Conference Realignments - Take 2

[SiouxVolley]

22 minutes ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

I am sold, you do see the future! 
He also mentioned there is chatter about both of your sentences less UST. I was just a little ski-dish to mention all that at once, but there it is.
+ it would take a few years.
+ there is plenty of talent around the country for more teams.
+ scheduling would include mostly short trips.

Crookston would probably have the most financial hurdles of the above, but Crookston does have a state built arena now, but they should add women’s lax rather than WIH.  Mary and Minot St are inevitable.  UST would probably be snatched by the NCHC if they get off to a good start.  Augie could be a formidable hockey school if they really wanted it.

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

32 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

Crookston would probably have the most financial hurdles of the above, but Crookston does have a state built arena now, but they should add women’s lax rather than WIH.  Mary and Minot St are inevitable.  UST would probably be snatched by the NCHC if they get off to a good start.  Augie could be a formidable hockey school if they really wanted it.

Supposedly an outside firm did an overall study of Crookston (which was done through the direction of the U Mn system) and came up with a few academic and one athletic recommendations. Hockey was high on the radar.

Mary Holz-Clause, Ph.D., began her tenure as chancellor of the University of Minnesota Crookston on June 30, 2017. She is behind this recommendation and is forming the local hockey committee.  She would be willing to hire a hockey coach/s this fall, when/if to field a team/s would be on the committee's table. 

[southpaw]

On 4/18/2019 at 4:24 AM, SiouxVolley said:

The  Pioneer Press has a story about no one in the MIAC wants to talk.  All the other schools don’t want to open their traps because the premise of kicking out UST is a lie.  UST wants to advance in divisions.

https://www.twincities.com/2019/04/17/somebody-in-the-miac-wants-st-thomas-out-nobody-in-the-miac-want-to-talk-about-it/

The PR nightmare these MIAC schools allegedly voluntarily took on to help UST is honorable. Why aren't any news outlets reporting on this lie? You know about it, so surely someone else does. 

[NDSU grad]

10 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

Crookston would probably have the most financial hurdles of the above, but Crookston does have a state built arena now, but they should add women’s lax rather than WIH.  Mary and Minot St are inevitable.  UST would probably be snatched by the NCHC if they get off to a good start.  Augie could be a formidable hockey school if they really wanted it.

Minot St. would support D1 hockey, but they would need a lot of private donor money and institutional funds if they really wanted to compete.  The new Pepsi Rink only holds about 1800; they could fill that up most nights with a D1 schedule but that obviously limits the revenue potential.   

[nodak651]

12 hours ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

Supposedly an outside firm did an overall study of Crookston (which was done through the direction of the U Mn system) and came up with a few academic and one athletic recommendations. Hockey was high on the radar.

Mary Holz-Clause, Ph.D., began her tenure as chancellor of the University of Minnesota Crookston on June 30, 2017. She is behind this recommendation and is forming the local hockey committee.  She would be willing to hire a hockey coach/s this fall, when/if to field a team/s would be on the committee's table. 

You're being sarcastic, right?  Or would they play a d3 schedule like a few of the D2 teams out east do?

[Siouxperfan7]

St Thomas isn't going D2.  They are in great position to move straight to D1.  Summit League for all sports, Pioneer League for football (if they want to still have it).  Not trying to make crazy SiouxVolley type predictions, but I really believe that this is their plan.

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

7 hours ago, nodak651 said:

You're being sarcastic, right?  Or would they play a d3 schedule like a few of the D2 teams out east do?

Sure, lower level hockey to start? Crookston dropped hockey a few years ago and had some club hockey since.

No sarcasm, this committee is already being formed. Lots to debate in this committee, only thing for sure is to talk about hockey.

[SiouxVolley]

7 hours ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

St Thomas isn't going D2.  They are in great position to move straight to D1.  Summit League for all sports, Pioneer League for football (if they want to still have it).  Not trying to make crazy SiouxVolley type predictions, but I really believe that this is their plan.

I don’t doubt that St Thomas will go DI, but they just need to abide by the NCAA rules first.

They might get into the Summit, but they would be soon headed for the MVC as soon as their transition is over.   The MVC is too prideful to ever take a DII school.  The MVC will eventually divide between football and private schools.  St Thomas would almost be the wealthiest school there.  The MVC wants in for the MSP market and UST will deliver that.

A second DI school in MSP would be worth a fortune.  Surprising that UST didn’t jump before when they wouldn’t have had a long DII transition and stay but could have preceded right to a DI transition.

[SiouxVolley]

18 hours ago, southpaw said:

The PR nightmare these MIAC schools allegedly voluntarily took on to help UST is honorable. Why aren't any news outlets reporting on this lie? You know about it, so surely someone else does. 

Because sports reporters don’t do fact checking anywhere with Presidents and there has been no deep state source within the MIAC that is talking.  Comey and others leaked a bunch of lies and those newspapers took his word for it like it was the Gospel.  Newspapers have rules against using rumors or truths that are generated by street people except for deep state lies.  

[SiouxVolley]

9 hours ago, NDSU grad said:

Minot St. would support D1 hockey, but they would need a lot of private donor money and institutional funds if they really wanted to compete.  The new Pepsi Rink only holds about 1800; they could fill that up most nights with a D1 schedule but that obviously limits the revenue potential.   

Is Pepsi Rink expandable?  Minot St, Mary, and Crookston would be better of as NAIA or DIII teams if it wasn’t for the fact that a DII can offer DI hockey.  Their losing in all other sports could be overcome by a DI hockey program.  But all three would probably need WIH too.

[NDSU grad]

2 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

Is Pepsi Rink expandable?  Minot St, Mary, and Crookston would be better of as NAIA or DIII teams if it wasn’t for the fact that a DII can offer DI hockey.  Their losing in all other sports could be overcome by a DI hockey program.  But all three would probably need WIH too.

Pretty sure it would be cost prohibitive to expand. Bound in on one side by the rest of the complex, and Burdick Expressway and Highway 2/52 Bypass on two other sides. It’s a nice little arena though. 

[Sioux>Bison]

5 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

Is Pepsi Rink expandable?  Minot St, Mary, and Crookston would be better of as NAIA or DIII teams if it wasn’t for the fact that a DII can offer DI hockey.  Their losing in all other sports could be overcome by a DI hockey program.  But all three would probably need WIH too.

They can play in the All Seasons as it holds about 5k (if they can work out an agreement with the management). Finding the money to fund it is the question .

[zonadub]

Understand the lower cost concept, but Summit doesn't sponsor men's VB. I guess that is what you mean. 
I think that cutting baseball was to set the stage to drop women's ice hockey, but feels short-sighted in light of UND's move to the autobid-sport-challenged Summit League. The loss of any one of several schools in the conference will be huge. Even the prospect of NDSU leaving can be argued, because they would jump if they get an invitation to another conference.
Unless your projections of a hybrid conference with the better Big Sky schools comes to fruition, the Summit has to be looking to bolster its membership with the likes of UMKC (soccer) and Northern Colorado (baseball and football, but there will likely be resistance to forming a football confer ence outside the MVFC). KC already left the Summit and Denver will likely oppose UNC, so those possibility of those additions feels remote. The Wisconsin schools are also a possibility, but unlikely.
It just seems that, historically, Douple and the Summit Presidents are recactionary, not proactive. The transient history of the conference is disconcerting until more than the core of the four Dakota schools add more stability among more members. It seems that there is talk every year about PUFW, ORU, Denver and even Omaha leaving or WIU closing. The Summit will always have this issue. Augustana will probably be added, St Thomas is several years away from D-I. Duluth, Mankato or any other D-II move-up will also have transition times. Will it have to become NCC 2.0 or can the Montanas really be convinced to form a Great North conference?

[SiouxVolley]

On 5/31/2019 at 7:59 AM, zonadub said:

Understand the lower cost concept, but Summit doesn't sponsor men's VB. I guess that is what you mean. 
I think that cutting baseball was to set the stage to drop women's ice hockey, but feels short-sighted in light of UND's move to the autobid-sport-challenged Summit League. The loss of any one of several schools in the conference will be huge. Even the prospect of NDSU leaving can be argued, because they would jump if they get an invitation to another conference.
Unless your projections of a hybrid conference with the better Big Sky schools comes to fruition, the Summit has to be looking to bolster its membership with the likes of UMKC (soccer) and Northern Colorado (baseball and football, but there will likely be resistance to forming a football confer ence outside the MVFC). KC already left the Summit and Denver will likely oppose UNC, so those possibility of those additions feels remote. The Wisconsin schools are also a possibility, but unlikely.
It just seems that, historically, Douple and the Summit Presidents are recactionary, not proactive. The transient history of the conference is disconcerting until more than the core of the four Dakota schools add more stability among more members. It seems that there is talk every year about PUFW, ORU, Denver and even Omaha leaving or WIU closing. The Summit will always have this issue. Augustana will probably be added, St Thomas is several years away from D-I. Duluth, Mankato or any other D-II move-up will also have transition times. Will it have to become NCC 2.0 or can the Montanas really be convinced to form a Great North conference?

It’s pretty simple as far as the sports alignment.  Either the Summit sponsors mbb and two other men’s teams sports, which right now are men’s soccer and baseball, or sponsors football and mbb like the Big Sky.  Sports like tennis, golf, track, x-country are not considered team sports but individual sports.

Baseball simply would have to poach limited MVC or Horizon teams as would men’s soccer.  Getting a DII school to move up would take five years, simply too much time, as the Summit is already at the bare minimum for those two sports.

Mens volleyball already has one school, but it’s PUFW, and their expected to be the first to leave.  The Minnesota High School association just missed approving men’s volleyball as a sport, but its expected to be approved later as there is support among Twin Cities schools.

Mens ice hockey would need three more teams, like the MSU group going DI or getting Arizona St to join with two other DI’s. 

SDSU and NDSU will insist upon baseball, even if they have to join the WAC or MVC as associate members.  Don’t see anyway the Dakotas start men’s soccer, as it would interfere with football and cause Title IX issues.

Getting six FCS schools or eight FBS is the only reasonable way for the Summit to survive according to the NCAA conference requirements for an autobid.

When ORU left for two years, ORU coming back was the only reason the conference survived as it contributed to both key sports and brought them back to the minimum.  They probably bribed ORU as the Summit didn’t have to release that info.

[SiouxVolley]

Lacrosse can’t get Denver to join, as they would leave the Summit first as they value the Big East affiliate membership so much.

All the Dakotas, Omaha and one other team would have to start men’s lax.

NDSU and SDSU baseball would get affiliate offers from the Horizon or maybe even the MVC because there is such a shortage.  The MVC had three teams in the baseball regionals and they all made the regional finals.

Denver would get an offer for men’s soccer from the WCC or MWC or maybe higher because there are a national power.  Omaha would get an offer from the WAC, MVC, or Horizon.

[Yote 53]

The simple solution is for South Dakota and/or North Dakota to restart their baseball programs.  They should both be making plans to do so right now.  It's the easiest, simplest path.  Nobody says the programs have to be any good either.  It can just be accepted that they would run bare bones, minimal programs to start with.

[nodak651]

5 hours ago, Yote 53 said:

The simple solution is for South Dakota and/or North Dakota to restart their baseball programs.  They should both be making plans to do so right now.  It's the easiest, simplest path.  Nobody says the programs have to be any good either.  It can just be accepted that they would run bare bones, minimal programs to start with.

I wish UND added baseball, but do you really think that would fly right now on UND's campus after women's hockey was cut?  I don't see why the Summit can't just take over the MVFC, and have affiliate membership with the MVC schools. 

[SiouxVolley]

29 minutes ago, nodak651 said:

I wish UND added baseball, but do you really think that would fly right now on UND's campus after women's hockey was cut?  I don't see why the Summit can't just take over the MVFC, and have affiliate membership with the MVC schools. 

The NCAA doesn't allow affiliate memberships for meeting the minimum number of football teams.  The MVC doesn't have the minimum number either, so baseball and men's soccer are critical to them too as a necessary qualification sport for the dance.  The second non major team sport can have one affiliate meeting the rules, hence EIU men's soccer qualifes.

[SiouxVolley]

5 hours ago, Yote 53 said:

The simple solution is for South Dakota and/or North Dakota to restart their baseball programs.  They should both be making plans to do so right now.  It's the easiest, simplest path.  Nobody says the programs have to be any good either.  It can just be accepted that they would run bare bones, minimal programs to start with.

This would have been done, simply cutting back the program, if new teams weren't expected for football.  

[SWSiouxMN]

5 hours ago, nodak651 said:

I wish UND added baseball, but do you really think that would fly right now on UND's campus after women's hockey was cut?  I don't see why the Summit can't just take over the MVFC, and have affiliate membership with the MVC schools. 

I'd argue a bigger issue would be on campus:  "So they would bend over backwards to bring back ATHLETIC programs, while my ACADEMIC department doesn't even get the same treatment" 

 

 

[The Sicatoka]

16 hours ago, SWSiouxMN said:

I'd argue a bigger issue would be on campus:  "So they would bend over backwards to bring back ATHLETIC programs, while my ACADEMIC department doesn't even get the same treatment" 

That would cause a mighty uproar. 

[the green team]

18 hours ago, SWSiouxMN said:

I'd argue a bigger issue would be on campus:  "So they would bend over backwards to bring back ATHLETIC programs, while my ACADEMIC department doesn't even get the same treatment" 

 

 

I agree with you. Living, working and owning a business in GF, I've gotten to know the most devoted sports fan to the "sports have no business at a University" people.   There isn't an incoming president, alive or resurrected from the grave, that will want to stir up the hornets nest that would start on campus.  My perspective, since the cuts...the anti sports segment have remained incredibly silent as they saw that there was a shared sacrifice (athletics had to cut too), as the evidence proved that segment incredibly wrong, where they incorrectly believed that Athletics, could do whatever they wanted.  Trust me, you will never hear anyone from that segment of campus admit that they were wrong.  That is not in their operating procedure.  But their silence will suffice in this instance.  So, I don't think you'll be seeing additions of any programs in the near term unless there is a grove of money trees discovered.  No President would want to wade into it.  IMHO

[Yote 53]

What if it meant the dissolution of the conference and ALL sports (except hockey and football) being negatively effected?  Let me spin this another way, every FEMALE sport would be greatly harmed if the Summit League lost it's autobid.  How would that play with a certain segment of the population?  Being in a conference without access to NCAA championships and NCAA payouts is going to cost more than the cost of adding one sport in order to stabilize the conference.  

[SWSiouxMN]

4 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

That would cause a mighty uproar. 

When I was at UND during the cuts that Schafer oversaw, my advisor had a great line that rang true. (I have mentioned this line a few times on this board).

"Every department on campus thinks they are the most important thing on campus, so they are not going to want to cut anything"

2 hours ago, the green team said:

I agree with you. Living, working and owning a business in GF, I've gotten to know the most devoted sports fan to the "sports have no business at a University" people.   There isn't an incoming president, alive or resurrected from the grave, that will want to stir up the hornets nest that would start on campus.  My perspective, since the cuts...the anti sports segment have remained incredibly silent as they saw that there was a shared sacrifice (athletics had to cut too), as the evidence proved that segment incredibly wrong, where they incorrectly believed that Athletics, could do whatever they wanted.  Trust me, you will never hear anyone from that segment of campus admit that they were wrong.  That is not in their operating procedure.  But their silence will suffice in this instance.  So, I don't think you'll be seeing additions of any programs in the near term unless there is a grove of money trees discovered.  No President would want to wade into it.  IMHO

I think this is what certain supporters of the cut athletic programs do not understand. 

 

[jdub27]

13 minutes ago, Yote 53 said:

What if it meant the dissolution of the conference and ALL sports (except hockey and football) being negatively effected?  Let me spin this another way, every FEMALE sport would be greatly harmed if the Summit League lost it's autobid.  How would that play with a certain segment of the population?  Being in a conference without access to NCAA championships and NCAA payouts is going to cost more than the cost of adding one sport in order to stabilize the conference.  

Just for perspective, there were people that already tried to slap UND with a Title IX lawsuit after WIH was cut (despite them being the most in balance of all the Dakota schools). The uproar to add back just baseball would further that agenda even though I believe UND would still be well within compliance. To offset it, they would almost have to add back women's sport, which theoretically should be S&D but everyone knows how the conversation would realistically go.