Hopkins lacrosse and Notre Dame hockey. As much as I like UND, they are nowhere in the same class as either of those schools.

Except in HOCKEY.