Future UND/ Bison football Game

[UND-FB-FAN]

SDSU has not won a FBS game either and they appear to be going just fine and you are right two years into Big Sky, lets scrap it...it sucks they are too tough for us. Good grief people, give some time.

And how much time will that be?

I understand patience, but let's not beat a dead horse here. Although patience is required given UND's situation, UND supporters need to perhaps raise their expectations a bit. I still expect UND to go 5-7 or 6-6 this year and end up additionally improved in 2015 with a winning year. Are those unrealistic? Absolutely not, IMO. If UND is a flagship university, then they should not need 5 years to finally have a winning record in the Big Sky Conference.

[fightingsioux4life]

After reading how you're tired of UND being at the bottom of the Big Sky Conference, which everyone is tired of seeing UND at the bottom of the Big Sky in football. Look at fans of University of Kansas, their basketball team is tops in the nation year in year out but their football team is terrible (All-Time Record: Football 576-589-58; Basketball 2101-812). Granted comparing Kansas and UND isn't the greatest comparison out there. Both have a program that is good (UND-Hockey, Kansas-Basketball) and have been bad in football recently, and Kansas fans have more to complain about then the UND fans when it come to football.

I'm not expecting UND football to be good this year. If they're .500 this year my expectations have been met for the season, and hopefully they improve the next two years. I'd like to see UND schedule non-conference games against teams better then them. Playing better non-conference teams should push the team to get better when they play the better teams in the Big Sky. The coaching staff can only prepare the team to come out and win each game. It's up to to the guys that put the jersey on and go out on the field to play like they don't want to be at the bottom of the Big Sky.

Wasn't this the rationale some used for keeping Mussman because "he didn't suit up for any of the games"?   And yes, I am bringing Mussman up again and no, I don't think it is out of line.  He took what once was a nationally-competitive football program and essentially ran it into the ground.  This is as bad as we've looked since 1986 and the buck stops with the CEO and nobody else.  I do think Bubba will get the job done, but it's going to take a lot of time and patience from us and from the community.  And that means getting out and supporting the team win, lose or draw.  I'll be there, in the same seats I've had since 2001.  How many others will be there?

[fightingsioux4life]

And how much time will that be?

I understand patience, but let's not beat a dead horse here. Although patience is required given UND's situation, UND supporters need to perhaps raise their expectations a bit. I still expect UND to go 5-7 or 6-6 this year and end up additionally improved in 2015 with a winning year. Are those unrealistic? Absolutely not, IMO. If UND is a flagship university, then they should not need 5 years to finally have a winning record in the Big Sky Conference.

I agree with this.  Exactly one year ago, I posted the following commentary on the state of UND sports and why many of us were (are) so frustrated at the lack of success from our FB program and a few other areas as well (i.e. ZERO NCAA titles under Hakstol, the struggles of Men's BB).  Go back about 15 years and most of our fan base felt the same way when it came to having high expectations for our teams.  Today, it has really deteriorated in a lot of quarters.  We need to get back to the expectations we used to have in the 1980's and 1990's and stop using the same tired old excuses all the time.  End rant.

[darell1976]

It took Roger Thomas from 1986 to 1990 to even start competiting finally reaching the playoffs in 1992 and a conference title in 1993. That's 7 years from the bottom of the hole to the top of the hole. This is year 1 for Bubba he has a while to get to the top of the hole. As for being at the bottom of the BSC this is our 3rd year in it we were in the GWFC longer...patience grasshoppers, Muss f'd the football team big time now it's time to put the pieces back together.

[geaux_sioux]

Seems to me the logical thing to do is try to get into the Missouri Valley.

Personally I'd love that. All sports though.

[Irish]

SDSU has not won a FBS game either and they appear to be going just fine and you are right two years into Big Sky, lets scrap it...it sucks they are too tough for us.  Good grief people, give some time.

This is our 8th year of our current suckhole.  How much time do you want.  

[iramurphy]

Name the last significant recruit that picked UND over NDSU and who made an impact at UND? Weston Dressler maybe?

How far back do you want to go? Dressler and the Manke brothers? Mollberg is just getting started. Nothing we can do now about the past. So what about now?

Write these 2 names down. Elijah Grady and Mason Bennett. The immediate impact is UND has 2 early commits who can influence what other kids see and think about where we are going. You maybe don't understand that what is done is done. We move on and will get better day by day. Same thing the AC had to do after they were down. Same thing any program does when they have struggled. Most of the AC fans are enjoying the ride. Some don't seem to be happy unless they can try and make someone else feel badly. Who gives a rats behind who the last impact player was? Keep checking that rear view mirror and you might find yourself in the ditch. Doubt it will be this year and maybe not next but we are coming after you guys. In the meantime, enjoy your success and quit fussing over what anyone else does or doesn't do.

[The Sicatoka]

I know some (NDSU fans) will take great and deep offense at this, but I do sincerely mean this as a great compliment:

NDSU does not run anything exceptional; but, they run everything they run exceptionally.

- NDSU's blocking schemes are not revolutionary; their guys run them to precision every time, and it's actually surprising when they miss an assignment or a block

- NDSU's plays are not revolutionary either; but, again they run them to precise perfection.

- NDSU's defense is a base Tampa Two. Nothing earth-shattering there, but again, every player is assignment sharp and makes the tackle that needs to be made.

NDSU is playing crisp, assignment sharp, precision football. There's nothing there that can not be replicated ... if a culture where that is the expectation is put in place.

NDSU has that culture. Their battle is maintaining it as complacency (and injury) are the enemy.

UND has to create that culture and climb that climb. I know that would never have happened under Mussman. I believe it is more possible under Schweigert.

One more observation about NDSU:

Their guys did not fatigue against Iowa State. They didn't against Kansas State last year either. NDSU's guys seem stronger and fresher at the end of the game. They seem better conditioned. (That was a big part of Dean Blais' UND hockey teams' success: they were fresh late in games.)

UND's Football CEO needs to address strength and conditioning as I believe I can correlate that to the present state of the program as well.

[WYOBISONMAN]

 I don't think any Bison fan would be offended by that.   Football is about fundamentals and execution. 

[Irish]

How far back do you want to go? Dressler and the Manke brothers? Mollberg is just getting started. Nothing we can do now about the past. So what about now?

Write these 2 names down. Elijah Grady and Mason Bennett. The immediate impact is UND has 2 early commits who can influence what other kids see and think about where we are going. You maybe don't understand that what is done is done. We move on and will get better day by day. Same thing the AC had to do after they were down. Same thing any program does when they have struggled. Most of the AC fans are enjoying the ride. Some don't seem to be happy unless they can try and make someone else feel badly. Who gives a rats behind who the last impact player was? Keep checking that rear view mirror and you might find yourself in the ditch. Doubt it will be this year and maybe not next but we are coming after you guys. In the meantime, enjoy your success and quit fussing over what anyone else does or doesn't do.

You are a poster that seems pretty with it and plugged in to the powers that be - I'll ask you the question I posed earlier and no one responded to - "How long would have Muss lasted at NDSU?" - Seems like the answer to this explains the current state of the two programs.  

[FSSD]

This is our 8th year of our current suckhole.  How much time do you want.  

 

It's the start of our 3rd year on even footing.. if you wanted to be competitive earlier you should have moved the program back in 2003.

[UND-FB-FAN]

I'm just looking forward...I'm hoping for a 5-7 or 6-6 2014 record meaning a high likelihood of success in 2015.

[Irish]

It's the start of our 3rd year on even footing.. if you wanted to be competitive earlier you should have moved the program back in 2003.

It wasn't mine to move - 

[iramurphy]

You are a poster that seems pretty with it and plugged in to the powers that be - I'll ask you the question I posed earlier and no one responded to - "How long would have Muss lasted at NDSU?" - Seems like the answer to this explains the current state of the two programs.

Don't know, I'm certainly not plugged into the AC. Mussman wasn't coaching there so we don't know how long he would have lasted. I wasn't sure he was the right guy but we needed someone at the end of the Lennon era and he was as good of a choice as any if we weren't going to bring in someone from the outside and make a more rapid and aggressive transition. I think Mussman has been blamed and criticized to the point that we are kicking a dead horse. We are where we are and I don't need anyone to blame. I really don't care how long he would have lasted elsewhere. The difference in where we are and where others are is multi factorial. The timing of the move up, Chapman's focus on athletics, Kupchella's lack of understanding of the workings and importance of intercollegiate athletics. Hiring Bunning instead of Bollinger. The 1997 flood. The lack of focus on the move up during the name debacle. The support for athletics from AC foundation and support from the Fargo Moorhead community vs Grand Forks EGF and the UND foundations unwillingness to make a major impact. The loss of the $10,000,000 Sanford donation, and their CEO's broken promise to be a major part of UND athletics. The media support from the Forum and Fargo TV vs the Herald. Lots and lots of factors, some bigger than others. I would focus on would be how to upgrade our program now. Day by day, game by game, year by year. Right now we need butts in the seats at games, improve our marketing and media exposure and phase I and II of the new facility done ASAP. Recruiting looks very good for next year so far. Let's see if we can get a win Saturday. Go Sioux.

[gfNDfan]

You are a poster that seems pretty with it and plugged in to the powers that be - I'll ask you the question I posed earlier and no one responded to - "How long would have Muss lasted at NDSU?" - Seems like the answer to this explains the current state of the two programs.  

 

 

Answer is he had a chance but blew it - don't make him a bad person.  I still like Chris.  I just know he's not a Division 1 football coach and thats okay.  NDSU under Bob Babich was a disaster....embarrasingly tanking in the world of D2 football but lo and behold SU decides to move up and he got "promoted":-) to the NFL so they hired a new coach to take them through the transition and beyond.  Bohl lost to UND (again!) and took his lumps but he had the appropriate time to build his vision so when they got past the 5 year bs and into full FCS they were ready to roll! 

 

Mussman inherited a solid D2 program ready for the transition and (frankly) didn't know what the hell he got himself into or where he was going so he f*cked up our transition with quick fixes, bad overall schemes and no discipline - and it ended up f*cking him in the end.  Now this year we have to start at square 1 to build a real FCS program WITH an FCS ready coach.  I'm fine with it but it IS going to take some time..

[gfNDfan]

IRA and I are only geniuses separated by only 3 minutes of time....DAMMMIT are you in that EastCoastMatrixThingy IRA?:-)

[Irish]

Don't know, I'm certainly not plugged into the AC. Mussman wasn't coaching there so we don't know how long he would have lasted. I wasn't sure he was the right guy but we needed someone at the end of the Lennon era and he was as good of a choice as any if we weren't going to bring in someone from the outside and make a more rapid and aggressive transition. I think Mussman has been blamed and criticized to the point that we are kicking a dead horse. We are where we are and I don't need anyone to blame. I really don't care how long he would have lasted elsewhere. The difference in where we are and where others are is multi factorial. The timing of the move up, Chapman's focus on athletics, Kupchella's lack of understanding of the workings and importance of intercollegiate athletics. Hiring Bunning instead of Bollinger. The 1997 flood. The lack of focus on the move up during the name debacle. The support for athletics from AC foundation and support from the Fargo Moorhead community vs Grand Forks EGF and the UND foundations unwillingness to make a major impact. The loss of the $10,000,000 Sanford donation, and their CEO's broken promise to be a major part of UND athletics. The media support from the Forum and Fargo TV vs the Herald. Lots and lots of factors, some bigger than others. I would focus on would be how to upgrade our program now. Day by day, game by game, year by year. Right now we need butts in the seats at games, improve our marketing and media exposure and phase I and II of the new facility done ASAP. Recruiting looks very good for next year so far. Let's see if we can get a win Saturday. Go Sioux.

Nice sidestep - I think everyone knows the answer but no one is willing to admit it.  

[Oxbow6]

Nice sidestep - I think everyone knows the answer but no one is willing to admit it.

Both Babich and Muss were at each school as HC for 5 years. Bob...46-22. Muss ...31-34. The USD game for Muss in '11 bought him a longer rope... plain and simple. UND loses that game and he is fired in '12.

Hypothetical question you are asking...not sure the answer. My hypothetical guess would be that in exact same scenario after '11 and '12...Bob doesn't get another year in '13 at SU. Just my what if opinion.

[Herd]

I don't get that. Hakstol took us to the NC game (or at least to the playoffs), Muss barely got us to .500.   

 

It was a big win, because it gave us a home for football. What alternative did our football team have? Independent until they found a home. 

Hey, the Summit wanted you/needed you.   If you would have joined the Summit, the other Summit teams would have been your support and ticket to join the MVFC, and quickly.   You would be in the MVFC right now, no doubt about that.

 

Over and over I hear . . . "The MVFC would not take us".   Idiots, all you had to do was join the Summit, and the offer would have come quickly.     Hey, maybe you are happier in the BSC . . . if so, good for you, but please don't whine about the MVFC not inviting you, all you had to do was join the Summit.

 

If my post ignites another round of Summit bashing, then so be it.  Check the Summit sagarin vs. the BSC.   A little more Summit bashig will hopefully keep you in the BSC and out of the MVFC for a few more recruting cycles . . . ha, ha.    Honestly, your FB is not better off in the BSC.

[Herd]

SDSU has not won a FBS game either and they appear to be going just fine and you are right two years into Big Sky, lets scrap it...it sucks they are too tough for us.  Good grief people, give some time.

 

SDSU not winning FBS games can be attributed to their schedule.  holy crap, they've played murderer's row when it comes to FBS games compared to UND and NDSU.     NE (2), MO, IL, KS etc, etc.   Not going to knock SDSU, they've played great teams tough as shown again by their game at MO this week.   Not too many WY, SJ, Fresno's for Ball States on SDSU's schedule.

[The Sicatoka]

Saying "Oh the MVFC will open up to you if you join the SL" is one thing.

Actually having the invitation on paper is quite another.

You go with what's on paper.

[2011BisonAlumni]

SDSU has played in the playoffs multiple times, beat numerous ranked FCS teams , including quite possibly the best NDSU team of all time, 2007 NDSU, who entered that game ranked #1 FCS in the country, 10-0, having beat 2 FBS teams that year.

To try to compare UND to SDSU in the D1 era is hilarious. UND to USD is much more comparable, but hell, even USD has beat a couple ranked FCS teams and has that FBS win over Minnesota.

[iramurphy]

It's the start of our 3rd year on even footing.. if you wanted to be competitive earlier you should have moved the program back in 2003.

We both should have moved with UNI, Montana, Montana State, etc., in the 70's, and yes we should have moved together in 2003. We are where we are and we have to deal with it.

[UND1983]

Hey, the Summit wanted you/needed you. If you would have joined the Summit, the other Summit teams would have been your support and ticket to join the MVFC, and quickly. You would be in the MVFC right now, no doubt about that.

Over and over I hear . . . "The MVFC would not take us". Idiots, all you had to do was join the Summit, and the offer would have come quickly. Hey, maybe you are happier in the BSC . . . if so, good for you, but please don't whine about the MVFC not inviting you, all you had to do was join the Summit.

If my post ignites another round of Summit bashing, then so be it. Check the Summit sagarin vs. the BSC. A little more Summit bashig will hopefully keep you in the BSC and out of the MVFC for a few more recruting cycles . . . ha, ha. Honestly, your FB is not better off in the BSC.

What you just said may be most....

[iramurphy]

Nice sidestep - I think everyone knows the answer but no one is willing to admit it.

Did his dog crap on your porch or something? Maybe you were on the team and you didn't get to play. Not sure what you want to hear. Mussman didn't get the job done. A lot of hs coaches and alums felt he was aloof and not approachable. There seemed to be some improvement and we changed presidents and we changed AD's. If Kelly was here all along or Faison was here all along it may have been different but it isn't. People on this board don't make these decisions unless you count gfhockey and he makes all of the decisions Monday mornings at the truck stop with his " good ole boys". If it makes you happy he would have lasted 4 yrs and 3 mo at the AC. What else do you want to say about him. I don't think he is a bad guy and he left without bad mouthing the program. His kid is a prospect at this level, maybe higher if he continues to improve. I hope we get a shot at him and I hope Mussman does well wherever he is. If that isn't good enough get out to the truck stop Mon AM and look for a guy with blood shot eyes, and a 3 day hangover. He can answer your questions better than any of us if you buy him a cup of coffee and the truckers special.