mksioux Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 You're trying to change your original post. Here it is for reference: One thing that is certain is that UND wouldn't do to NDSU what Georgia Southern, Montana, and Montana State did. It would be political armageddon if UND or NDSU ever bought out a home-and-home game with the other. I simply noted that nothing in UND's history should lead a reasonable person to believe that they would not do to NDSU what GSU and MSU did, because of political fallout. That is, cancel the return game of a home and home series. Everything else you've added outside of your original post. So what if it was outside of my original post? There are multiple reasons UND wouldn't back out of a home-and-home agreement with NDSU. I cited just one reason in my original post. I didn't think to cite all the other obvious reasons because I didn't think the idea was all that controversial. I guess I momentarily forgot Bison fans' long memories and their prolonged and sustaining paranoia when it comes to all things UND. My bad. And, strictly from a political fallout standpoint, I still think you fail to understand there is a big difference between not agreeing to enter into a contract in the first place and exercising a cancellation clause in an existing contract, screwing over a fellow NDUS institution in the process. The latter is much more likely to cause political fireworks. But like I said, that's just one reason. The bottom line is that, for multiple reasons, UND simply wouldn't do it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxperman8 Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Ummm, correct me if I'm wrong, but Gene Taylor sent a 4 year contract to Roger Thomas back in 2002, refusing to sign that contract, and thereby ending a 100-year rivalry, certainly would be exactly the sort of thing that could cause PR damage to the UND athletic department. If he had been concerned about PR damage, he most certainly would have signed the contract and played the games. the reason we didn't want to play is because it would have hurt our chances of making the playoffs even if we kicked your tails - which we were doing regularly back them. You already know that but refuse to accept that fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothmog Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 So what if it was outside of my original post? There are multiple reasons UND wouldn't back out of a home-and-home agreement with NDSU. I cited just one reason in my original post. I didn't think to cite all the other obvious reasons because I didn't think the idea was all that controversial. I guess I momentarily forgot Bison fans' long memories and their prolonged and sustaining paranoia when it comes to all things UND. My bad. And, strictly from a political fallout standpoint, I still think you fail to understand there is a big difference between not agreeing to enter into a contract in the first place and exercising a cancellation clause in an existing contract, screwing over a fellow NDUS institution in the process. The latter is much more likely to cause political fireworks. But like I said, that's just one reason. The bottom line is that, for multiple reasons, UND simply wouldn't do it. Sure, the two situations are different. But your original post is wrong, NDSU cannot simply trust that UND would not cancel a future scheduled game, for whatever reason, simply because the resulting PR and political firestorm would not be worth it. They've already shown that they are willing to take that risk. So, scheduling UND is not a way for NDSU to eliminate the possibilty that they will need to find a replacement team late in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxperfan7 Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Again, I didn't compare UND's decision to turn down NDSU's offer of a 4-game home and home series to MSU's cancelling the 2013 game. I simply suggested that UND's past behavior (including turning down the 4 game series) indicates that they wouldn't be terribly concerned about the PR damage of cancelling a game with the Bison. So its UND that has to worry about PR damage to its football team...doh'kay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothmog Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 the reason we didn't want to play is because it would have hurt our chances of making the playoffs even if we kicked your tails - which we were doing regularly back them. You already know that but refuse to accept that fact. Doesn't matter what you think the reasons are. The OP referenced the political and PR costs. In any case, that argument turned out to be false. Scheduling NDSU would not have hurt UND's playoff chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothmog Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 So its UND that has to worry about PR damage to its football team...doh'kay Hey, I didn't bring up PR (actually politics) in the first place. UND can schedule whomever it wants. Just don't tell that me NDSU should schedule UND because UND would never cancel a game. That's silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonadub Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Sure, the two situations are different. But your original post is wrong, NDSU cannot simply trust that UND would not cancel a future scheduled game, for whatever reason, simply because the resulting PR and political firestorm would not be worth it. They've already shown that they are willing to take that risk. So, scheduling UND is not a way for NDSU to eliminate the possibilty that they will need to find a replacement team late in the process. Since there is no way that NDSU would travel on the front end of a home and home with UND, this statement is absurd. In fact, if there is any possible way your scenario could happen, it is UND that would have to be concerned about NDSU backing out of the home and home, not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDvince97-01 Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Hey, I didn't bring up PR (actually politics) in the first place. UND can schedule whomever it wants. Just don't tell that me NDSU should schedule UND because UND would never cancel a game. That's silly. No, it's not actually smart guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Five Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 It could scream.........that extra cash in the budget will do wonders for our program. Bison Dan has been the only person that sounded like he knew how much the SMU contract was worth. Still waiting for him to respond with the numbers. Kolpack tweeted this weekend that after the $100K, the money they get from (presumably) SMU...then minus expenses of various nature it will likely be close to a wash with barely a financial gain. Why shouldn't Bison fans be mad? Bail out in February is a bush move. As a season ticket holder, I am a PO'd. This was a very good season opener at home. Now we will be stuck with some crap opener I'm sure. I'll show up for the banner raising and head back to the lot at halftime I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxperman8 Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Doesn't matter what you think the reasons are. The OP referenced the political and PR costs. In any case, that argument turned out to be false. Scheduling NDSU would not have hurt UND's playoff chances. it is absolutely a fact that it would have hurt our playoff chances when the contract was proposed. SU missed the playoffs the previous year because of a game they won against Montana. The rules changed later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothmog Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Since there is no way that NDSU would travel on the front end of a home and home with UND, this statement is absurd. In fact, if there is any possible way your scenario could happen, it is UND that would have to be concerned about NDSU backing out of the home and home, not the other way around. You're assuming a 2 game home and home. That is not what anyone has talked about, nor is it likely to be what ends up getting signed, if anything ever does. We'll see what happens. But don't suggest scheduling UND as a way for NDSU to eliminate the possiblilty of a cancelled game. It's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-1 Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Kolpack tweeted this weekend that after the $100K, the money they get from (presumably) SMU...then minus expenses of various nature it will likely be close to a wash with barely a financial gain. Why shouldn't Bison fans be mad? Bail out in February is a bush move. As a season ticket holder, I am a PO'd. This was a very good season opener at home. Now we will be stuck with some crap opener I'm sure. I'll show up for the banner raising and head back to the lot at halftime I suppose. Please explain how it will be a "wash"? If they get 350k to go down there - that leaves about 135k left over after spending 100k on the charter, 100k on buyout and 15k for miscellaneous cost. If they are only getting 300k, then they make 85K. Profit is profit and that can pay for alot of things in recruiting, jerseys, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodcon Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Kolpack tweeted this weekend that after the $100K, the money they get from (presumably) SMU...then minus expenses of various nature it will likely be close to a wash with barely a financial gain. Why shouldn't Bison fans be mad? Bail out in February is a bush move. As a season ticket holder, I am a PO'd. This was a very good season opener at home. Now we will be stuck with some crap opener I'm sure. I'll show up for the banner raising and head back to the lot at halftime I suppose. I don't know about that, I doubt if NDSU was picking up any of MSU's travel expenses but SMU might, Tennessee payed a good chunk of Montana's last year. What other expenses are different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homer Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Kolpack tweeted this weekend that after the $100K, the money they get from (presumably) SMU...then minus expenses of various nature it will likely be close to a wash with barely a financial gain. Why shouldn't Bison fans be mad? Bail out in February is a bush move. As a season ticket holder, I am a PO'd. This was a very good season opener at home. Now we will be stuck with some crap opener I'm sure. I'll show up for the banner raising and head back to the lot at halftime I suppose. I'm not saying you shouldn't be mad. I just think to write off any financial aspect of the SMU game is strange when absolutely no one knows how much they are being paid. So Kolpack knows the price? I've yet to see it printed. Lets say they make $250,000 after paying the $100,000 and their travel costs. Is that a bad deal? A month from now who outside of Fargo is going to remember MSU bought out this game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Hey, I didn't bring up PR (actually politics) in the first place. UND can schedule whomever it wants. Just don't tell that me NDSU should schedule UND because UND would never cancel a game. That's silly. Again, when has UND cancelled a game? Not signing a contract is not the same as executing a buyout (agreed to by both sides) or cancelling a game. Even you should be able to comprehend that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothmog Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 it is absolutely a fact that it would have hurt our playoff chances when the contract was proposed. SU missed the playoffs the previous year because of a game they won against Montana. The rules changed later. It couldn't have hurt your chances when the contract was proposed ... it was proposed during the offseason. However, as it turned out, by the time the playoffs actually came around, it would not have hurt your chances. That's why I used the words "turned out to be false." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksioux Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 You're assuming a 2 game home and home. That is not what anyone has talked about, nor is it likely to be what ends up getting signed, if anything ever does. We'll see what happens. But don't suggest scheduling UND as a way for NDSU to eliminate the possiblilty of a cancelled game. It's not. You know, you might be on to something. Maybe UND has been publicly lobbying to get the series resumed just so that it can turn around and cancel the series again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothmog Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Again, when has UND cancelled a game? Not signing a contract is not the same as executing a buyout (agreed to by both sides) or cancelling a game. Even you should be able to comprehend that. Again, who said they did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 He's saying that by refusing to schedule NDSU after NDSU moved up to DI in 2003, UND has shown it is willing to take a PR hit when it comes to not playing NDSU. That is apparently the evidence UND would cancel the back-end of a home-and-home agreement with NDSU if given the chance. I would change it to "could cancel", but you're essentially correct. Well as far as I know, the only contracted game between the two schools that was ever cancelled, was a baseball game that was to be played in 2006 that NDSU cancelled. So using your criteria, NDSU is the school with a track record for not honoring commitments. Perhaps Montana should think long and hard about coming to Fargo next year, because a return game from the Bison may not be a sure thing. History seems to suggest that NDSU has a propensity to opt out of contracted games with regional schools. I don't think one can really point to any instances where UND has done the same. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homer Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Ummm, correct me if I'm wrong, but Gene Taylor sent a 4 year contract to Roger Thomas back in 2002, refusing to sign that contract, and thereby ending a 100-year rivalry, certainly would be exactly the sort of thing that could cause PR damage to the UND athletic department. If he had been concerned about PR damage, he most certainly would have signed the contract and played the games. Hasn't Gene Taylor refused to sign contracts since 2002? Is he not concerned about the same PR damage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothmog Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 You know, you might be on to something. Maybe UND has been publicly lobbying to get the series resumed just so that it can turn around and cancel the series again. I have no idea what UND might do in the future. I only know what they have done in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothmog Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Well as far as I know, the only contracted game between the two schools that was ever cancelled, was a baseball game that was to be played in 2006 that NDSU cancelled. So using your criteria, NDSU is the school with a track record for not honoring commitments. Perhaps Montana should think long and hard about coming to Fargo next year, because a return game from the Bison may not be a sure thing. History seems to suggest that NDSU has a propensity to opt out of contracted games with regional schools. I don't think one can really point to any instances where UND has done the same. Oh, good grief. You're really grasping for straws now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothmog Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Hasn't Gene Taylor refused to sign contracts since 2002? Is he not concerned about the same PR damage? Not after promising that we would sign them and then sitting on them for months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksioux Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I have no idea what UND might do in the future. I only know what they have done in the past. You're right. UND is too much of a risk. NDSU should stick with safer bets...like the Montana schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Fargo U is embarassing the whole state. This is just one on a long list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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