82SiouxGuy Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 People simply refuse to believe that Native Americans can actually have their own opinion on this nickname issue. First, we want you on our side to keep the nickname...now we want the nickname to go, so please follow along and retire it? Tim O'Keefe has his opinion...and so does Frank Black Cloud. I respect the rights of both to voice theirs. They both have a right to an opinion. But I would believe that Mr. O'Keefe's opinion is based on better quality information than Mr. Black Cloud's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackheart Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Hakstol sent an email? What did it allegedly say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 They both have a right to an opinion. But I would believe that Mr. O'Keefe's opinion is based on better quality information than Mr. Black Cloud's. Well said. O'Keefe spelled it out...not a complicated read or argument to understand. Logic trumps emotions when comparing those two guy's opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejm Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 ...Logic trumps emotions... Not around here, it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewey Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I figure that there are 4 groups that signed the petition and are pushing to keep the name. There may be more but here is my list:Hockey only crowd - don't care about the university as a whole or the rest of our teamsThe anti PC people- Scott Hennen and his stable of neo-cons, they're gonna show the gov't who's boss, problem is the NCAA is a club, not the gov'tAnti UND people - who want to do us harmThose that don't realize the harm that it will do. Any guesses out there on % of petition signers that fall into each category? I support the petition process and I don't fit into anyone of those groups, especially #2 "neo-con" reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewey Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 They both have a right to an opinion. But I would believe that Mr. O'Keefe's opinion is based on better quality information than Mr. Black Cloud's. Frank is a sharp, sharp guy. Who's opinion is based upon better quality information? Keep in mind Frank BC has been privy to a lot more on the native american side of this (multi-state wide) than Tim O'Keefe and possesses a perspective validated by FOIA responses. Not trying to engage in a who's smarter than whom argument but Frank BC is not an uninformed ninny by any means.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watchmaker49 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Frank is a sharp, sharp guy. Who's opinion is based upon better quality information? Keep in mind Frank BC has been privy to a lot more on the native american side of this (multi-state wide) than Tim O'Keefe and possesses a perspective validated by FOIA responses. Not trying to engage in a who's smarter than whom argument but Frank BC is not an uninformed ninny by any means.. You know this how? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SooToo Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Frank is a sharp, sharp guy. Who's opinion is based upon better quality information? Keep in mind Frank BC has been privy to a lot more on the native american side of this (multi-state wide) than Tim O'Keefe and possesses a perspective validated by FOIA responses. Not trying to engage in a who's smarter than whom argument but Frank BC is not an uninformed ninny by any means.. I'm not sure "the Native American side" is particularly pertinent at this time. There was an agreement between UND and the NCAA requiring approval from tribal governments at Spirit Lake and Standing Rock; no such approval was received from the SR government, and UND can no longer cling to the nickname without serious and wide-ranging consequences. You can bet O'Keefe is well aware of potential damage; Mr. Black Cloud may be a bright guy, but he has absolutely no insight into the risks facing UND on both the athletic and academic fronts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Frank is a sharp, sharp guy. Who's opinion is based upon better quality information? Keep in mind Frank BC has been privy to a lot more on the native american side of this (multi-state wide) than Tim O'Keefe and possesses a perspective validated by FOIA responses. Not trying to engage in a who's smarter than whom argument but Frank BC is not an uninformed ninny by any means.. I agree with what SooToo said. Also, there doesn't always seem to be a good understanding of all the FOIA information. Just because you have the information doesn't mean you know how that works within the world of college athletics. For example, UND has signed the contracts to be a full member of the Big Sky is a fact. But it is also a fact that they have not met all of the requirements to reach that status, like becoming full members of NCAA Division I or paying the full entry fee. Therefore UND is not a full, voting member of the Big Sky at this time, unlike what Mr. Black Cloud claims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 When it comes to tribal issues, I'll listen to Frank Black Cloud. He's on the inside of the tribes. When it comes to UND issues, I'll listen to Tim O'Keefe. He's on the inside of UND and paid to look out for UND first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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