What happens if the first petition gains enough signatures?

[82SiouxGuy]

Interesting quote by Fullerton:

“Our concern, as before, is not that they are the Fighting Sioux,” Fullerton said, “but rather whether they can be an effective Division I program and a benefit to our conference.”

I'm not in favor of what the petitioners did, If I was I would have signed the petition as I had numerous opportunities too. I'm just not sure how a UND losing the opportunity to host one maybe two football games would sway them to want to kick us out? How would that impact our ability to be an effective D1 program. If they were going to kick us out it would be because they would rather have 12 teams instead of 13. IMHO

It isn't 1 or 2 games, it is a policy that goes on forever. It isn't just football, it is all sports where they could host. Hosting teams have a much better record in the playoffs, so it would affect the overall strength of the conference. Also, not being able to host playoff games will affect recruiting. Kids would rather go to a place where they could be successful and win. That is difficult if you have to play every playoff game on the road. Plus, other schools will use the ban against UND in recruiting. Sometimes they will even expand on the truth and tell the recruits how UND is damaged in other ways.. They would even use it when recruiting in sports that aren't affected, like men's basketball or hockey. So UND teams will end up bringing in lesser recruits. That again results in weaker teams and less wins. Which results in smaller crowds at the games and less money. Other schools have refused to schedule UND outside of conference. More schools could adapt that policy. That is less money for the program, which weakens the program. It is a vicious cycle that will pull the athletic program down. That's what Fullerton is talking about when he says that UND may not be able to be an effective Division I program under the sanctions.

[jodcon]

It isn't 1 or 2 games, it is a policy that goes on forever. It isn't just football, it is all sports where they could host. Hosting teams have a much better record in the playoffs, so it would affect the overall strength of the conference. Also, not being able to host playoff games will affect recruiting. Kids would rather go to a place where they could be successful and win. That is difficult if you have to play every playoff game on the road. Plus, other schools will use the ban against UND in recruiting. Sometimes they will even expand on the truth and tell the recruits how UND is damaged in other ways.. They would even use it when recruiting in sports that aren't affected, like men's basketball or hockey. So UND teams will end up bringing in lesser recruits. That again results in weaker teams and less wins. Which results in smaller crowds at the games and less money. Other schools have refused to schedule UND outside of conference. More schools could adapt that policy. That is less money for the program, which weakens the program. It is a vicious cycle that will pull the athletic program down. That's what Fullerton is talking about when he says that UND may not be able to be an effective Division I program under the sanctions.

Well said.

[hrkac]

Dan Bareiro is killing the whole state of North Dakota on KFAN. he said," I give up!!!! give them the f-in nickname back! i'm so sick of hearing about it, just give them back the nickname!"

actually pretty funny rant.

[Teeder11]

Rob Portly over at SAB just posted a doozy full of pompous uninformed opinions, biased conjecture, slanted speculation and revisionist history, basically, standard SAB fare. So in other words, nothing new to report there.

http://sayanythingbl...ng-sioux-issue/

[The Sicatoka]

Now it's time for folks to read the North Dakota Constitution, Article VIII, Section 6, paragraph 1, and subparagraph (a):

1. A board of higher education, to be officially known as the state board of higher education, is hereby created for the control and administration of the following state educational institutions, to wit:

a. The state university and school of mines, at Grand Forks, with their substations.

Seems the ND SBoHE should be the controlling, administrating body in this matter. Why they didn't quash Carlson's Folly initially is still a mystery to me.

[ScottM]

Now it's time for folks to read the North Dakota Constitution, Article VIII, Section 6, paragraph 1, and subparagraph (a): Seems the ND SBoHE should be the controlling, administrating body in this matter. Why they didn't quash Carlson's Folly initially is still a mystery to me.

Frankly, I would have jumped on as soon as Dalrymple signed it.

But there may be some strategic, and more political, value to letting this play out to some degree, and then have the Supreme Court kill it. Even Clueless Al seems to have retreated from the statute's efficacy. It may also explain why so many of the politicos backing the repealer were so quiet lately.

[Taz Boy]

Paraphrasing Fullerton's comments:

• "Absolutely we can drop UND. Anytime, for any reason, as long as we get all other schools to agree. That's easy."
  
• "We are awesome. You are not that special. We don't really need you, but you might benefit us at some point if you get your act together."
  
• "Some folks want you gone, others don't care. It's really a coin toss with you guys."
  
• "It's a club. If you don't like it, leave."
  

Mr. Fullerton does not sound like someone who is wildly enthusiastic about UND membership, no matter what the nickname is or will be.

taz

[johnson]

Now it's time for folks to read the North Dakota Constitution, Article VIII, Section 6, paragraph 1, and subparagraph (a):

Seems the ND SBoHE should be the controlling, administrating body in this matter. Why they didn't quash Carlson's Folly initially is still a mystery to me.

Because the SBoHE has been walking on eggshells since Al Carlson became the lead bully in Bismarck.

[Fetch]

Like he said don't " act precipitously"

[Dagger]

Hopefully when Al Carlson runs for office again nobody will vote for him. Not one person. He is a real loser. He is a real phony and not a Sioux nickname lover as he says.

[The Sicatoka]

But there may be some strategic, and more political, value to letting this play out to some degree, and then have the Supreme Court kill it. Even Clueless Al seems to have retreated from the statute's efficacy. It may also explain why so many of the politicos backing the repealer were so quiet lately.

Too much of this has become politics. And yes, I'm beginning to think that many politicos want this to come to a head in the State Supreme Court and die there.

When Carlson pointed out today that the law has no penalty told me and the world he doesn't really believe in that law or its efficacy. Maybe he realizes he's screwed UND and he'll probably face repercussions politically for it.

[bincitysioux]

Fullerton is quite combative and acts as if he could care less if UND remains a member of the league.

Says scheduling would be easier if there were an even number of teams.

Brought up how USD leaving the Big Sky at the alter basically left UND on an island.

Says we should go to the NAIA if we don't like the rules of the NCAA.

Yeah, we're golden.....................

[homer]

Too much of this has become politics. And yes, I'm beginning to think that many politicos want this to come to a head in the State Supreme Court and die there.

When Carlson pointed out today that the law has no penalty told me and the world he doesn't really believe in that law or its efficacy. Maybe he realizes he's screwed UND and he'll probably face repercussions politically for it.

I agree with this completely. Guy remains quiet during this whole process and his only comment is essentially, there is no penalty for breaking the law. Basically saying as I fucked up, don't screw yourselves over my mistake.

[The Sicatoka]

Fullerton is quite combative and acts as if he could care less if UND remains a member of the league.

Says scheduling would be easier if there were an even number of teams.

Brought up how USD leaving the Big Sky at the alter basically left UND on an island.

Says we should go to the NAIA if we don't like the rules of the NCAA.

Yeah, we're golden.....................

Don't worry. The SAB.com crowd will claim Fullerton reallly isn't serious and we all should believe them over the Big Sky commissioner and the NCAA.

[Siouxperfan7]

Just listened to Fullerton on KGFO. To sum up, he basically said that he expects North Dakota to be in the Big Sky starting this summer when we pay our initial dues and compete next year in all athletics. He said that the University will be able to compete with the sanctions and if they can survive then there will not be a problem. But he said that that happening was not very realistic. Once North Dakota does not appear to be an asset to the Big Sky, then they can at any time choose to vote them out. Also said that getting a majority is not that hard to do when all of the Presidents are together. Says they are very common. So while he said that they are not going to get kicked out now, the possibility is certainly very very real.

[bincitysioux]

The more I think about it, it wouldn't be that big of a deal in the event that we kept the name and got expelled from the Big Sky.

Afterall, at least St. Cloud State is contractually obliged to continue playing us in hockey so that rivalry will remain intact.............

That is just as good as Montana, Montana St., Minnesota, Wisconsin, etc....................

[johnson]

I agree with this completely. Guy remains quiet during this whole process and his only comment is essentially, there is no penalty for breaking the law. Basically saying as I fucked up, don't screw yourselves over my mistake.

He was the guest host for the Joel Heitkamp show today. I'm pretty certain the fool now thinks he is off the hook because of the petitions. He said it was "just great" that this was happening.

[Dagger]

Whether a voter is for the nickname or not isn't going to matter. It is going to backfire on Carlson. Carlson's actions on this issue were all politically motivated. Voters can see through the smoke screen. His future in politics is going to be short lived.

[Matt]

Although Port feels the inability to host home playoff games is something the university can live with, I suspect the prospect of a Big Sky Champion UND Football team going on the road in the first round of the playoffs would be something Big Sky Presidents would find an unimpressive development. A DEVELOPMENT ALL PRESIDENTS COULD VOTE TOGETHER ON.

[The Sicatoka]

Afterall, at least St. Cloud State is contractually obliged to continue playing us in hockey so that rivalry will remain intact.............

Contractually obligated ... until they and UMD decide maybe they'd rather play in a conference with Mankato and Bemidji and leave that contract.

[ksixpack]

Wow could McFeeley be any more obvious in his bias against UND...what a blow hard...that is the worst journalism I have every heard. He sounds like a giddy 5th grade girl that just talked to Justin Beiber! Nice leading questions that makes it sound like everyone who supports UND thinks that the Big Sky needs us more than we need them...a couple of petition gatherers say this and he presents it as gospel from everyone that supports UND to Mr. Fullerton. Way to sensationalize and put all 17,000 petitioners in the same box!

As one who signed the petition I would love to be in the Big Sky and do not want to lose that opportunity and I don't think we will because Mr Fullerton said that it is not imminent now that we will be thrown out but if we are marginalized as a D1 school because of NCAA sanctions in the future to the point we are no longer viable or the protests at the athletic events are too big of a distraction than at that point discussion could be brought up to eliminate us. He was clearly talking about a future chain of events clearly after we are in the Big Sky. One, we are definately a viable institution now and will remain so for as far as I can see, we have been before and during all of this nickname debate and will be long after it. Two, there have never been protests big enough to label us a big enough distraction mandate us out of a league.

[Siouxperfan7]

To sum up....The Big Sky is watching very closely how UND is affected now by the sactions that are imposed on them. If they feel that they are not a viable member, the can and WILL vote UND out of the Big Sky Conference. That is a fact. Its time to face reality. Under sanctions, we will most deffinitley feel the affects of it. The ability to schedule games will suffer, recruiting will suffer. In my opinion there is a better chance that we will be kicked ou of the BIG SKY with the name than there is we won't.

[Snake]

Quick question regarding the sanctions on the women's hockey team:

If they finish, say, #3 in the PWR and match up with the #6 team, does the #6 team now get a home game?

Or...will they re-seed UND to #5 and force them to travel to the new #4 (formerly #5)?

That's a double whammy if they have to travel AND face a tougher opponent.

[Chewey]

Scheduling is already in effect to 2016 - http://www.wdaz.com/...rticle/id/8191/ (April 28, 2011 -- right around the time the nickname bill was passed)

Fullerton did not say that if the Montana schools bolt to the Mountain West (and they're being pursued mightily, as I understand it from the FOIA responses) Big Sky is fairly screwed

Fullerton did not say that two of the 13 schools are FB only schools -- Cal Poly and UC Davis -- and if the Montana schools bolt, conference is down to 8 schools anyway with UND in the mix

Montana, MSU, and UND are the only schools that attract a regional or TV interest. UND is needed as an insurance policy.

Also, Fullerton stated that some Big Sky Presidents don't care much about the nickname. By stating that Fullerton is effectively stating that a unanimous vote to expel UND is not even theoretically possible.

Fullerton admits that the WAC badly wants Big Sky schools. If UND was available, the WAC would instantly accept UND (like they did for swimming). No bitching about travel -- See Louisiana Tech. With Idaho, Denver, Seattle, Utah State, N Mex St, and San Jose St, the competition is actually a step up, but the problem for UND is that it would need to spend more for football.

Big Sky is as interested, if not more interested in UND as an institution of Higher Learning: the EERC, Med & Law Schools as well as the Undergraduate program, mean as much, or more, than the Athletic programs. The actual NCAA "sanctions" really do not amount to much.

Contract to BS signed while UND was known as "Fighting Sioux" no representations to be relied upon in writing that name would be changed -- http://www.scribd.co...ig-Sky-Contract (prior to 11/30/10 deadline)

The NCAA is working on a neutral site for the national championship game as they do for division 2 championships.

Conference championships are not subject to NCAA sanctions (See WCHA Final Five)

The SBoHE and Kelley Administration, I have no doubt, have encouraged the NCAA to hold fast. More will be revealed in the litigation in this regard, no doubt, if it goes that far.

[fightingsioux4life]

Quick question regarding the sanctions on the women's hockey team:

If they finish, say, #3 in the PWR and match up with the #6 team, does the #6 team now get a home game?

Or...will they re-seed UND to #5 and force them to travel to the new #4 (formerly #5)?

That's a double whammy if they have to travel AND face a tougher opponent.

But remember, it's "a small price to pay".